Limerick v Tipperary U-21 Hurling - Wed July 18th

grenache

Anybody have the teams? Should be a cracker

cgpg5

All I know is Hannon is playing centre back. With the majority of last year's Munster championship winning side and top players like Hannon, Downes, and Dowling Limerick should have too much for a Tipp side who did well to get over Cork in the first round.

premierstone

cgpg5 wrote: »

All I know is Hannon is playing centre back. With the majority of last year's Munster championship winning side and top players like Hannon, Downes, and Dowling Limerick should have too much for a Tipp side who did well to get over Cork in the first round.

Strangely enough though you were using the minor championshbip of 2009 as a barometer for this championship recently, Tipp beat limerick in that by 1-22 to 0-9

I think Limerick will win tonight aswell btw just highlighting to you that minor three years previous is completely irrelevant.

Tipp are missing Paudie Heffernan, Ruairi Gleeson, David Collins, Thomas Butler and Jason Forde all through injury, so it would be a big shock if they were to win this.

premierstone

This is the Tipp line up btw -

1. Paul Ryan (Upperchurch Drombane)
2. Stephen Maher (Thurles Sarsfields)
3. Andrew Ryan (Toomevara)
4. Pa Ryan (Clonakenny)
5. Willie Ryan (Clonakenny)
6. Brian Stapleton (Templederry Kenyons)
7. Justin Cahill (Kilruane MacDonaghs)
8. Denis Maher (Thurles Sarsfields)
9. Dan McCormack (Borris-Ileigh)
10.John O’Dwyer (Killenaule) Captain
11. Sean Curran (Mullinahone)
12. Niall O’Meara (Kilruane MacDonaghs)
13. Eanna Murray (Templederry Kenyons)
14. Cian Hogan (Lorrha & Dorrha)
15. Liam McGrath (Loughmore Castleiney)

Brian Stapelton is a brother of Tom, Sean Curran a brother of Paul, Niall O'Meara a brother of Buggy and Liam McGrath is Noel's cousin - so plenty of good pedigree anyway

cgpg5

premierstone wrote: »

Strangely enough though you were using the minor championshbip of 2009 as a barometer for this championship recently, Tipp beat limerick in that by 1-22 to 0-9

I think Limerick will win tonight aswell btw just highlighting to you that minor three years previous is completely irrelevant.

Tipp are missing Paudie Heffernan, Ruairi Gleeson, David Collins, Thomas Butler and Jason Forde all through injury, so it would be a big shock if they were to win this.

Ha what's this?

If you're referring to the point I made about Galway winning minor 3 years ago I just added that to a list of their credentials I didn't use it as a basis for believing they'd win the AI! The fact that they've 18 senior panellists and are reigning champs were the 2 main factors I mentioned

I never used it as a barometer

ReacherCreature

LIMERICK (U21HC semi-final v Tipperary): A Murphy; A Dempsey, D Morrissey, S O’Reilly; R Egan, D Hannon, T Ryan; S Kenny, S O’Brien; S Dowling, N Kennedy, M Carmody; M Ryan, K Downes, W Griffin.

cgpg5

Gee what a start by Tipp. Like a team posessed. Lot of ball straight into the FF line which the Limerick defenders are finding tough to handle. Tipp are playing at some level of intensity!

ShamoBuc

Luimneach 0-7 1-6 Tiobraid Á. - ht

Forgot about this one. Great to be watching a good game hurling midweek - TG4, mandatory viewing for the second half I think.

cgpg5

Good match. ref has been poor but have been very impressed with Tipp. Not many stand out individuals but everyone is working very hard to get the ball back and to engineer chances. High ball into Limerick FF line is causing damage.

Downes has shown glimpses but they've handled him well. Hannon is sweeping up mighty. Tbh though Tipp could probably be a good bit more ahead only for some very questionable frees given to Limerick.

Mountainlad

Denis Maher is living up to the hype, but he like a few other Tipp players has been guilty of poor shooting/decision making. Hannon is a joy to watch in full flow. Tom Ryan the other wing back showing up well too, as is Justin Cahill for Tipp.

Great point by Sean Curran there, hardly seen Bubbles all night but his skills evident there. Tipp really should be further ahead, think the ref has been good and I'm used to giving out about him at club games like.

klose

It's been all tipp so far in the 2nd half

cgpg5

Tipp's to lose from here. The difference in intensity between the two sides is remarkable. This looks a well coached Tipp side who could well be out of sight but for some silly wides

cgpg5

Tiobraid Arann 1-16 Luimneach 1-11

For anyone that didn't watch that scoreline completely flatters Limerick. They were well beaten by a more determined and simply far better side on the day. Great performance by Tipp, very disappointing by Limerick. This Tipp team will not be easy beat. Two mighty wins against the odds v Cork and Limerick

Mountainlad

cgpg5 wrote: »

Tiobraid Arann 1-16 Luimneach 1-11

For anyone that didn't watch that scoreline completely flatters Limerick. They were well beaten by a more determined and simply far better side on the day. Great performance by Tipp, very disappointing by Limerick. This Tipp team will not be easy beat. Two mighty wins against the odds v Cork and Limerick

They won't win anything easy, with two good side left in Munster on the other side as well as Galway and Kilkenny waiting in the wings!

cgpg5

Mountainlad wrote: »

They won't win anything easy, with two good side left in Munster on the other side as well as Galway and Kilkenny waiting in the wings!

Don't expect them to win another game but just saying they won't be easy beat. They're basically in an AI semi though!

Mountainlad

cgpg5 wrote: »

Don't expect them to win another game but just saying they won't be easy beat. They're basically in an AI semi though!

I would agree they won't be easily beaten, but other than that I have no idea what you're on about. How are they basically in an all-ireland semi final? Serious underestimation of Clare and Waterford here. Both those sides have several players playing for there Senior team. Tipp have only a few even on the panel. I think the Munster Final will be a much better game. Also, how can you say you don't expect them to win another game, but that they're basically in an all-ireland semi final? Definitely a contradiction in there.

Spudmonkey

Limerick were completely woeful. That scoreline flatters them. Tipp superior all over the pitch.

cgpg5

Mountainlad wrote: »

I would agree they won't be easily beaten, but other than that I have no idea what you're on about. How are they basically in an all-ireland semi final? Serious underestimation of Clare and Waterford here. Both those sides have several players playing for there Senior team. Tipp have only a few even on the panel. I think the Munster Final will be a much better game. Also, how can you say you don't expect them to win another game, but that they're basically in an all-ireland semi final? Definitely a contradiction in there.

They're basically in an AI semi final given that the Munster final is basically an AI semi final. Antrim will more than likely be a handy victory for whoever wins the Munster final. Similarly whoever wins tomorrow is basically in an AI semi!

Mountainlad

cgpg5 wrote: »

They're basically in an AI semi final given that the Munster final is basically an AI semi final. Antrim will more than likely be a handy victory for whoever wins the Munster final. Similarly whoever wins tomorrow is basically in an AI semi!

Ah right, sorry didn't realize that was what you meant.

soccymonster

Sweet mother of god, Limerick were woeful tonight.
Tipp had alot of wides which let the scoreline flatter Limerick alot. Tipp were first to nearly every ball and the way Limerick played was just... flat. It seemed like there was no determination there at all I don't know what happened. Thought Dempsey and our number 7 (?) played well though. bleh, so disappointed.

You could tell Shane Dowling was wrecked even if his free taking was still spot on. Playing 70 mins against Clare on Saturday and now a very very important match less than 2 weeks away. Hope he gets plenty of rest..

Ill be honest i thought with their senior experience and the fact that alot of that Limerick team won Munster last year that we could potentially be beaten out the gate tonight. Great performance from our lads. Great to see Jason Forde come on. What a class act he is and will only get better.

As for Limerick they looked a bit jaded perhaps after the Clare game and perhaps they may have one eye on that quarter with Kilkenny and to be honest i felt Tipp wanted it that bit more so hence the result.

yohan the great

I thought limerick were hyped up far too much just because they have alot of senior panelists. Dowling and Downes were both poor. If you remember back a few years tipp hammered this limerick team at minor

yohan the great

yohan the great wrote: »

I thought limerick were hyped up far too much just because they have alot of senior panelists. Dowling and Downes were both poor. If you remember back a few years tipp hammered this limerick team at minor

Id have thought at least the bit of exposure to senior and experience they have gained would have helped Limerick greatly. they are a fiercely talented side no doubt and yes they did take a trimming at minor level in 2009 which might have psychologically had impact tonight but in fairness 1 year can make an awful difference let alone 3 and what immediately struck me was the fact that a class forward like Hannon was moved to centre back. Last year Tipp done it with Noel McGrath and it set off alarm bells that maybe we had no one better in there to say we were resorting to this.

yohan the great

Ya moving hannon back was strange. He hit a lot of ball but on a dry night seanie curran would have got six or seven points from play

shockframe

I was very disappointed with the Limerick display last night but at the same time it may not be a bad thing in the long run that they hype surrounding this group has been put in its place.

Tipp hammered us in minor 3 years ago so the predictions of an easy limerick win were misguided.People can point to Ard Scoil Ris' success in the harty cup but what most failed to remember is that it took 3 games to beat thurles cbs in the 2010 harty cup final who had players like denis maher on that team.ASR cant carry limerick hurling on their own.Tipp have 3 schools that are nearly ever presents in the harty cup - thurles,nenagh cbs and templemore so they have a better chance than us of progressing at inter county.we are lucky to have had ard scoil ris as there had been no school for most of the 00's serious contenders.ASR could have up to 1/3 of their team from clubs in clare so that too must be considered.

until we have 2/3 schools competing for quarter final spots in the harty we are likely to fall short at inter county.

Limerick dont handle the favourites tag well.its interesting that last year they beat clare in last years 21 just 2 days after losing to dublin in the senior.the opposite has happened this year.

our hurling was terrible at times.striking was poor and was like 25-30 years ago with the clearances straight down the middle without any thought of playing a ball into the corner to exploit potential weaknesses.over reliance on the 3 established players.alan dempsey was about the best of the players but the others never got to the pace of the game.The rest looked clueless.serious questions must be asked about the preparation of this team.

shockframe

shockframe wrote: »

I was very disapoointed with the Limerick display last night but at the same time it may not be a bad thing in the long run that they hype surrounding this group has been put in its place.

Tipp hammered us in minor 3 years ago so the predictions of an easy limerick win were misguided.People can point to Ard Scoil Ris' success in the harty cup but what most failed to remember is that it took 3 games to beat thurles cbs in the 2010 harty cup final who had players like denis maher on that team.ASR cant carry limerick hurling on their own.Tipp have 3 schools that are nearly ever presents in the harty cup - thurles,nenagh cbs and templemore so they have a better chance than us of progressing at inter county.we are lucky to have had ard scoil ris as there had been no school for most of the 00's serious contenders.ASR could have up to 1/3 of their team from clubs in clare so that too must be considered.

until we have 2/3 schools competing for quarter final spots in the harty we are likely to fall short at inter county.

Limerick dont handle the favourites tag well.its interesting that last year they beat clare in last years 21 just 2 days after losing to dublin in the senior.the opposite has happened this year.

our hurling was terrible at times.striking was poor and was like 25-30 years ago with the clearances straight down the middle without any thought of playing a ball into the corner to exploit potential weaknesses.over reliance on the 3 established players.alan dempsey was about the best of the players but the others never got to the pace of the game.The rest looked clueless.serious questions must be asked about the preparation of this team.

Granted Tipp did win at minor but 3 years is an eternity in hurling and since then alot of those Limerick players have benefitted from the tutelage of both Donal O'Grady and John Allen who are both shrewd men.

Granted our own senior panel must also be strong when the likes of Denis Maher and Bubbles O'Dwyer cant break onto it (personally i think both should be on it) and perhaps last nights result wasnt such a surprise but i thought the experience that alot of those Limerick guys have gained over the last 2-3 years at senior level and the fact they put alot of teams including ourselves in late May to the pin of their collar would swing it for Limerick

shockframe

Deleted User wrote: »

Granted Tipp did win at minor but 3 years is an eternity in hurling and since then alot of those Limerick players have benefitted from the tutelage of both Donal O'Grady and John Allen who are both shrewd men.

Granted our own senior panel must also be strong when the likes of Denis Maher and Bubbles O'Dwyer cant break onto it (personally i think both should be on it) and perhaps last nights result wasnt such a surprise but i thought the experience that alot of those Limerick guys have gained over the last 2-3 years at senior level and the fact they put alot of teams including ourselves in late May to the pin of their collar would swing it for Limerick

That minor result was still significant and showed that Tipp could hurt us even with the high expectations in Limerick.

We havent beaten tipp in under 21 for 10 years so that too should have been considered.

The 21s of 2 years ago make up a large part of tipps senior panel now so the likes of maher and o dwyer have suffered with those players around.2 good hurlers but wouldnt be sure of either making the first 15. Liam Mcgrath looked handy enough in the 2nd half.

Last night was the first big failure for what you could call the ASR generation.In the long run thats no bad thing.I was impressed by Tipps workrate and getting bodies around to curb any scoring threat.the final against cork last year was a very open game of hurling whereas last night was more like a senior game with tactics in evidence.we didnt seem to have any, tipp did which was a factor in our defeat.

our players need to hurl like that because fancy hurling wont be enough to win any all ireland.for instance dowling was surrounded by 3/4 clare backs when he got the ball last saturday but there was few to support him and we coughed up a lot of possession.

the 3 in a row side of 2000-2002 escaped a lot of close games which did them a disservice by the time they moved on to senior so a defeat like this reminds us there still needs a lot of work to be done.

premierstone

shockframe wrote: »

That minor result was still significant and showed that Tipp could hurt us even with the high expectations in Limerick.

Everybody keeps mentioning that minor result but ift was completely irrelevant to last night, Limerick had 6 players playing last night that played in that game 3 years ago, it was a completly new team. Tipp incidently only have 9 survivors from 3 years, although a few of their changes were due to injuries.

ReacherCreature

Must look at this in the context of future matches. A lot of senior lads were on the team (some starters, some on the bench) and probably had Kilkenny on their minds. Tipperary played with great intensity (or so I read) and Limerick were flat. Some of the seniors probably wanted to stay fit for Kilkenny.

shockframe

shockframe wrote: »

That minor result was still significant and showed that Tipp could hurt us even with the high expectations in Limerick.

We havent beaten tipp in under 21 for 10 years so that too should have been considered.

The 21s of 2 years ago make up a large part of tipps senior panel now so the likes of maher and o dwyer have suffered with those players around.2 good hurlers but wouldnt be sure of either making the first 15. Liam Mcgrath looked handy enough in the 2nd half.

Last night was the first big failure for what you could call the ASR generation.In the long run thats no bad thing.I was impressed by Tipps workrate and getting bodies around to curb any scoring threat.the final against cork last year was a very open game of hurling whereas last night was more like a senior game with tactics in evidence.we didnt seem to have any, tipp did which was a factor in our defeat.

our players need to hurl like that because fancy hurling wont be enough to win any all ireland.for instance dowling was surrounded by 3/4 clare backs when he got the ball last saturday but there was few to support him and we coughed up a lot of possession.

the 3 in a row side of 2000-2002 escaped a lot of close games which did them a disservice by the time they moved on to senior so a defeat like this reminds us there still needs a lot of work to be done.

Perhaps it had some psychological impact on Limerick but otherwise it is pure irrelevant as premierstone suggested. 3 years have passed and the players have gained or not gained big game experience. Better strength and conditioning also in the meantime and i would have expected Limerick to have been flying with confidence. Perhaps a little of one eye on the KK game and going forward maybe they feel a good go at the Cats is more beneficial then winning a munster u21

grenache

I couldn't attend as i was working but my father gave the following verdict:

1. Limerick just couldn't match Tipp's level of intensity. He thinks they got cocky and thought all they had to do was turn up. Apart from Dowling and Downes, and Dempsey, they were poor. The senior players on the team had not even trained with the rest of the 21s from what my father has been told. I'm nearly certain some of the seniors were minding themselves. They just didn't seem up for it.

2. Its never a good sign of things to come when you see the words 'Limerick' and 'hot favourites'. I always sense disaster coming when i see these words. We hurl better as underdogs, we don't yet have the confidence to hurl with the favourites tag against any of the BIG 3.

3. Tipp drove a serious amount of wides, thinks they should have won by 10 points or more. In Maher and McGrath they have two outstanding players. Having Limerick as 'hot favourites' was ridiculous and so proved.

premierstone

grenache wrote: »

I couldn't attend as i was working but my father gave the following verdict:

1. Limerick just couldn't match Tipp's level of intensity. He thinks they got cocky and thought all they had to do was turn up. Apart from Dowling and Downes, and Dempsey, they were poor. The senior players on the team had not even trained with the rest of the 21s from what my father has been told. I'm nearly certain some of the seniors were minding themselves. They just didn't seem up for it.

2. Its never a good sign of things to come when you see the words 'Limerick' and 'hot favourites'. I always sense disaster coming when i see these words. We hurl better as underdogs, we don't yet have the confidence to hurl with the favourites tag against any of the BIG 3.

3. Tipp drove a serious amount of wides, thinks they should have won by 10 points or more. In Maher and McGrath they have two outstanding players. Having Limerick as 'hot favourites' was ridiculous and so proved.

1. Yeah Tipp were far more intense and committed on the night, but I would disagree re. Dowling he did absolutely nothing from play, yes he was exemplary from frees but that waqs kind of a gven! Tom Ryan the wing back deserves a emention he was very very good.

2. To be fair Limerick deserved to be favourites on paper, but as an old coach of mine used to remind us regualrly, Hurling is played on grass not paper, Tipp were far more organised and seemed to have been better coached and actually had a game plan, Limerick seemed to hurl as a group of individuals, and a number of them uninterested.

3. Tipp had 18 wides which is criminal really and as you said should have won alot more comfortably, Maher was very very good but he can be extremely inconsistent, McGrath is a special talent alright, he was minor football captain last year and has a very bright future, but really the backs were the key to this win, Justin Cahill and the two Ryans from Clonakenny were outstanding.

premierstone

premierstone wrote: »

1. Yeah Tipp were far more intense and committed on the night, but I would disagree re. Dowling he did absolutely nothing from play, yes he was exemplary from frees but that waqs kind of a gven! Tom Ryan the wing back deserves a emention he was very very good.

2. To be fair Limerick deserved to be favourites on paper, but as an old coach of mine used to remind us regualrly, Hurling is played on grass not paper, Tipp were far more organised and seemed to have been better coached and actually had a game plan, Limerick seemed to hurl as a group of individuals, and a number of them uninterested.

3. Tipp had 18 wides which is criminal really and as you said should have won alot more comfortably, Maher was very very good but he can be extremely inconsistent, McGrath is a special talent alright, he was minor football captain last year and has a very bright future, but really the backs were the key to this win, Justin Cahill and the two Ryans from Clonakenny were outstanding.

I seen Willie Ryan mark Walter Walsh in a challenge in Gortnahoe back on May 27th. Walter beat him ends up to the first ball but Willie batted everything down after that and hammered him. Great man to break a ball but i felt no one anticipated them down in Cork the night and they got scores from the few breaks

ReacherCreature

Eighteen wides? That's disgraceful. Those balls need to be put over, even if you send halve of them for points, that's something. But it says a lot about Limerick that we put eighteen shots wide and still won. Limerick should have been jumping on that deficit.

premierstone

ReacherCreature wrote: »

Eighteen wides? That's disgraceful. Those balls need to be put over, even if you send halve of them for points, that's something. But it says a lot about Limerick that we put eighteen shots wide and still won. Limerick should have been jumping on that deficit.

There really is no excusing it, but conditions were poor, and tbh Seanie Curran hit 5 or 6 of them off Hannon and once he was winning ball off Hannon I was happy enough, as I said before a couple of Tipps forwards are missing through injury and If one or two of them are back that will hopefully improve things, Jason Forde and Ruairi Gleeson should be back anyway, not sure about the rest.

ReacherCreature

I'm not totally keyed into the guys on the squad but do you think there's any that can make the transition to senior level effectively?

premierstone

ReacherCreature wrote: »

I'm not totally keyed into the guys on the squad but do you think there's any that can make the transition to senior level effectively?

Seanie Curran is the only one currently on the Senior panel, I would imagine Bubbles O'Dwyer will be very shortly, Denis Maher is a wonderful hurler and big and strong, but very inconsistent If he could find some consistency he could be a real star, Justin Cahill while not physically very big is a real stylist and a lovely hurler, Niall O'Meara could make it as he has a wonderfull work rate, aka Bonner, and of course Liam McGrath has real potential, I made a prediction actually recently that We may well see a Tipp senior FF line in a few years of Noel, Liam and John McGrath - two brothers and a first cousin.

Jason Forde is young enough yet but bags of talent.

premierstone

Deleted User wrote: »

Jason Forde is young enough yet but bags of talent.

Not completly convinced tbh, no doubt he's got ability and is an amazing free-taker to boot, just having seen him play quite a bit of club hurling he would leave alot to be desired, not for a second saying he wont make it, just think he has been over hyped a bit after Nenagh CBS's win.

Henno30

Thought Tipp looked very well coached and well organised the other night. Basic skill level held up much better in the greasy conditions compared to Limerick who looked to be relying on a direct, high intensity game. When that didn't work they weren't capable of doing anything else.