Rents are basically non-negotiable!

Monife

Lease is up at the end of August and we have decided we want to move closer to hubby's work as he has no car (and I do). I work in Swords and he works in Santry. We are ideally looking to rent a 2 bed in Northwood as that is walking distance for him (and he does shift work). Most rents are starting from €900 upwards. Have viewed a few places.

One place was listed at €900 and the guy said there is absolutely no budging on that. Another 2 places were listed as €920 and they said their rock bottom price would be €900, wtf a measly €20 discount! And another we viewed for €950 said there was no budging on that and that there are others interested so it will definitely go for that.

We both earn a low enough wage and if we were to rent somewhere for €900/950 it would be about a third of our joint earnings. The maximum we wanted to spend was €850 but it doesn't look like we'll get more than a box for that.

It just sickens me that the same apartments in Northwood have an asking price of €125,000-€175,000, so if we had the money for a deposit, we would have a mortgage paid off in around 15 or 20 years if we were paying it back at €950/month.

Has anyone else experience in haggling rents? What are other areas like for haggling? And why are rents still so high and why is there basically no wiggle room at all?

fasttalkerchat

If you make €2,700 per month between you you wouldn't get a mortgage. Are both of you from Dublin originally? Its impossible to have a decent home for that money there.

athtrasna

A lot of landlords seem to be advertising their bottom line rent in order to get viewings. They could add €50 to the advertised price with a view to taking it off in negotiations but that wouldn't get them so many enquiries. It's a toughie on both sides, but there shouldn't be an automatic assumption that rents are negotiable.

UDP

Rents in Dublin haven't really come down in the last year and there is still a large pool of renters out there.

miller50841

The rental market is crazy here the demand to rent has risen which means the prices follow suit.

Some of the dumps they charge big money on.
I got caught out in my last place was the same as living in a shed drafts, mould and huge problems.

If the rent allowance scam was stopped rents would come down but that would hurt too many politicians and their friends so don't think will ever happen unless IMF steps in.

Best of luck in getting somewhere

nibtrix

Monife wrote: »

It just sickens me that the same apartments in Northwood have an asking price of €125,000-€175,000, so if we had the money for a deposit, we would have a mortgage paid off in around 15 or 20 years if we were paying it back at €950/month.

Has anyone else experience in haggling rents? What are other areas like for haggling? And why are rents still so high and why is there basically no wiggle room at all?

Just because the asking price is low now doesn't mean it was low a few years ago when the owners bought them. They may have a mortgage of €950 pm or even more and can't drop the price. There are plenty of renters out there at the moment and probably they'll get their €950 quickly enough.

Monife

nibtrix wrote: »

Just because the asking price is low now doesn't mean it was low a few years ago when the owners bought them. They may have a mortgage of €950 pm or even more and can't drop the price.

That is not really my problem. Aren't rents suppose to be based on the market value of the house (and some sort of calculation that I do not know)? Correct me if I am wrong.

miller50841

Monife wrote: »

That is not really my problem. Aren't rents suppose to be based on the market value of the house (and some sort of calculation that I do not know)? Correct me if I am wrong.

They are ment to fall in line with the current market price of that particular area and property size.

But honestly way too high

athtrasna

Monife wrote: »

That is not really my problem.

But your income is the problem of the potential landlord? If they set a rent and can get someone to pay it, then formulas don't matter. You said yourself that most rents start from €900 so it would indicate that €900 is at the lower end of the market in that area, yet you only want to pay €850??

The apartments in Northwood offer convenience for companies in the industrial estate & retail park (which is one of the bigger combined ones in the Dublin area) as well as Ikea and the M50. There is going to be a premium on rents there compared to less convenient locations.

war_child

If i were you i would consider a house share with a weekend tenant, take on a house, would work out cheaper than the high price SO CALLED apartments go fornow adays...plus if u take on someone unemployed your garanteed the rent instead of takin on an employed person ..just a fact now

Ive just made the move with my partner to a 3 bedroom house in waterford for 550 a month , so der is accomodation out der u just have to keep ur eyes open ...

Good look with your search i hope u get what ur looking for

borderlinemeath

I have a rental property that I just let out last week and I put it on daft at the market value, ie I looked at other properties in the area and priced it accordingly. I am lucky enough to be in the position that the price I looked for is more than the mortgage and the tax return but the same can't be said for all landlords. If the monthly outgoing is higher than the rental income the majority of landlords in that position would try and get the best price for the property and more than likely not budge on the price.

I suppose if I didn't have a good response I would have been open to some negotiation but the phone never stopped ringing and I took it off daft after less than 24hrs and I had the pick of tenants. (and no, I didn't ask for more than the asking price;))

kdowling

Monife wrote: »

That is not really my problem. Aren't rents suppose to be based on the market value of the house (and some sort of calculation that I do not know)? Correct me if I am wrong.

Formula???
It people are willing to pay €1500/month they will be set at that price, if people are only to pay €600 they will be set at that price.

Someone may have come up with a formula as a guide but the market will decide the price.
Lots of renters out there = high price
Not many renters= low price
Simples!

fasttalkerchat

kdowling wrote: »

Formula???
It people are willing to pay €1500/month they will be set at that price, if people are only to pay €600 they will be set at that price.

Someone may have come up with a formula as a guide but the market will decide the price.
Lots of renters out there = high price
Not many renters= low price
Simples!

It's not quite that simple. If I'm struggling to find a three bedroom house in Belfast I won't decide to pay €2,000 for a 1 bedroom flat in Galway.
It depends on demand for a certain area, size, furnished/unfirnished etc. Then there is the relate costs of living 10 km down the road etc.

Chazz Michael Michaels

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

kdowling wrote: »

Formula???
It people are willing to pay €1500/month they will be set at that price, if people are only to pay €600 they will be set at that price.

Someone may have come up with a formula as a guide but the market will decide the price.
Lots of renters out there = high price
Not many renters= low price
Simples!

It's not quite that simple. If I'm struggling to find a three bedroom house in Belfast I won't decide to pay €2,000 for a 1 bedroom flat in Galway.
It depends on demand for a certain area, size, furnished/unfirnished etc. Then there is the relate costs of living 10 km down the road etc.

Yes, as the person you responded to said, the price is set at the equilibirum of supply and demand. Or less technically, what people are willing to pay versus what people are willing to sell for. Same as just about every other good, asset and service on the planet. Leaving cert economics. Simples.

ceadaoin.

We managed to knock 300 euros off the monthly rent by signing a 2 year lease instead of one for a year. Got a beautiful house in a great area at a bargain price I think. A house the exact same as ours came up for rent recently in the same development for 1000 euro more a month than what we pay so delighted with what we got!

The agents for most of the other places we viewed said that a longer lease would help the landlord to be more open to negotiation. Could this be an option for you?

murphaph

ceadaoin. wrote: »

We managed to knock 300 euros off the monthly rent by signing a 2 year lease instead of one for a year. Got a beautiful house in a great area at a bargain price I think. A house the exact same as ours came up for rent recently in the same development for 1000 euro more a month than what we pay so delighted with what we got!

The agents for most of the other places we viewed said that a longer lease would help the landlord to be more open to negotiation. Could this be an option for you?

To be honest your landlord was a bit naive there. A lease is useful for the tenant and offers security of tenure. To a landlord however it really offers very little protection. If a tenant breaks a lease, going after them for the lost rent is an expensive and mostly fruitless process that just makes the legal profession richer.

Are you really paying €1000 a month less than comparable properties? It must be a very expensive area to allow such discrepancies in rent!

Monife

ceadaoin. wrote: »

We managed to knock 300 euros off the monthly rent by signing a 2 year lease instead of one for a year. Got a beautiful house in a great area at a bargain price I think. A house the exact same as ours came up for rent recently in the same development for 1000 euro more a month than what we pay so delighted with what we got!

The agents for most of the other places we viewed said that a longer lease would help the landlord to be more open to negotiation. Could this be an option for you?

We are looking for a long term let and have told prospective landlords/agents this. Still no budging though.

stargazer 68

Problem is OP you are confining yourself to a particular place. There are almost 15 2 bed places for rent in Swords that are in your budget. You will have to decide which is more important - the cost or your bf being able to walk to work!

Zulu

As a landlord, I advertise @ the value of the property. I was a little taken aback by one potential tenant who maintained he simply would not rent without a discount. I explained I've advertised straight up. It was in better condition than anyone property in the area for the same rent - to which he agreed on, but he felt he needed to feel like he was getting a bargain.

I don't quite understand the problem. Surly it's good to know that the landlord is offering your their lowest price? Either the service they provide (the property) is worth it or it isn't? And if you can't afford it, well, you need to scale back your expectations.

juan.kerr

OP, if you can't afford the rent there then you can't afford it. Look elsewhere.

Snakeblood

Zulu wrote: »

As a landlord, I advertise @ the value of the property. I was a little taken aback by one potential tenant who maintained he simply would not rent without a discount. I explained I've advertised straight up. It was in better condition than anyone property in the area for the same rent - to which he agreed on, but he felt he needed to feel like he was getting a bargain.

I don't quite understand the problem. Surly it's good to know that the landlord is offering your their lowest price? Either the service they provide (the property) is worth it or it isn't? And if you can't afford it, well, you need to scale back your expectations.

Why would you be taken aback though? Many landlords do negotiate, many don't. If you did negotiate as a rule, and he didn't try, he'd be pretty dumb.

Cuddlesworth

Try using the property bee plugin for firefox. It should help you identify property's that have been up for rent for a long time. I do that to view overpriced property's that have been up for a long time little interest to get them at a steal. If your going to have to pay 950 a month because rent allowance provides a bottom end rent scale, pay 950 a month for somewhere nice.

Zulu

Snakeblood wrote: »

Why would you be taken aback though?

Apologies, I left that rather crucial part out of the post - sorry. I was taken aback because after he'd agreed it was the nicest for that price, agreed it was good value, told me he wouldn't be interested unless I did him a deal. Apparently people "from west cork like a deal like" and he "couldn't be paying the asking, that wouldn't be a deal at all". Seemed to me he'd have preferred I advertise it for more, and then knock a bit off.

I'd rather get people through the door & let it sell itself on it's own merits.

murphaph

The whole negotiation thing is annoying. In Germany the advertised price is the landlord's best price-no negotiation required: you can afford it or you can't.

murphaph

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Try using the property bee plugin for firefox. It should help you identify property's that have been up for rent for a long time. I do that to view overpriced property's that have been up for a long time little interest to get them at a steal. If your going to have to pay 950 a month because rent allowance provides a bottom end rent scale, pay 950 a month for somewhere nice.

Some landlords reuse the same Daft ad over and over, just changing the pictures/description to save a new posting fee. The original posting date may well be meaningless.

Snakeblood

murphaph wrote: »

The whole negotiation thing is annoying. In Germany the advertised price is the landlord's best price-no negotiation required: you can afford it or you can't.

yeah, I prefer that method myself

@Zulu: that makes more sense, sorry. I couldn't see a problem before. I suppose some people think everyone negotiates. I hate it myself.

Snakeblood

murphaph wrote: »

Some landlords reuse the same Daft ad over and over, just changing the pictures/description to save a new posting fee. The original posting date may well be meaningless.

It'd be a different address though. Property Bee looks at the address as well and notes what has changed, picture, description etc, and shows you the differences clearly. Its' very useful.

Camo22

it's a joke, much cheaper now if you have a mortage -

juan.kerr

Camo22 wrote: »

it's a joke, much cheaper now if you have a mortage -

Maybe, until interest rates go up in a few years...

UDP

murphaph wrote: »

The whole negotiation thing is annoying. In Germany the advertised price is the landlord's best price-no negotiation required: you can afford it or you can't.

Then again the german rental market is regulated properly.

markpb

juan.kerr wrote: »

Maybe, until interest rates go up in a few years...

And property tax comes along.

ceadaoin.

murphaph wrote: »

To be honest your landlord was a bit naive there. A lease is useful for the tenant and offers security of tenure. To a landlord however it really offers very little protection. If a tenant breaks a lease, going after them for the lost rent is an expensive and mostly fruitless process that just makes the legal profession richer.

Are you really paying €1000 a month less than comparable properties? It must be a very expensive area to allow such discrepancies in rent!

It's Ballsbridge so it is expensive, we actually thought we wouldn't be able to find anywhere we could afford. Our rent is €2000 a month, this other place which is an identical house (and actually not as nice decor wise) was advertised on Daft for €3000.

mikemac1

murphaph wrote: »

The whole negotiation thing is annoying. In Germany the advertised price is the landlord's best price-no negotiation required: you can afford it or you can't.

The landlord bargained with the bank, haggled with tradesmen, haggled over furniture, haggled for the best insurance deal

Of course a viewer is going to have a go

sunnysoutheast

ceadaoin. wrote: »

murphaph wrote: »

To be honest your landlord was a bit naive there. A lease is useful for the tenant and offers security of tenure. To a landlord however it really offers very little protection. If a tenant breaks a lease, going after them for the lost rent is an expensive and mostly fruitless process that just makes the legal profession richer.

Are you really paying €1000 a month less than comparable properties? It must be a very expensive area to allow such discrepancies in rent!

It's Ballsbridge so it is expensive, we actually thought we wouldn't be able to find anywhere we could afford. Our rent is €2000 a month, this other place which is an identical house (and actually not as nice decor wise) was advertised on Daft for €3000.

Maybe they negotiated it down to 2000! :-)

January

Five minutes down the road and still in walking distance (or a short bus hop away by the 17a) is Santry Cross which is within your budget.

http://www.daft.ie/searchrental.daft?id=1211768

http://www.daft.ie/searchrental.daft?id=1235564

http://www.daft.ie/searchrental.daft?id=1236203

Actually, do you know what... just have a look here

Milk & Honey

Zulu wrote: »

Apologies, I left that rather crucial part out of the post - sorry. I was taken aback because after he'd agreed it was the nicest for that price, agreed it was good value, told me he wouldn't be interested unless I did him a deal. Apparently people "from west cork like a deal like" and he "couldn't be paying the asking, that wouldn't be a deal at all". Seemed to me he'd have preferred I advertise it for more, and then knock a bit off.

I'd rather get people through the door & let it sell itself on it's own merits.

The same thing happens with cars. Some people prefer to pay a higher price for cars and get a higher trade in. Mathematically it is the same thing but that is the way some people are. one manufacturer tried straight pricing a few years ago and had to stop because people felt they weren't getting enough for the trade ins!

Catweasel

Monife wrote: »

That is not really my problem. Aren't rents suppose to be based on the market value of the house (and some sort of calculation that I do not know)? Correct me if I am wrong.

I think you are referring to the fact that rents and market values of houses are usually correlated. The yield (i.e. rent) normally represents between 4 and 7% of the market value depending on who you listen to. This was not the case in Ireland over the boom years which was a red flag about house prices. Yields are in correction mode at the moment.

In Ireland, rents are more stable and visible than sales prices so it is easier to work out the fair market value from the rent than vice versa.

Edit. Just looking at your figures in the opening post, the apartmentments seem to be trading at 6-9% yields, which may not be untypical at the moment considering the poor sales market for apartments and comparing to Allsops auction sales yields.

gurramok

January wrote: »

Five minutes down the road and still in walking distance (or a short bus hop away by the 17a) is Santry Cross which is within your budget.

http://www.daft.ie/searchrental.daft?id=1211768

http://www.daft.ie/searchrental.daft?id=1235564

http://www.daft.ie/searchrental.daft?id=1236203

Actually, do you know what... just have a look here

To be fair, Santry Cross is not really Santry. Its a different world than Northwood, I wouldn't live in Santry Cross if it was free.

juan.kerr

gurramok wrote: »

To be fair, Santry Cross is not really Santry. Its a different world than Northwood, I wouldn't live in Santry Cross if it was free.

'To be fair', it sounds like the OP may not be able to afford to live in Santry so January has made a legitimate alternative suggestion.

If the OP doesn't wish to live in Santry Cross then it seems like they will have to pay more they they budgeted for to live where they want to live.

January

gurramok wrote: »

To be fair, Santry Cross is not really Santry. Its a different world than Northwood, I wouldn't live in Santry Cross if it was free.

To be fair, I've lived in two apartments in Santry Cross and you don't have the trouble you would have in Ballymun. You're out of the way of everything and it's a two minute drive to Northwood and the shops that are at Gullivers retail park. OP can't afford to live in Northwood, Santry Cross (especially the side that's gated, where the Metro Hotel is) is a good alternative.

Sea Filly

kdowling wrote: »

Formula???
It people are willing to pay €1500/month they will be set at that price, if people are only to pay €600 they will be set at that price.

Someone may have come up with a formula as a guide but the market will decide the price.
Lots of renters out there = high price
Not many renters= low price
Simples!

Chazz Michael Michaels wrote: »

Yes, as the person you responded to said, the price is set at the equilibirum of supply and demand. Or less technically, what people are willing to pay versus what people are willing to sell for. Same as just about every other good, asset and service on the planet. Leaving cert economics. Simples.

Oh God, stop saying 'simples', people!

Sea Filly

OP, do you absolutely need two bedrooms? If location is important, why not look for a one bed?

Monife

Just to give you all an update. We viewed a lovely apartment last night for €950. They said they couldn't budge on that. We said we would phone them the next evening. Phoned them this evening and told them we loved the apartment but can't afford more than €900. They said they were impressed by us and really liked us and think good tenants are more important than price and agreed to €900 per month.

Absolutely over the moon

Snakeblood

Monife wrote: »

Just to give you all an update. We viewed a lovely apartment last night for €950. They said they couldn't budge on that. We said we would phone them the next evening. Phoned them this evening and told them we loved the apartment but can't afford more than €900. They said they were impressed by us and really liked us and think good tenants are more important than price and agreed to €900 per month.

Absolutely over the moon

Time to change the thread title! Congrats!

athtrasna

Monife wrote: »

...Most rents are starting from €900 upwards. Have viewed a few places.

One place was listed at €900 and the guy said there is absolutely no budging on that. Another 2 places were listed as €920 and they said their rock bottom price would be €900, wtf a measly €20 discount! And another we viewed for €950 said there was no budging on that and that there are others interested so it will definitely go for that.

We both earn a low enough wage and if we were to rent somewhere for €900/950 it would be about a third of our joint earnings. The maximum we wanted to spend was €850 but it doesn't look like we'll get more than a box for that.

Monife wrote: »

Just to give you all an update. We viewed a lovely apartment last night for €950. They said they couldn't budge on that. We said we would phone them the next evening. Phoned them this evening and told them we loved the apartment but can't afford more than €900. They said they were impressed by us and really liked us and think good tenants are more important than price and agreed to €900 per month.

Absolutely over the moon

I'm just a little confused but oh well, enjoy your new home.

January

Enjoy your new home OP

Monife

athtrasna wrote: »

I'm just a little confused but oh well, enjoy your new home.

Oh I probably forgot to update that the other day we decided the max we could go was €900 because we realised we wouldn't get anything in Northwood for €850.

M three

Monife wrote: »

Just to give you all an update. We viewed a lovely apartment last night for €950. They said they couldn't budge on that. We said we would phone them the next evening. Phoned them this evening and told them we loved the apartment but can't afford more than €900. They said they were impressed by us and really liked us and think good tenants are more important than price and agreed to €900 per month.

Absolutely over the moon

Well done.
When your lease is up, hopefully you'll have gotten to know the owner by then. Then you could rent directly from him, could save you another 50 euro per month or whatever the letting agents fees are.

Monife

M three wrote: »

Well done.
When your lease is up, hopefully you'll have gotten to know the owner by then. Then you could rent directly from him, could save you another 50 euro per month or whatever the letting agents fees are.

We will be renting directly from a landlord