More words I don't understand.

MaryKirwan

I waited a few days for them to accumulate so I'd only have to make the one thread.

1) Ionann. Apparently this means as/equal/represent. What does it mean in the context "Is maith atá a fhios ag múinteoirí nach ionann mar a éiríonn le gach foghlaimeoir..."?

2) Táthar. Seems to mean it/are/been but I know other words for these things so I don't get why this word exists. What is it for?

3) Should and should not. Do these translate into: gur cheart and nár chóir? I wasn't sure.

4) Baineann. I've seen this in a few contexts and it never seems to mean anything by itself. What is it?

domhnaillin

Hi Mary,

1) Ionann. There are a few different contexts in which to use ionann. Firstly, to say things are identical or alike, e.g. Is ionann X agus Y. (X and Y are the same) or Ní hionann sin is a rá go n-aontaím leis. (Literally, 'that is not the same as saying that I agree with him').

"Is maith atá a fhios ag múinteoirí nach ionann mar a éiríonn le gach foghlaimeoir..." falls under this category. 'Teachers know rightly that some learners succeed better than others', or literally 'Teachers know rightly that the way that some learners succeed is not the same as the way that other learners succeed'.

Secondly, there is 'is ionann is/agus' means 'it's as good as' or 'it might as well', e.g. is ionann agus go bhfuil sé imithe (he's as good as gone, he might as well be gone)

=Almost/as good as, e.g. Tá mé ionann is cinnte go bhfuil sé ceadaithe (I'm as good as/almost certain that it's allowed). Tá mise ag cuidiú leo, murab ionann is tusa (I'm helping them, unlike you)

2) Táthar is the present autonomous of the verb bí. The autonomous/saorbhriathar is for when nobody specific is performing the action, so táthar means 'people are' or 'they are' if you don't know who 'they' are. Táthar ag caint ar olltoghchán bheith ann roimh dheireadh an tsamhraidh ('They'/people are talking about there being a general election before the end of the summer)

3) Should/should not. Ba chóir duit filleadh ar an scoil (You should [lit: it would be right for you to] go back to school), Níor chóir duit do bhróga a fhágáil ar an staighre (You shouldn't leave your shoes on the stairs, lit. it wouldn't be right for you to leave your shoes on the stairs). Ní dóigh liom gur chóir ligint dóibh teacht ar ais (I don't think they should be let come back, lit. I don't think that it would be right to let them back)

4) Baineann. On its own this is an adjective meaning female (=baninscneach). Mostly you will see it in the context of 'to do with', i.e. Ní bhaineann X le Y (X has nothing to do with Y). Bain as a verb means a lot of things, especially in conjunction with different prepositions, but in this context you would be wanting the verb bain + the preposition le (=with). 'Bain le' has a different meaning from just bain on its own.

Bain le = to concern, to be relevant to sth, to be around s/o or attached to s/o. Ní bhaineann sé liom (It has nothing to do with me), Bhí an-bhrón ag baint léi (there was a great sadness about her), Is ceist é seo a bhaineann linne go léir (This is a matter which concerns us all)

Hope that has helped,
Ádh mór

deirdremf

MaryKirwan wrote: »

I waited a few days for them to accumulate so I'd only have to make the one thread.

2) Táthar. Seems to mean it/are/been but I know other words for these things so I don't get why this word exists. What is it for?

3) Should and should not. Do these translate into: gur cheart and nár chóir? I wasn't sure.

2) When you don't have a person (subject) in the sentence, you use this, there will probably be another verb in the sentence.
"táthar ag obair ar an mbóthar nua"
" they are working on the new road", "work is being done on the new road"

3) You are right, but equally you could say "gur chóir" and "nár cheart" - same meaning.

Enkidu

deirdremf wrote: »

2) When you don't have a person (subject) in the sentence, you use this, there will probably be another verb in the sentence.
"táthar ag obair ar an mbóthar nua"
" they are working on the new road", "work is being done on the new road"

Just to add, you wouldn't really use this in deirdremf's example, but you can say both of the following:

Táthar ag déanamh an bhóthair nua = They're making the new road/The new road is being made.
Tá an bóthar nua á dhéanamh = They're making the new road/The new road is being made.

They do mean slightly different things (The first puts a bit more emphasis on the unmentioned "they" who are making the road), but they're pretty much interchangeable.

mr chips

"Baineann" is also one of the words that means "female".

"Tá cat nua agam." "Baineann nó fireann?" "Baineann."

franc 91

First of all, thank you very much for all of these explanations, they're very useful. On another forum sometime ago, I was asking about how to say - 'it is said' or what's vaguely equivalent to it. In a dialect of French (in the Vendée et Poitou) it's an important expression used in storytelling - on est à dire. To express this idea in Irish, I was given - deirtear, but I see that you have this other way of saying it - tàthar ag caint. Would that be better?

Insect Overlord

I think "deirtear" would be better in that case.

Enkidu

franc 91 wrote: »

I was given - deirtear, but I see that you have this other way of saying it - tàthar ag caint. Would that be better?

Hi franc 91,

You can think of the "tar/thar" ending as meaning either "They" as in the general "They", like "They say it's dangerous". Although sometimes it might be better translated as "One".

So, Deirtear = "They" say
Táthar = "They" are

Hence,
Táthar ag caint = "They" are talking.

Really the "tar" ((e)adh or (a)íodh in the past) ending is used when you mention an action, but don't really specify who did it:

Deirtear go bhfuil tú breoite = "They" say you are sick
Do bunaíodh Conradh na Gaeilge sa bhliain 1893 = The Gaelic League was founded in 1893. (Who founded it is not specified).

Traditionally you don't lenite the verb with the "tar" ending.

If you say Deirid/Deireann siad/Deir siad/Deirid siad (all four versions from every dialect), you are referring to a specific "they" probably already mentioned.

franc 91

GRMA - but in fact I probably should be using the verb to say - abair - so could I say tàthar ag rà? (In French it's sort of = one has got to the point of saying). The other thing I want to ask is - is caint a noun or part of the verb?

Enkidu

franc 91 wrote: »

GRMA - but in fact I probably should be using the verb to say - abair - so could I say tàthar ag rà? (In French it's sort of = one has got to the point of saying). The other thing I want to ask is - is caint a noun or part of the verb?

Yes indeed, so

Deirtear = "They" say
Táthar ag rá = "They" are saying

"Caint" is a noun, as is "rá". Anything that follows "ag" in those types of sentences is a noun. Since it is associated with the verb, it's usually called the verbal noun. However it is a fully independent noun. For example:

Tá sé ag déanamh na hoibre = He is doing the work. (verbal use)

Is maith liom déanamh na mbróg so = I like the make of those shoes. (used purely as a noun, déanamh = construction/make)

franc 91

Of course verbal nouns really are the kind of basic thing that I should know about, but what prompted me to ask the question is this: I looked up 'caint' in the dictionary where it is presented as a noun rather than a verbal noun. The reason I looked it up is because in Collins Irish verbs, there's - caintigh, with the verbal noun (ainm briathartha) caintiù (with a fada on the 'u') - which made me wonder why you say - ag caint and not ag caintiù?

Enkidu

I think "caint" is a short version of caintiú and that the verb itself (caintigh) fell out of use.