New Waterford records from RootsIreland

Coolnabacky1873

Just got the email that they have added 242,000 RC and CofI Church marriage records.

I guess that are not that bad after all

See the relevant parishes here.

Ponster

And I have a question from the first record I got from them


08-Mar-1870
Parish / District: Clonea/Rathgormack County: Co. Waterford
John Cantwell married Catherine Daniel

The notes mention : Comment: DISPENSATION OBTAINED

So growing up in Ireland the only time I ever heard about a dispensation required was when cousins married. Are there any other cases where this would apply ?

P. Breathnach

I wasn't very attentive during Christian Doctrine classes all those years ago, but there is an echo in my head of a list of things for which dispensation might be required. It started "consanguinity, affinity..." and then memory fails me.

Affinity means being connected, but not by blood - marrying a deceased sibling's spouse.

A person who had taken a vow of chastity (a former priest, brother, or nun) also needed a dispensation.

I think there were other things which required dispensation.

CeannRua

Dispensation also needed if one of the parties to the marriage was not Catholic.

pinkypinky

Damn them, now I'll actually have to pay them some money for searching.
I looked at the records in the NLI a couple of years ago for Cappoquin, they were so badly preserved, and with terrible handwriting that I wasn't confident at all I hadn't missed something.

Coolnabacky1873

There were degrees of separation when it came to family. First cousins were second degree, second cousins were third degree etc..

So, for example, if they had a third degree dispensation ('consanguinati in tertio' in the Latin registers) you can work out that their grandparents were siblings, which of course is good genealogical knowledge to know.

Ponster

Thanks all but I think I've got it.

Based on her estimated DoB from the 1901 census, the girl was only 14 when she got married which may be the cause.

CeannRua

Ponster wrote: »

Thanks all but I think I've got it.

Based on her estimated DoB from the 1901 census, the girl was only 14 when she got married which may be the cause.

Have you got a reference for this Ponster? She would legally have been of marriageable age from 12 I think. Wouldn't rely on census for correct dob either.

Ponster

CeannRua wrote: »

Have you got a reference for this Ponster? She would legally have been of marriageable age from 12 I think. Wouldn't rely on census for correct dob either.

No reference for it. I just assumed that a 14-year old would need some form of permission to get married. Her DoB matches both the 1901 and 1911 census though I understand that it can't be taken as an exact age.

CeannRua

Reading this Law Reform Commission document, it doesn't look like she would have needed a dispensation:

Section 4.4 ...An individual was regarded as having reached marriageable age at 14 years, if a male, and 12 years, if a female. However, he or she did not reach full age until 21. A marriage when the bridegroom had attained 14 years and the bride had attained 12 years was binding on both parties. Parental consent to the marriage of a minor was not a legal requirement.
http://www.lawreform.ie/_fileupload/consultation%20papers/wpAgeofMajority.htm

In a following paragraph it says that during 1922-1972 the ages of 14 and 12 were the ages specified in canon law as well. Assume they applied pre- 1922 as well but it doesn't actually say this. Canon law now says ages are 16 and 14 for groom and bride respectively.

The two most common reasons I've seen for needing a dispensation are one person not being Catholic and some degree of consainguinity.

CeannRua

Should have said as well, it would be worth asking if there is more info in the original register. The reason for the dispensation is often given. Failing that, dispensations were often recorded in stub books so you could ask if the diocese still has the counterfoil.