€1000 down after Credit Card & Current A/C cards stolen - Banks not refunding

van damme

Hi All,

Need some advice here. Basically, I was in Spain with my wife recently and her wallet was stolen on the last day - we reckon we noticed it missing about 25 minutes or so after it was stolen (my wife has used her credit card in a shop about half an hour previously, so this is when we had it last). We cancelled the credit cards and current account cards as soon as we realised that they were missing.

Unfortunately, the credit card (chip & PIN) and current account card had already been used in an ATM machine - 2 transactions for €300 on the credit card, and also 2 transactions on the current account card (€450) i.e. over €1000 in total!! What a great end to the holiday!!

Visa were in touch today to say that they will not be refunding the €600 on the credit card as my wife must have been negligent with her PIN number, thus breaking the terms and conditions on her account (based on this, I can only assume that we won't get the money back on the current account also). They said she must have had her PIN written down (which she definitely didn't) or else someone "shouldered" her (their term) and saw her PIN number when she used it. Now, my wife only used her Credit Card once on the whole holiday (just before the wallet was stolen) and I was standing beside her and there was no one near us at the time (except the sales assistant, obviously). How could the thieves have gotten the PIN number?

Not sure what to do here and what our rights are. I don't see how they can say my wife was negligent with her PIN and thus not refund the money.

Also, my wife had left her phone at home that day, but when we got back there was a voicemail from Visa saying that there was suspicious activity on her card and to get in touch - this call actually came in about 5 minutes before my wife cancelled her card, so they spotted the suspicious activity and are now saying it's her own fault and not refunding the money. We had (perhaps naiively) assumed based on this that we would get the money back.

Any suggestions on what our rights are and what we should do now? Obviously we're out of pocket by over €1000 which none of us can afford in these times. I know some people may think it's her own fault and should have been more careful with her wallet, but she actually is pretty careful about these things and not sure how it was stolen.

Thanks

mitosis

If both cards had their pin numbers compromised it would seem your wife has suffered extraordinary bad luck.

My mother has a little label on the back of each card with her pin on it. Seriously :eek:

If you are certain your wife had no part in the numbers being learned by the thief you must continue to pressure the bank etc, even to the ombudsman.

Savman

If she used it in the shop and was observed entering her PIN...well that's a bummer.

What bank is it? I'm assuming the PIN verification gets them off the hook.

van damme

Thanks for the replies. Both cards are Bank of Ireland.

I honestly don't know how she could have been observed using her PIN in the shop as there was no one near to her at the time - I was standing directly behind her and there was no one else near the counter at the time.

Someone mentioned that it's possible to get someone's PIN from a stolen card using some sort of device - is that possible?

homer911

Any holiday insurance? - depending on the cover, this can cover you for fraudulent card transactions

BuffyBot

van damme wrote: »

Someone mentioned that it's possible to get someone's PIN from a stolen card using some sort of device - is that possible?

That would kind of defeat the point of having a PIN

Savman

van damme wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. Both cards are Bank of Ireland.

I honestly don't know how she could have been observed using her PIN in the shop as there was no one near to her at the time - I was standing directly behind her and there was no one else near the counter at the time.

Someone mentioned that it's possible to get someone's PIN from a stolen card using some sort of device - is that possible?

I think you both need to retrace your steps, sounds like they seen/obtained her PIN and knew to steal her wallet afterwards, withdrawing cash before they knew she'd notice.

Pretty slick operation all things considered, no consolation to you I know but I think you will have a hard time winning this with the bank when a transaction or withdrawal has been verified by PIN. Can you retrace your steps in the minutes or hours leading up to the theft? Think long and hard, there has to be something you've overlooked.

flamelily

just a question but is her PIN the same for her VISA and her bank card?? I used to work for a bank and was involved in some fraud investigations and the amount of people who have the same PIN for all their cards is unreal!!! :eek:

The person who stole the wallet could have observed her using the PIN on the bank link card and chanced their arm that the same PIN was set for the visa?

not much help in getting your money back though as once the pin is used the bank sort of have a get outta jail free clause to not pay out!!! as painful as it is I now have a different pin for each of my cards after seeing how people have been scammed for thousands by keeping the same PIN for all cards!!!

Teagwee

I watched a programme on TV earlier this evening (can't remember what station) and there was a report on it about police in UK seizing dodgy retail ATM machines that had bluetooth technology implanted. It seems the gang were about to replace genuine ATMs in various stores - the shops and the banks couldn't identify the tampered machines, all of them looked and behaved just like normal ones.
The reporter and a few experts speculated that quite a number of these machines had been planted in outlets in Europe. Banks, they said, would never admit that this was possible/happening due to the likelihood of a plethora of fraudulent claims. Perhaps you were a victim of one of these? How you could prove it is another story - do you know what shop you used in Barcelona? Tall order to check now, I know ... I really sympathise

Xavi6

There is the possibility that the machine in which she used her card had a skimming device attached to it so it would be worth investigating that angle. Contact the shop and find out who the merchant bank is as they would have provided the machine, it could be compromised.

Other than that, as said, keep pressuring the bank and threaten the ombudsman. It's all you've really got at the moment.

van damme

Appreciate all the replies guys. Think we'll just have to keep putting the pressure on the bank and perhaps get in touch with the Ombudsman.

BuffyBot

You need to obtain a final resolution from the bank before you can bring it to the Ombudsman. I'll move this to the Talk to Bank of Ireland forum, as the folks there maybe able to put you in touch with someone at BOI who can try and resolve this amicably for you.

van damme

Thank you BuffyBot!

dirtyden

Will your holiday insurance cover it?

Might be worth a shot getting in touch with them as well. You ill need to report the cards as stolen though.

Bank of Ireland: Billy

Hi van damme,

Sorry to hear about your wife's stolen wallet while you were in Spain. Our Credit Card Fraud Department would be the department who would investigate the matter for you. Each case would be looked at individually and they would then contact the card holder directly. We do not have access to account information so unfortunately we cannot look into the case from here.

If you need to discuss the matter further, please call Credit Card Services on the following numbers and an agent will put you through to the Fraud Department:

ROI: 1890 251 251
NI/GB : 0845 309 8099
International: + 353 56 775 7747

I hope this helps

Billy

Shifty

I saw this article in the Daily Mail and it reminded me of reading your thread, did you get it resolved?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2180849/Hackers-steal-details-chip-PIN-machines-used-shops-restaurants.html

van damme

Nothing resolved yet. BOI firmly sticking to the line that because the cards were used with valid PINs, then it's our own fault.
Looks like we'll have to take this to the Ombudsman.
Thanks again for all the comments and feedback.