God Fearing Man Sentenced

Bessiebee

http://www.donegaldaily.com/2012/07/19/god-fearing-conman-sentenced-to-112-years-for-fraud/

Was it proper or appropriate for the Judge in this case to describe the victims as "Good God Fearing people". Would it have made any difference were they atheist or how is religion relevant at all ??

Procrastastudy

Its pretty obvious from the article. If he'd have scammed members of the Austin Allegro owners club because he was also an Austin Allegro owner would it have been inappropriate to mention that?

Bessiebee

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

Its pretty obvious from the article. If he'd have scammed members of the Austin Allegro owners club because he was also an Austin Allegro would it have been inappropriate to mention that?

The only thing the Judge knew was that they were all from the same small religious community - how on earth is that relevant to a court of law where someone is being tried for fraud. I mean "God Fearing". Why label them?

mikom

GOD-FEARING CONMAN SENTENCED TO 112 YEARS FOR FRAUD

Whoa!!

All sentences are to run concurrently which means Elvin will serve a total of five years in prison.

"There is a God."

Procrastastudy

Bessiebee wrote: »

The only thing the Judge knew was that they were all from the same small religious community - how on earth is that relevant to a court of law where someone is being tried for fraud. I mean "God Fearing". Why label them?

For obvious reasons. They trusted him as he put himself across as a religious person having the same views as them as operating on the same code of ethics. The Judge in the case would have mentioned any class of people if the fraud was related to specifically that class of people.

Procrastastudy

mikom wrote: »

Whoa!!



"There is a God."

Of course there's a God! Constitution says so!

I prefer to put my faith in the tangible sovereignty of the Crown personally :pac:

Bessiebee

So a religion is seen as a "class" in the eyes of the law?

Procrastastudy

Look up what class means when used in a legal context.

Bessiebee

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

Look up what class means when used in a legal context.

can you send me a better link - this is best I can do

http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=209

So this man who happens to practises a certain religion sets up an investment company. Others who also practice the same religion invest money with him. Not all these people are in the same parish as each other or as him. Some Methodists, CoI etc. This was their own personal savings which they wished to invest and trusted him because he was a fellow protestant & happened to run an investment company when he took time off from reading the bible. He screwed up, they lost and they sue, each presumably on their own behalf ?
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1214/elvint.html



I'm just curious - is this a class action?

I personally would take offence if I were called a good god fearing person by a Judge regardless of what church I frequented but maybe thats just me

Procrastastudy

No we don't have class actions in Ireland. Put simply a class of person is a group for a particular reason. For reasons that escape even my, less than discerning, sense of humour 'Gingers' are the class most often referred to by GCD exams. However males are a class, people who bank with AIB are a class etc.

I think its hair slitting to suggest that the Judge did something wrong by suggesting that religious people in this case were 'God fearing', presumably in your view as opposed to God loving? God Bothering?

Manach

The judge was using a commonly used traditional phrase, which seems to now be coming under pressure by the defacto and atraditional quest drive to oust religion from the public sphere.

Bessiebee

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

No we don't have class actions in Ireland. Put simply a class of person is a group for a particular reason. For reasons that escape even my, less than discerning, sense of humour 'Gingers' are the class most often referred to by GCD exams. However males are a class, people who bank with AIB are a class etc.

I think its hair slitting to suggest that the Judge did something wrong by suggesting that religious people in this case were 'God fearing', presumably in your view as opposed to God loving? God Bothering?

God nothing ! No reference to God at all would have been more appropriate - my point is what in God's name has God got to do with people suing another person in court for misappropration of their life savings just because they are all of the same religion? It was merely a financial transaction between people of the same faith.

I don't want a fight - I just think it was an entirely bizarre way for the Judge to describe them

Procrastastudy

I simply don't understand why? If it was AIB bank members would you have objected to the Judge using the thing that linked the parties together or is it simply that its a reference to God?

That article is also really badly written. (An this is ME saying this!)

It says he was God Fearing man which is something they've presumably found out for themselves as it wasn't mentioned by the Judge and they use the worth 'fate' where presumably they mean faith. Maybe that's whats confusing you also?

Bessiebee

Are females not a class :eek:

Procrastastudy

No no females ARE class! Well unless you go to Coppers - then well no class in sight tbh.

Bessiebee

RTE news reported the Judge referring to the victims as good god fearing people who were let down by one of their own - bit patronising - but hey thats just my opinion - think if Mr. Elvin and they all were all catholic it wouldn't even be on the news nor mentioned in court but, am not going there - nor Coppers btw - am much too classy !!

Procrastastudy

I disagree about it not being mentioned. I'm pretty sure its been mentioned on one or two occasions that we trusted and, were duped by banks.

Bessiebee

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

I disagree about it not being mentioned. I'm pretty sure its been mentioned on one or two occasions that we trusted and, were duped by banks.

So when Seanie returns from vacation & is asked very kindly to have a wee sit over there just for a minute in the witness box in the High Court while we just ask you a few questions, will anyone think to ask about his faith?? i.e. in God, not himself, though he may have bother making the distinction.

Procrastastudy

Bessiebee wrote: »

So when Seanie returns from vacation & is asked very kindly to have a wee sit over there just for a minute in the witness box in the High Court while we just ask you a few questions, will anyone think to ask about his faith?? i.e. in God, not himself, though he may have bother making the distinction.

Sorry what now? I'm not very up on Irish current affairs. Terrible for a law student I know - but it is the holidays.

Bessiebee

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

Sorry what now? I'm not very up on Irish current affairs. Terrible for a law student I know - but it is the holidays.

You mentioned banks ... I said Seanie ...never mind - your previous knowledge had restored my faith in students, now I'm not so sure - thanks anyway, I'll bother you again next time I need a pressing legal isssue addressed, if you don't mind

whiteonblu

Bessiebee wrote: »

http://www.donegaldaily.com/2012/07/19/god-fearing-conman-sentenced-to-112-years-for-fraud/

Was it proper or appropriate for the Judge in this case to describe the victims as "Good God Fearing people". Would it have made any difference were they atheist or how is religion relevant at all ??

From the report

“This was an elaborate, sophisticated and deliberate fraud of these good people. He took advantage of them because they had the same fate as him.

Procrastastudy

Bessiebee wrote: »

You mentioned banks ... I said Seanie ...never mind - your previous knowledge had restored my faith in students, now I'm not so sure - thanks anyway, I'll bother you again next time I need a pressing legal isssue addressed, if you don't mind

Hahaha that'll give a few here a laugh! Nice chatting to ya.