First production gig...

fitz

So, despite having recorded bits and pieces for myself and other people, last weekend I produced another act for the first time. I'm going to put the mix up for a couple of days before taking it down, as this won't be released for a while.

I'd ask people not to pass it on or send it around.

It's an unmastered mix (so you might need to turn it up a bit), and my first real stab at mixing anything other than a demo.

Would love some feedback...

<Link removed>

EDIT: It's quite a big file (wav), so might be as well to right click above and download. MP3 version now added below...

fitz

Just noticed the volume automation at the start to bring up the acoustic is a bit close, so it's sounding like a bit of a late fade in. Must fix that...

fitz

Have uploaded an MP3 version, might be a bit easier for people to listen.

<Link removed>

Anyone with feedback?

pinksoir

I can't offer much and I've only listened on a laptop (studio is waaay too hot in this weather!) but one thing that really stuck out was the glockenspiel. It definitely needs to come down a few dbs. The guitars sound nice though and the vocal is good. The backing vocal could maybe be eq'd differently, or perhaps have a touch of some room reverb to have it sit differently in the mix. It seems to occupy a similar space as the main vocal. But that would be down to personal preference.

Again, I only listened to it on a laptop, but I suppose that's what most people listen on these days...

Nice simple production, though, that serves the song well.

fitz

pinksoir wrote: »

I can't offer much and I've only listened on a laptop (studio is waaay too hot in this weather!) but one thing that really stuck out was the glockenspiel. It definitely needs to come down a few dbs.

Will check that...

The guitars sound nice though and the vocal is good. The backing vocal could maybe be eq'd differently, or perhaps have a touch of some room reverb to have it sit differently in the mix. It seems to occupy a similar space as the main vocal. But that would be down to personal preference.

Do you mean the harmonies in general or the counter-melody vocals towards the end? The main harmonies are panned slightly, but the intent is to have them in the same space as the main vocal...the band isn't a guy and some backing vocalists, it's about the three of them, so yeah...that was a deliberate decision. The counter-melodies have a bucket load of space from the room it was recorded in. You might not get it through laptop speakers, but they're tonally and spacially different on proper speakers and in headphones.

Again, I only listened to it on a laptop, but I suppose that's what most people listen on these days...

Thanks for taking the time dude!

Nice simple production, though, that serves the song well.

Cheers!

pinksoir

I had a listen in my studio. Sounds very good to me. Very cool Fleetwood Mac vibe from it when it gets about half way through. Backing harmonies are cool and sit really well. Great when the rhythm guitar(s) come in. The ending opens up really nicely.

The glock is actually perfect on monitors, but then who actually listens on monitors? Might be something to look at as it really jumped out at me (in a bad way) when I listened on my laptop.

I noticed the main vocal is a tiny tiny bit wooly at the beginning (when it's most exposed), so maybe have a look at the lower mids on that.

Otherwise a very good, professional sounding job.

fitz

Thanks for that dude.
Did the glock jump out at the start or the end, or both?

pinksoir

I didn't notice it at the end at all so it's grand there. Mostly just when it first comes in.

fitz

pinksoir wrote: »

I didn't notice it at the end at all so it's grand there. Mostly just when it first comes in.

Ok, will take a look there.
Thanks again for the comments.

Anyone else?

krd

fitz wrote: »

The main harmonies are panned slightly, but the intent is to have them in the same space as the main vocal...the band isn't a guy and some backing vocalists, it's about the three of them,
Cheers!

It's not a democracy. You don't have to give them all the same space. The more independent the harmonies are placed the better they'll come through. It doesn't matter really, they all sound good.

I like the whole thing, but there is a major problem with it. I really like the loud glock by the way - that was a surprise.

But. You're missing some frequencies on the vocals - some of the consonants are even being distorted. The vocals should be crisper (it doesn't have to be all of them) - part of them should ride about the rest of the mix. There sounds like there's a hole in the mix - a missing crispness in the vocals.

At the start of the song the guy is singing in a lower register, part of this is overlapping with the drums, you can hear his voice separate from the muddiness as he moves up in register through the rest of the song. If you're going to mix the voices - do it section by section, he's not always in the same register and the voice is not in the same place all the time. In the first minute you might need to cut space in the drums for his voice.

Listen to the whole thing on speakers - with the volume turned down really low. The voices should be crisp and clear at a low volume. High volume can give you the illusion everything is as clear as it needs to be - because the volume is turned up.

Needs more cowbell.

fitz

krd wrote: »

It's not a democracy. You don't have to give them all the same space. The more independent the harmonies are placed the better they'll come through. It doesn't matter really, they all sound good.

I like the whole thing, but there is a major problem with it. I really like the loud glock by the way - that was a surprise.

But. You're missing some frequencies on the vocals - some of the consonants are even being distorted. The vocals should be crisper (it doesn't have to be all of them) - part of them should ride about the rest of the mix. There sounds like there's a hole in the mix - a missing crispness in the vocals.

At the start of the song the guy is singing in a lower register, part of this is overlapping with the drums, you can hear his voice separate from the muddiness as he moves up in register through the rest of the song. If you're going to mix the voices - do it section by section, he's not always in the same register and the voice is not in the same place all the time. In the first minute you might need to cut space in the drums for his voice.

Listen to the whole thing on speakers - with the volume turned down really low. The voices should be crisp and clear at a low volume. High volume can give you the illusion everything is as clear as it needs to be - because the volume is turned up.

Needs more cowbell.

Not sure I agree tbh, at low volume on ear buds from an iPod the voice is perfectly clear for me, but I'll take another listen on a few other systems.

krd

fitz wrote: »

Not sure I agree tbh, at low volume on ear buds from an iPod the voice is perfectly clear for me, but I'll take another listen on a few other systems.

I-pod headphones are not considered the gold standard of mastering media.


Headphones - all head phones - will lie like crazy. They all have sweet spots. So, something that sounds smooth and clear on i-pod headphones, could have a bit dip missing out of it when played back on speakers.

Here's a graph of the I-pod frequency response.



That's lovely. That's a pretty flat response. But that graph is from Apple and they are liars. I-pod buds are nothing like that

They're more like this.



If it sounds clear played low on speakers, that clarity will translate to the i-pod buds. But it doesn't necessarily work the other way around.

fitz

They're not iPod earbuds I'm using, they're Sennheisers, and you're missing the point.
I was trying to say that even on earbuds, I'm getting clarity.
I'm monitoring through sE Munro Eggs from my Apogee Ensemble in a treated room , and have checked the mix at low levels on the speakers, my AKG 241 cans, and through a set of Yamaha HS50's.
I didn't notice a clarity issue with the vocals at all.
Can I ask what you're listening on, so I can try to replicate what you're hearing?

krd

fitz wrote: »

Can I ask what you're listening on, so I can try to replicate what you're hearing?

I'm using really crap speakers. ........The kind of speakers people have in their homes. Typical mixes are made for crap speakers, not for monitors. My crap speakers push and sweeten between 2k and 10k. That more or less makes the vocals on any commercial recording come through very clearly.

The idea with monitors is flat response - so you're not being tricked by colouring - most domestic speakers have colouring - this is fine if the original mix is made on uncoloured speakers. Those frequency response graphs are useful (as long as they're truthful - the Apple graph for their buds is bullsht - did you know Steve Jobs would listen to music on a I-pod. He hated the sound) They show you where there is added colour.

Where monitors lie, is they're too clear.

In the KLF's book The Manual. There's piece about in the studio what speakers you pay attention to - the big speakers sound great. But it's the little speakers is what people will be listening to the track on. Studios used to, they probably still do, had a little box that mimic'd the speakers of the typical kitchen stereo.

I've listening to the track a few times - I like it. At higher volume it does sound very clear. And the guys voice - his voice moves around as for what range it's in - in the mix there are points where he's coming through absolutely crystal clear, there are other point he's not getting the crispness. But sometimes it sounds really good. The whole thing sounds delicate and intricate. Each little section, would nearly be it's own thing.

The way it sounds to me, is as if you were mixing on speakers that were slightly coloured up at somewhere in the 2k - 8k range (usually where there's colour). So when I play it back on my crap speakers - I'm hearing a dip. It might not be your speakers. It might be you listening to the track so many times the higher frequencies are giving you earache so you've turned them down.


Try mixing with earplugs - use the force.

krd

HEY!!!!!!!!!........I was listening to that!!

Could you put the link back so I could hear it again?