Is it possible to live without Banks?

Allyall

I have had a few drinks, and may change this to suit me when i'm sober.

I have lived without them (Banks), all through the BOOM!
I have managed my own money, my own affairs, and have managed to skip through life without using a bank.

I am not going to go into too much detail (Anything that may be asked, i may answer), but now, i am finding it hard.

I pay all my taxes. (I would save more money and time, going through banks (worked that out years ago) and paying through *the* Company i work for.)

Yesterday i viewed a house to rent. They wouldn't entertain me without a bank account. Sky, UPC etc.. all want a bank account also.. Pfffftt.. (Just an example of a company i don't need, and don't want.

I pay for my broadband in cash, top ups (UPC - until they demand a bank account.).
Same as anyone, i have decent broadband, and pay every month.

ESB will probably soon start asking me to make sure i have one (Bank account)..

Why do i need a bank account?
I am perfectly happy controlling my own money. I pay for everything. I owe nobody anything.

I am being forced into a bank, and my understanding is, they fúck everything up for everyone.

I don't want one.

Is it possible for me to continue without one?
Will it become law :pac:??


[EDIT]

I am going to sleep (a little stressed) now. I won't reply until i wake up and i am sober.

Father Damo

That you Bertie?

Canis Lupus

No you don't NEED one but frankly having one makes life so much easier. Intentionally avoiding an account seems utterly pointless.

Allyall

Allyall wrote: »

I am being forced into a bank, and my understanding is, they fúck everything up for everyone.

I really don't know what to say.. Equating the setting up a bank account to pay for broadband with the banking crisis is like saying playing football in your garden helped john terry make racist comments.

up for anything

You are not the only one, OP. My mother and father after getting royally shafted and fucked over by their bank haven't had a bank account since I would say the very early 80s. They have used their credit union for all their banking since then and the only time my mother ever enters a bank is to put money into my account on the odd occasion and it is the only time she gets anywhere close to panic attack symptoms.

For myself my dream is to earn/win a huge amount of money and to wave it in front of every bank in the world and then to tell them to go fuck themselves.

So where do you actually keep your money OP?

Or put it another can banks live without savers?
Apparently, Yes because some banks now have negative interest rates to stop other banks "resting" their money with them.

Can banks survive without borrowers who can afford to pay back what they owe?
No! We already know they can't live without growth (needed to repay debt), that's why they're being propped up.

It may be a case that only the wealthy will have bank accounts in the future, everyone else will have credit unions or similar.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

So where do you actually keep your money OP?

http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/rde0129l.jpg

Jester252

OP nobody will what to deal with you if all you're dealing in is cash

mike65

Many people in Ireland apparently get by without a bank account but they must have patience to do so. Of course you can cheat to a degree with PO and or Credit Union accounts.

Jester252

Jester252 wrote: »

OP nobody will what to deal with you if all your dealing are in cash.

Nixers!

Agricola

Would be completely impractically not to have a bank a/c, a massive pain in the arse actually. Unless you're living some kind of gypsy lifestyle where everything is cash in hand, I don't know how you could manage without one.

waltermc

For many years my wages were paid to me in cash after tax and prsi were deducted. I did have a bank account but my employer was not into technology.

I did out some money into the bank every week though and my wife would lodge the check her employer gave her but we never paid anything by direct debit until my wages were paid into my account. We managed fine paying bills using cash until we were charged a fee for not paying by direct debit.

I have heard of many people closing bank accounts and opening post office accounts instead or credit union accounts.

bnt

OP is mixing up two different kinds of banks - Retail and Investment - which is understandable, since the banks have been mixing them up, too. Excuse me if I waffle a bit, since the change in banking is a fascinating topic.

Retail banking covers the useful things banks do for individuals: holding your money in accounts, giving you access to it, providing personal loans (credit cards, mortgages), and so on. This is what small banks used to do, and later Building Societies: if you had money in a savings account, it didn't just sit there: it was loaned out to others. The point is that using a retail bank allows money to flow from where it's not needed to where it is needed, making both you and the bank some interest along the way. But no-one else got to use your money for "investment" purposes.

In the film It's A Wonderful Life, the bank owned by Jimmy Stewart's character in the 1930s has a "bank run", but he manages to stop it by explaining what a bank does and where the money goes. What he describes is, basically, the Building Society model, which has almost vanished today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB3DDsCHKgE

Sounds like a Credit Union, doesn't it? Credit Unions still do some of this Retail banking, letting you save and borrow, but they don't do mortgages, current accounts, debit or credit cards, or other mod cons. If they did, it would be a return to the Building Society model, which would be a good idea, I think. I was with the Abbey National Building Society when I lived in the UK; a Mutual society (like a Credit Union), but with current accounts and other retail banking facilities.

They De-Mutualised, became a bank, and are now just a brand name used by Santander after they were taken over. By becoming a bank, they could get involved in Investment banking. This happened in Ireland too: half a century ago, Ireland had about 50, and now it has none (says Wikipedia). By becoming Banks, the former Building Societies could get involved in Investment Banking and make more money by trading their assets.

Remember, if you have a Mortgage, that's a Liability to you (because you owe), but an Asset to the Bank, since they are owed money. So mortgages and other loans are Assets that a Bank can sell off for a profit - and they did, to Investment banks. Those banks would take bundles of mortgages, chop them in to bits and sell those off to other banks and to investors. These were the "Collateralized Debt Obligations" (CDOs). Whole books have been written on this process and how bad "sub-prime" mortgages were magically transformed in to AAA grade investments in this process, thanks to the Ratings Agencies not doing their jobs.

Santender is one of the biggest banks in Europe, and is at the centre of the Spanish banking crisis, thanks to their "exposure" to not just the Spanish mortgage busts, but to the USA, UK, Ireland, Eastern Europe, and so on - thanks to this cross-border investment banking. The same goes for Irish banks (BoI, AIB) to varying degrees.

It's not just in the West, either, and it could be even worse. In China, their huge industrial and property booms have been fuelled by people's savings. People there save at a much higher rate than here, and that money has been funneled through the Bank of China (i.e. the State) to investors. The Chinese State is like an 800-pound gorilla throwing bananas at investors: there's no use trying to refuse the banana, even if you're not hungry, even if the banana's going to go rotten. The result is that Chinese developers have built thousands of apartment blocks that will never be occupied. If those Chinese savers all try to pull their money out of their banks at once, it's going to get real ugly, real quick. :eek:

Yes, The UK are trying to breakup that investment/commercial banking union now after (the horse has bolted) the financial contagion it caused in 2008.

High street banking in generally sound, but, it still requires a growing economy to function correctly unless fundamental changes are made, for example eliminating "fractional reserve banking" and "leveraging", "boring" banking is what most people really need.

Allyall

Deleted User wrote: »

So where do you actually keep your money OP?

In a sock at the end of my bed. :pac:;)

Jester252 wrote: »

OP nobody will what to deal with you if all you're dealing in is cash

I know. that's starting to be my problem.

Agricola wrote: »

Would be completely impractically not to have a bank a/c, a massive pain in the arse actually. Unless you're living some kind of gypsy lifestyle where everything is cash in hand, I don't know how you could manage without one.

I use Apples and Knick-Knacks. :pac:

No Gypsy Lifestyle here. I have 3 Prepay visa cards in made up names and addresses if i need to buy online, or Deposit in somebody's bank account.
Admittedly, That is only recently, and did make it easier for me. (I know)
Prior to that, i used to give my friend cash, and he'd pay through his bank, if i needed to. I avoided it where it was avoidable.

Normally when i rent, i can deposit in their bank account a every month, which i currently do.

Coincidentally (for this thread), my current Landlord is an Ex-Anglo bank mortgage advisor. He owns something like 20+ (I actually think it's 40+) properties, and is having them all reposessed. One house he bought for €450,000 was taken off him and sold for €125,000. That is why i am moving. The house i am in, just got reposessed, and i have to get out.

Madam_X

OP, unusual to be paid wages by a company in cash nowadays. Banks don't screw up everything for everyone at all - better to actually research this than merely rely on an understanding you have.

up for anything wrote: »

You are not the only one, OP. My mother and father after getting royally shafted and fu[COLOR="Black"]cke[/COLOR]d over by their bank haven't had a bank account since I would say the very early 80s. They have used their credit union for all their banking since then and the only time my mother ever enters a bank is to put money into my account on the odd occasion and it is the only time she gets anywhere close to panic attack symptoms.

What does she think the powerless tellers on mediocre wages will do to her?

For myself my dream is to earn/win a huge amount of money and to wave it in front of every bank in the world and then to tell them to go f[COLOR="Black"]uc[/COLOR]k themselves.

Not that they'd care. If I won the lotto I'd lodge it in the bank and watch the interest accumulate.

Generally speaking, blaming people just doing their day-to-day job (the housekeeping groundwork that none of the investment, merchant, managerial types do - e.g. admin, processing lodgements, dealing with sh1tty customers) in a little retail bank branch for the screwing of customers by higher-ups/for isolated incidents makes no sense other than to axe-grind. It seems the fashion though with the crises for people who don't know what they're talking about to just blurt out that the banks are all bastards - while availing of them.
My bank has never caused me problems whatsoever. I just get paid into my bank account and take out money for bills/loan and at the ATM, and put aside bits and bobs in a savings account; check my statement every few days. No more, no less. Have used that system for 18 years and would have evidence of being screwed by now.

Allyall

bnt wrote: »

Long Post

I'd thank that post twice if possible.

juan.kerr

Don't know why you are bothering to do this OP. Plus it seems a bit pointless when you use 'workarounds' like prepaid visa cards or make use of a friends back account.

What brand of prepaid visa card do you use.

For example take a look at the O2 one:

O2 Money card is issued by R. Raphaels Bank, and authorised and regulated by the UK Financial Services Authority. Charges, limits and restrictions apply. Terms & Conditions apply.

scamalert

why wouldn't you want to use a bank is the first question?unless you are dealing something illegal then its understandable banks dont loose money you have,even if they do go bankrupt,unless all worldwide economy collapsed then it would be a different matter which wouldn't bother you anymore anyway,most banks charge from 10 to 60 quid a year for services they give you card,statements,ability to take out cash at atms.So unless you have some sort of mental problem with the banks or still under +18 and dealing in 5 euro notes be happy,might a swell buy a pouch for silver coins :pac:

Madam_X

Banks charge for providing a service? What bastards! :mad:

bnt

Allyall wrote: »

I'd thank that post twice if possible.

Ta! I never used to be interested in economics, but watching the meltdown over the last few years had me going "wha?" too often to ignore. My main source of "user-friendly" knowledge has been podcasts, especially Freakonomics and the NPR Planet Money series.

When the NPR guys wanted to learn about Toxic Assets, they actually went out and bought one with their own money. Not only did they lose most of it, their TA became evidence in a mortgage fraud case. They turned their experiences in to a series, a condensed version of which became an episode of This American Life called Toxie. Highly recommended if the whole sub-prime mortgage / CDO side of the crash has you confussed. :cool:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3SB9CArkPo

Onixx wrote: »

Banks charge for providing a service? What bastards!

I don't mind paying service charges if I'm getting a service in return. Under the Mutual / Credit Union / Building Society model, you knew where that money was going. Salaries, rent, office expenses ... and interest for the other institution members who loaned you that money. It's no coincidence that the word Transparency is very common in the financial press today, especially in the UK after the LIBOR scandal. CDOs, the "shadow banking system", LIBOR ... all bad ideas because investors and regulators could not see what was going on and/or were lied to.

OneArt

You're an unperson in Germany if you don't have a bank account, so it's not an option for me .

Peetrik

Fair play to you OP. I absolutely loathe dealing with banks, hidden fees, extra charges for the most mundane things like automated letters... ugh.

I have an account but only ever put money in directly before its due to come out so as to give them as little time with my money as possible. Credit unions are at least doing something to help the community instead of just paying themselves massive bonuses for successfully leaching as much money off their customers as possible.

Madam_X

bnt wrote: »

I don't mind paying service charges if I'm getting a service in return. Under the Mutual / Credit Union / Building Society model, you knew where that money was going. Salaries, rent, office expenses ... and interest for the other institution members who loaned you that money. It's no coincidence that the word Transparency is very common in the financial press today, especially in the UK after the LIBOR scandal. CDOs, the "shadow banking system", LIBOR ... all bad ideas because investors and regulators could not see what was going on and/or were lied to.

Ah I was only messing - taking the piss out of people who actually think like that (literally "Why should I pay for a service i use?") e.g. Peetrik above.

Peetrik

Onixx wrote: »

Ah I was only messing - taking the piss out of people who actually think like that (literally "Why should I pay for a service i use?") e.g. Peetrik above.

I dislike being charged for a service I have not requested. If you're happy enough to do so then keep picking up that soap

Madam_X

As a poster said:

most banks charge from 10 to 60 quid a year for services they give you card,statements,ability to take out cash at atms

You are a customer of the bank - that in itself is a service being provided to you, of course you will be charged for it. I've never been charged for anything I didn't request by the bank. What kinda stuff are you referring to?

Peetrik

A quick google search of 'bank overcharging customers' will give you countless examples.

eth0

Banks can cast money into existence on the back of loans that other people have taken out with them. Banks also cost millions to set up, so only people who win the euromillons and the existing elite can set them up.

Not only that but when banks f*ck up, government will look after them. They also charge fees for all cashless transactions and there is very little we can do about that. Governments are working with the banks to usher in the big brother cashless society, with or without mandatory chip implants so everything is traceable and the government are already getting great use out of the banks for spying on people.

They're also hard at work to make it impossible to live without them, trying to force cashless payments which they have the monopoly on (except for bitcoin). They get to choose which companies gets loans, which get invested in so together with the government they have a huge amount of power.

TLDR? Banks are pure evil.

Rothko

Banks. Can't live with them and can't live without them.

up for anything

Onixx wrote: »

What does she think the powerless tellers on mediocre wages will do to her?

She's not worried about what the powerless tellers on mediocre wages will do to her - it's what the bank represents to her that give her the heebie jeebies.

Onixx wrote: »

Not that they'd care. If I won the lotto I'd lodge it in the bank and watch the interest accumulate.

I'd prefer to lodge it in the fridge and watch the ice accumulate.

up for anything

up for anything wrote: »

I'd prefer to lodge it in the fridge and watch the ice accumulate.

Then you won't have any liquid assets! :P

Madam_X

Any capitalist organisation that I don't like is evil.

up for anything

Deleted User wrote: »

Then you won't have any liquid assets! :P

No, but I could lick my lolly whenever I wanted to.

sheesh

hi op of course you can but you will not be able to have broadband a reasonable house or other conveniences of a modern society. You need to be traceable so they can trust you with their services or assets otherwise you might.

as for stuff like accomodation I'm sure you could get a house share with someone who owns the house and just give the cash to them for electricity, broadband phoneline gas etc it would be very east to do and I'm sure there are plenty of house holders out that there that would appreciate it.

So long as your are not some sort of paranoid out of work loon that is hiding from big brother.

good luck

eth0

sheesh wrote: »

hi op of course you can but you will not be able to have broadband a reasonable house or other conveniences of a modern society.

good luck

you can have broadband without a bank account and 'conveniences of a modern society' are mostly overrated

Gummy Panda

Get a Panda Bank

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjXqDSS07hk

Safe as bamboo!

sheesh

eth0 wrote: »

you can have broadband without a bank account and 'conveniences of a modern society' are mostly overrated

except the op would like to live in a house and this particular house owners want one, nothing sends up the 'I have no money' red flag like The phrase 'I have no bank account' it sounds like you are hiding from something or worse lying.

As I said the op should have a look at a house share

eth0

sheesh wrote: »

except the op would like to live in a house and this particular house owners want one, nothing sends up the 'I have no money' red flag like The phrase 'I have no bank account' it sounds like you are hiding from something or worse lying.

As I said the op should have a look at a house share

Maybe thats the case in the prim and proper regulation-loving Dublin land but I found its well possible to rent places without having a bank account. "Modern society" at it's worst, being suspicious of you because you havn't the latest fad. I suppose soon you'll be considered bad for not having a Facebook account, or if you don't have a mobile phone then you must have something to hide because you don't want to be tracked. What a load of bollix

Cantona's Collars

sheesh wrote: »

except the op would like to live in a house and this particular house owners want one, nothing sends up the 'I have no money' red flag like The phrase 'I have no bank account' it sounds like you are hiding from something or worse lying.

As I said the op should have a look at a house share

I know lots of people with no bank accounts,I found it a bit strange as these were young people & I thought they were 'with it' enough to have laser cards etc. but they are happy without needing banks as they pay 99% of their bills through the post office.Funnily enough they all live in council houses so no mortgage payments,they just pay the rent with cash.
Personally I'd find it a hassle having to traipse to the post office to pay one bill then somewhere else to pay another & so on.

eth0

zerks wrote: »

I know lots of people with no bank accounts,I found it a bit strange as these were young people & I thought they were 'with it' enough to have laser cards etc. but they are happy without needing banks as they pay 99% of their bills through the post office.Funnily enough they all live in council houses so no mortgage payments,they just pay the rent with cash.
Personally I'd find it a hassle having to traipse to the post office to pay one bill then somewhere else to pay another & so on.

The post office is probably a social gathering for them and not hassle for them at all

sheesh

eth0 wrote: »

Maybe thats the case in the prim and proper regulation-loving Dublin land but I found its well possible to rent places without having a bank account. "Modern society" at it's worst, being suspicious of you because you havn't the latest fad. I suppose soon you'll be considered bad for not having a Facebook account, or if you don't have a mobile phone then you must have something to hide because you don't want to be tracked. What a load of bollix

I don't live in dublin and i hardly think banking is a fad.

I don't think Dublin is as prim and proper as you imagine