Co Enzyme Q 10

Splendour

Hi, does anyone in here know if a GP can test Co Enzyme Q 10 levels?

RobFowl

Splendour wrote: »

Hi, does anyone in here know if a GP can test Co Enzyme Q 10 levels?

Not as far as I know

Splendour

RobFowl wrote: »

Not as far as I know

Do you think there are any specialists at all who can test it?

locum-motion

Do you mind if I ask you what you would hope to achieve by having such a test done?

Splendour

locum-motion wrote: »

Do you mind if I ask you what you would hope to achieve by having such a test done?

No, not at all.

Apparently low levels of this enzyme can be a factor in chronic fatigue/M.E. <Snip>

steddyeddy

Splendour wrote: »

No, not at all.

Apparently low levels of this enzyme can be a factor in chronic fatigue/M.E. <Snip>

A biochemist is what your looking for but Im not sure you will find a lab willing to test you. Ubiquinone is the scientific name for this coenzyme and it is involved in the electron transport chain in the mitochondria and so its very important for energy levels. I admire your intelligence in looking for the enzyme involved in your symptoms but I would be careful self diagnosing yourself one way or another.

busymum1

Biomnis offer the test on the list on their website so it can be done.
Unlikely a GP will be able to do it as it needs to be spun and frozen pretty much straight away. But you could phone them and find out. I imagine it will cost a small fortune to have done privately as it goes to France. From the test info section.

COENZYME Q10 - COQ10 - SERUM .... Q10
Synonymes - Coenzyme Q10
- [To be translated]


Preanalytical 2 mL Serum FROZEN < 4hr


Technique HPLC - High Performance Liquid Chromatography
Turn around time Maximum : 1 week

Pathologist(s) in charge Biomnis Lyon :
Dr Isabelle PETIT
isabelle.petit@biomnis.com

However as per wikipedia serum levels are not a great test

Clinical assessment techniques
Although CoQ10 can be measured in plasma, these measurements reflect dietary intake rather than tissue status. Currently, most clinical centers measure CoQ10 levels in cultured skin fibroblasts, muscle biopsies, and in blood mononuclear cells.[19] Culture fibroblasts can be used also to evaluate the rate of endogenous CoQ10 biosynthesis, by measuring the uptake of 14C-labelled p-hydroxybenzoate.[22]

Culturing skin fibroblasts is a complicated business involving a skin biopsy and weeks of fiddly lab work. It's more of a research tool and would be done very rarely for clinical reasons.


HTH

Splendour

steddyeddy wrote: »

A biochemist is what your looking for but Im not sure you will find a lab willing to test you. Ubiquinone is the scientific name for this coenzyme and it is involved in the electron transport chain in the mitochondria and so its very important for energy levels. I admire your intelligence in looking for the enzyme involved in your symptoms but I would be careful self diagnosing yourself one way or another.

Thanks for that steddyeddy, I have been reading a lot on Ubiquinone and although I don't understand all of it, it makes for very interesting reading and is making sense to where I'm at.

I appreciate your concern over self diagnosis but you'll see from the post below that I've no choice...

Splendour wrote: »

I agree that the first port of call should be a GP but what would you do if after years of attending different Doctors and they can't find out what is wrong with you? What would you do then? Have you ever been in this position?

Never mind mushroom paste, personally I'd eat elephant s**t if I thought it would make me better and as mainstream Doctors haven't been able to help me thus far (8 years of being unwell), I would try anything to get well. Unfortunately, as am not working, I don't have the money to try alternative healers but if I could, I would. Desperate needs call for desperate measures...

Splendour

busymum1 wrote: »

Biomnis offer the test on the list on their website so it can be done.
Unlikely a GP will be able to do it as it needs to be spun and frozen pretty much straight away. But you could phone them and find out. I imagine it will cost a small fortune to have done privately as it goes to France.

Thanks so much for that busymum. I have looked at getting it tested in the UK but the problem is due to my not being able to work at the moment it's not feasible to me to have testing done privately.

Have thought about ringing my GP but tbh, she has dismissed tests before that I've asked for before and I always feel I'm being a nuisance when I go in. My thinking was that if I knew this test was a common enough test done by a GP it would make my case easier...

RUCKING FETARD

Why not just take a supplement? Or is CQ10 like B12 and has to be injected if deficient?

Splendour

RUCKING FETARD wrote: »

Why not just take a supplement? Or is CQ10 like B12 and has to be injected if deficient?

Thanks RUCKING FETARD. A CQ10 supplement is available but as it is very expensive it is preferable to have testing done first. (I've gone through years of trying various supplements and whereas some of them might help a bit, none of them have got to the root of the problem).
Also for it to work effectively it needs to be taken with other supplements. I'd have no problem giving it a go but not financially viable for me at the moment.

Dave!

Before spending money on supplements you should talk to your doctor and find out if the supplements actually work for your condition, otherwise you'll end up wasting your money.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/health/2011/1011/1224305573531.html

Does it work? Can coenzyme Q10 treat neurodegenerative diseases?

DÓNAL O'MATHÚNA

Tue, Oct 11, 2011

BACKGROUND: Neurodegenerative diseases are characterised by damage to nerve cells. They include Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s and Huntington’s diseases, and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS). Each has somewhat different symptoms, but they are related in having a significant impact on mental health. They also have similar underlying defects that involve mitochondria and oxidant levels.

Mitochondria are the “power houses” of all cells. Coenzyme Q10, also called CoQ10 or ubiquinone, is required for mitochondria to work properly and is an antioxidant. People normally produce enough CoQ10, but can get small amounts from foods such as oily fish, liver and whole grains.

Numerous claims have been made about the benefits of CoQ10 supplementation. These initially focused on improving energy levels and treating heart failure. With the connection made between neurodegenerative diseases and mitochondria, attention has focused on using CoQ10 to prevent or treat these disorders.

The link between CoQ10 and Parkinson’s disease was made through a tragic chance discovery. In 1982, six young adults from Southern California were diagnosed with Parkinson’s disease. The real-life CSI-like story identified the cause as a contaminant in an illegal “designer drug” they had all used. This story is documented in The Case of the Frozen Addicts.

The contaminant was called MPTP and has since become an important tool in research on Parkinson’s. Part of what was discovered is that MPTP has its damaging effects within the mitochondria in the same processes that require CoQ10. This led to much interest in whether supplemental CoQ10 could prevent or treat the mitochondrial damage that underlies this group of neurological disorders.

EVIDENCE FROM STUDIES

CoQ10 was shown to slow down the damaging effects of MPTP given to rats. Other animal research produced promising results with other neurodegenerative diseases. Then 80 patients in the early stages of Parkinson’s were enrolled in a randomised, double-blind study. Those taking 1200mg CoQ10 had significantly slower deterioration over 16 months. But a larger study (with 131 patients) found no significant differences between those taking CoQ10 or a placebo. Other trials have found that while patients’ CoQ10 levels are increased with supplements, symptoms did not improve.

To provide more clear-cut evidence, the US National Institutes of Health funded the largest controlled trial in this area, of 600 people with Parkinson’s. The study was terminated after an interim analysis showed that it would be futile to continue. The conclusion was that CoQ10 provided no benefits to Parkinson’s patients.

Huntington’s disease also involves mitochondrial defects, but their precise role is unclear. A randomised controlled trial with more than 300 Huntington’s disease patients found some beneficial effects from CoQ10 compared to placebo. But the differences between the groups were small and not statistically significant. This study used a daily 600mg dose and further research has focused on whether higher doses are safe in patients with Huntington’s. Results suggested that 2,400mg/day is safe.

PROBLEMATIC ASPECTS

CoQ10 has been found to be safe in clinical trials. The most common adverse effects are gastrointestinal, affecting less than one per cent of people. The most common symptoms are nausea, diarrhoea or heartburn.

RECOMMENDATIONS

CoQ10 is a powerful antioxidant, so supplements may be generally beneficial. People normally produce sufficient CoQ10, although some have a rare genetic disorder where CoQ10 production is insufficient. CoQ10 supplements benefit such patients, but the underlying connection between neurodegenerative diseases, mitochondria and CoQ10 is suggestive. Clinical trials have not provided clear evidence of benefit, especially for those with Parkinson’s disease. Whether CoQ10 will be beneficial for those with other neurodegenerative diseases remains to be seen.

Dónal O’Mathúna has a PhD in pharmacy, researching herbal remedies, and an MA in bioethics, and is a senior lecturer in the School of Nursing Human Sciences at DCU

© 2011 The Irish Times

That's the first article I found on Google. It may indeed work, but exercise caution because AFAIK the supplement industry is pretty unregulated in this country.

RUCKING FETARD

http://www.evergreen.ie/eskimo-brainsharp/p-933337pd.aspx

^^Great stuff. CQ10, Vit D, Vit E and Omega 3,6 and 9 in "proper ratios". Pharmaceutical grade, several trials done on it.

Splendour

Dave! wrote: »

Before spending money on supplements you should talk to your doctor and find out if the supplements actually work for your condition, otherwise you'll end up wasting your money.

Thanks for that article Dave-I have spent a fortune on supplements over the years.
My Doc unfortunately doesn't seem to be up on my condition or meds that might help; I mentioned Armour Thyroid to her a couple of years ago and she'd never heard of it.

RUCKING FETARD wrote: »

http://www.evergreen.ie/eskimo-brainsharp/p-933337pd.aspx

^^Great stuff. CQ10, Vit D, Vit E and Omega 3,6 and 9 in "proper ratios". Pharmaceutical grade, several trials done on it.

Thanks, been there done that. I eat extremely healthily, with no gluten, dairy, sugar, excercise when I can, take vitamins etc and whereas I think it all helps, I still can't get to the root of the problem.

Thanks guys for your posts; all information is good and I appreciate you taking the time to post.

locum-motion

Splendour wrote: »

... I mentioned Armour Thyroid to her a couple of years ago and she'd never heard of it
...

Armour Thyroid is a brand name product that is marketed, to the best of my knowledge, on an entirely different continent. It certainly isn't a licenced medicinal product in this country. I find nothing at all surprising in an Irish GP not being familiar with it.

Splendour

locum-motion wrote: »

Armour Thyroid is a brand name product that is marketed, to the best of my knowledge, on an entirely different continent. It certainly isn't a licenced medicinal product in this country. I find nothing at all surprising in an Irish GP not being familiar with it.

A couple of other Doctors I attended had heard of Armour Thyroid. Until recently, I thought all Doctors kept themselves informed of new medications available.

locum-motion

Splendour wrote: »

A couple of other Doctors I attended had heard of Armour Thyroid. Until recently, I thought all Doctors kept themselves informed of new medications available.

That was my point: it is not a new medication available. It's not new, and it's not available (at least, not in this country).

Splendour

locum-motion wrote: »

That was my point: it is not a new medication available. It's not new, and it's not available (at least, not in this country).

You're right, it's not new but rather 'rediscovered'. It was used by It's not available in this country (though I remember ringing the medicine board about it and if a Doctor requests a medication and it is approved by them then it can be made available.)

RUCKING FETARD

Splendour wrote: »

A couple of other Doctors I attended had heard of Armour Thyroid. Until recently, I thought all Doctors kept themselves informed of new medications available.

You'd imagine they would wouldn't you.

New scheme that started only a year ago to assess and make sure Docs reach a certain level of competency.

Long overdue.

RobFowl

Splendour wrote: »

Until recently, I thought all Doctors kept themselves informed of new medications available.

We try !
Some much changing all the time can be hard though. Non prescription drugs/supplements can be harder to keep your seld informed about though.
Thats an area where pharmacists are an incredibly valuable resource.

Splendour

RobFowl wrote: »

We try !
Some much changing all the time can be hard though. Non prescription drugs/supplements can be harder to keep your seld informed about though.
Thats an area where pharmacists are an incredibly valuable resource.

Can't imagine it's easy but maybe even an online discussion board to keep in touch with other GP's who may be informed of unfamiliar symptoms/new drugs etc could be a start. Basically a sharing of new (or old) information.

RobFowl

Splendour wrote: »

Can't imagine it's easy but maybe even an online discussion board to keep in touch with other GP's who may be informed of unfamiliar symptoms/new drugs etc could be a start. Basically a sharing of new (or old) information.

We have a few closed ones which help.
That said always a little suspicious of some supplements as inrealistic claims are often made based on limited if any evidence. Have not seen any studies which show Co-enzyme Q is of benefit in CFS (Chronic fatigue syndrome is the more correct term for ME (Myalgic Encephalitis)).
Ps not denying it is a very real condtion btw. Very much a real entity IMO and treatment is very difficult.

crazy dude

I'd find it hard to believe Co Q 10 makes it into your mitochondrial electron transport chain but I would believe mitochondria might be part of neurodegenerative diseases cos Selegeline is meant to work at the level of mitochondria in parksinsons and is somewhat neuroprotective. I've often wondered why no one trials this in diabetic neuropathies?

Splendour

RobFowl wrote: »

We have a few closed ones which help.
That said always a little suspicious of some supplements as inrealistic claims are often made based on limited if any evidence. Have not seen any studies which show Co-enzyme Q is of benefit in CFS (Chronic fatigue syndrome is the more correct term for ME (Myalgic Encephalitis)).
Ps not denying it is a very real condtion btw. Very much a real entity IMO and treatment is very difficult.

Have been doing some reading on this http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Main_Page website which is a mindful of info on this subject. This piece http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/CFS_-_The_Central_Cause:_Mitochondrial_Failure in particular I found very interesting and seems to make sense.