Rows over tidying up

LegacyUser

I would say I have a really good relationship with my long-term OH. Same goals, same interests, great life, great friends, etc.

But we're very different in one respect: attention to keeping our house tidy. I'm by no means perfect, but I make an effort to keep the house both tidy and clean (perhaps unusual, as I'm the man in this relationship). She, by contrast, has much lower standards and awareness in this regard. I work in an office, she works at home half the time and outside the home the other half.

I suppose I'm looking for perspective because it's been happening a lot lately.

I like where we live, and I like nothing more than to come home to our lovely house. I like to sit back, make some dinner, get some stuff done, watch TV/talk and hit the sack. We also like having friends over from time to time.

However, it affects me when I come home and the place is messy. It's hard to appreciate this without getting specific. Here are some examples:
- In the past, she didn't see a problem with a bottom fridge tray being 1-2cm deep in some unspecified, rancid gooey white fluid
- I remarked that she might pick up a lump of butter she dropped on the floor but did not mention it again - it stayed there for three weeks
- I empty the bins regularly, but sometimes I'm not around and I frequently come home and the whole downstairs smells of rancid garbage; she often doesn't think to open windows
- Countertops, covered in crumbs, butter and grease often go without being wiped down
- Rather than put kitchen stuff, books, files, magazines, anything else on shelves or in specific storage places for files, etc., everything goes in a pile in the corner of the sitting room.
[- I actually don't care if she stores her clothes in a pile in the corner of our bedroom, so long as my side is the way I like it.]

I dunno, it goes on. Needless to say, I do a lot of these to avoid the embarrassing problems associated with not cleaning up a little bit all the time. But I can't do it all and don't feel I should. I feel a little insulted that the care and attention I try to pay to enjoying living in this place isn't returned.

I feel I've tried every way to reach her about this.

Or maybe it's me who is a mental neat freak. But I feel that examples like the above, which are characteristic of the the ongoing thing. All I want is a fair balance so we can just get on with things and rely on each other, which in all other ways is great. Am I totally unreasonable to expect my partner to join me in living in a house that's not full of rancid smells, must, mess and gunk? Because if it's me at fault, I'd like a perspective on that.

Beruthiel

phreakyneatie wrote: »

Or maybe it's me who is a mental neat freak.

Expecting your g/f to pick up butter she dropped on the floor three weeks ago is not a neat freak, it's basic hygiene.

Your g/f has a major home hygiene problem.
Personally, I would have lost the rag with her ages ago. I can't stand people who are quite happy to live in their own filth, it tells me everything I need to know about them.
By the time you reach adulthood, you should be house trained.

You say you have tried to discuss this with her, what has been her response?
Have ye divided the house chores and done up a rota?
Have ye discussed 'clean as you go'?

LegacyUser

Oh gosh OP, this sounds like a nightmare. When I read the first few lines I presumed that you were the female. Sorry, lol. It just goes to show that untidiness/messiness is not based on gender. Was she spoilt by her parents growing up? Or maybe they are just as slobby? I suppose at the start you probably thought it was cute and not a major deal but as time goes on it's grating on you it could ruin your relationship. You need to speak up now! Sit her down and tell her that she needs to start meeting you halfway-she must start tidying up after herself. What you could do is try being just as messy as her for a few days..start spreading her magazines across the room etc. Invite some friends around and tell them to remark on the mess! She will (hopefully) be mortified and will realise. If you don't sort it out things will get worse and worse and you will end up hating each other..

SheFiend

One of my ex's was like that. Disgusting. Chopping raw meat on countertop and leaving the mess for some unsuspecting person to get a dose of food poisoning. All the plates fro the kitchen ended up in her room. Moldy cups like little science experiments, plates with leftover food / sauce in the bed under the covers! The floor couldn't be seen for clothes, clean and dirty, and general rubbish. She went mental i broke her mp3 player, which was on the floor under the carpet of thrash where she left it; how she didn't expect it to be walked on boggles my mind. I could go on and on. Im not going to go into detail about the dog which was locked in this room most of the time.. use your imagination if you have a strong stomach.

Needless to say I left that house soon after.

I still find it incredible that adults could behave this way when it makes their day so difficult: broken / dirty / lost stuff. Im inclined to think it signifies mental disorder; conflicting priorities / principles, lack of self esteem, as well as being given no cleaning responsibility as children. Im no shrink though, but id be interested to know.

Ellsbells

God thats disgusting.. You are both working so why not get a cleaner? Is she likely to change? No!

Do you want to have a cleaner for the rest of your life? Maybe this person ain't for you - you wanna know me, come live with me etc

RetailChick

Op I could of wrote that post 18 months ago the only difference is I am the female! My OH works from home, at the time (I'm on maternity leave now) I worked nearly 50hrs a week, we also have a small child. I would walk home every evening to practically everything you described!!

At the risk over sounding dramatic, it really does kill you a little bit on the inside, your house should be your sanctuary not increase already high stress levels the minute you walk in the door! I found myself having to do a basic clean up before even starting dinner, which meant barely getting any quality time with our child before their bedtime. Then I was finding myself doing a huge clean from top to bottom on my one or two days off a week.

We had many discussions and arguments, I'd get upset. He'd try for a while but then would slip into old habits and the cycle would start over. At the height of a row he'd just say well I don't want to clean so I'm not going to..........:mad: I'm by no means a clean freak but come on common sense tells you if you wipe a dirty counter surely those crumbs wiped onto floor aren't going to get themselve to a bin! Also I don't mind doing the majority of house work especially laundry etc but I really felt he was taking the p*ss.

Anyway reached the end of my tether finally and I hired a cleaner. She came 2 days a week (3 hrs each day) cost €60 a week and told him he ws paying for it. Best thing I ever did. She did all the major jobs that wouldnt even occur to him to do ever (hoovering, toilets, moping, dusting, changing beds etc) so even if he didnt lift a finger my work load at home was reduced dramatically. It made such a difference to how I felt coming home each day knowing I wouldn't have to face all that. Eventually we reduced it down to 3hrs and €30 per week but the benefit is he has finally realised that living in a nice clean house is much more appealing as is my better mood :rolleyes: and he is much better on the basics now such as bins, counters etc without being promted!

You are not being unreasonable here OP, something needs to change or you will snap. If you are both working perhaps a cleaner is the way to go? Of course you wont want a cleaner forever but for the time being it may help you and possibly shame her into improving on even the most basic of house work?

woodchuck

I get where you're coming from OP, but this doesn't have to turn into a such a big deal. The next time there are things that need to be done just say 'Oh I'm going to do x, do you mind doing y?'. Chances are she won't mind actually doing it, just that she doesn't realise it needs to be done to begin with (I know you said you asked about the lump of butter, but that could easily slip someones mind if they're in the middle of cooking and eating straight afterwards).

My OH is similar, but not as bad. He genuinely just doesn't see/notice some of things that need doing! But we've gotten into a routine where once a week we do a proper clean and we each have our own jobs to do. The rest of the time I'll either ask him to help out or he'll ask if there is something to be done.

username123

woodchuck wrote: »

He genuinely just doesn't see/notice some of things that need doing!

See I dont believe this. My OH has 2 eyes same as me. He does see things that need doing, he just sometimes CHOOSES to ignore them - big difference.

Anyway, my cleaning standards are higher than my OHs, and it caused initial problems, but then we assigned out the jobs and got a more regular rota going.

Currently Im studying from home so I take care of 99% of the major house chores, things like hoovering, washing, bedclothes changing, cooking. And we mostly share out the day to day general cleaning up after food, emptying the dishwasher etc...

What you are describing OP is disgusting. Why was the floor not swept/hoovered/washed once in 3 weeks that a piece of butter managed to stay there? There are higher and lower levels of house proudness but what you describe is a basic hygiene problem. Does she understand that it is part of being a responsible adult to keep your home in a reasonable state?

shinikins

Can I ask OP, why you didn't clean up the butter?? You're giving out about your girlfriends habits, but I don't see yours as being any better if you could leave filth on the floor for three weeks, or your fridge to get so dirty that its swimming in liquid mold.

In my household we clean as we go, granted, I end up doing more than my partner, and he does tend to make more mess, but he still helps out. Not fair, but life isn't fair, and we all have different expectations.

woodchuck

username123 wrote: »

See I dont believe this. My OH has 2 eyes same as me. He does see things that need doing, he just sometimes CHOOSES to ignore them - big difference.

Granted, I'm sure there are people who choose to ignore these things, I just know with my OH he doesn't see things the same way I do. For example he'll go through the motions of washing certain things/areas and get it say 90% clean... but then he'll have missed something that I would've thought was very obvious. It's almost like a blind person doing the cleaning sometimes! He's going through the motions, but can't seem to judge the outcome properly.

It just could be that everyone has different standards in terms of when something needs to be cleaned. Eg I'd make it a habit to dust once or twice a week, but someone else mightn't bother until they can write their name in it!

I think a routine is the way to go OP and ask her to make more of an effort to clean up after herself during the day when she's home.

LegacyUser

To those who asked about my own habits. Obviously, I'm not perfect, and if things are pointed out to me, I usually think, 'fair enough'. In the past, I've been extremely messy, even slobby. I made the effort to change because I knew it wasn't healthy the way I was before.

The reason the butter stayed there was because I was giving the OH space to do her thing without me passing comment or getting annoyed. I suppose it was a way for us to establish some kind of baseline. I continued to clean up my own messes, and occasionally pointed out the lump of butter under the table, but it still remained there. The fridge issue was actually during a time we weren't living together. I ended up cleaning it because she wouldn't. I suggested to her recently enough to give the fridge a bit of a clean because it was beginning to get a bit smelly and grimy - it took two weeks for her to do that because she was too busy sitting on the sofa on social networking sites.

Don't get me wrong, she isn't lazy, but when we have these arguments, I feel I'm made out to be the one with a problem. My only point is to say: our home is our refuge, quality of space means quality of life, not putting things back means things getting lost or broken, and cleaning as you go and having a routine in relation to the basic, normal things and standards is all I'm talking about.

But I get made out to be the person with a problem.

I understand when one poster recommends the 'I'm doing this, would you help our with this?' approach, and that works sometimes, but it also happens that I come home and am just hit with something that isn't good. I also accept myself that when I or we are very busy, we let things slide, but again I feel I'm the only one who tries to be aware of this and puts aside time to fix up the place. If neither of us did that, the place would be a horrible kip very quickly.

I hope that answers some points. I mean, I just want things to be fair and balanced. In it together.

LegacyUser

SheFiend wrote: »

I still find it incredible that adults could behave this way when it makes their day so difficult: broken / dirty / lost stuff. Im inclined to think it signifies mental disorder; conflicting priorities / principles, lack of self esteem, as well as being given no cleaning responsibility as children. Im no shrink though, but id be interested to know.

This was the first thing that came into my head because I have depression, actually I'm half wondering if you are my boyfriend but as far as I know he doesn't really spend any time on boards.

Our house is like yours, I've been on my own the last week and the house is in bits, I haven't washed a single dish the whole time he's been away, there are no dishes left to use now. There is mould growing on numerous things in the kitchen. I dropped a piece of cake on the floor days ago and it's still there. I have no clothes to wear to work tomorrow because I haven't done any washing.

I put a load on about 3 days ago, but without realising I put them in the dryer with detergent instead of into the washing machine. I only coped what I did yesterday!

I'm not trying to make excuses for your girlfriend but do you think there is a chance it might apply to her too?

I can't explain it, it looks like laziness to the outside world, you can see the dirt, you know it's not good enough but it makes no difference.

woodchuck

phreakyneatie wrote: »

I mean, I just want things to be fair and balanced. In it together.

I think this^ is the angle you should be taking instead of this:

phreakyneatie wrote: »

My only point is to say: our home is our refuge, quality of space means quality of life,

I think it's obvious you both have a different standard when it comes to cleanliness. To debate that what is an acceptable level of cleanliness will just end up in a row.

I think you should 'admit' to her that you have high standards of cleanliness (from her perspective anyway) and that it's not something you can change about yourself, but that you're in this together and you'd really appreciate her helping out more because it's a lot for one person to take on. That way you're making out like you're the one with the issue instead of her, but it should still result in her making more of an effort.

If you need to you could point out that it'll literally half the time it takes to do all those things if you both pitch in, which leaves more quality time that the two of you will have together (how she just sits around when you're cleaning and doesn't feel guilty enough to at least offer to help I don't know!)

username123

Look you have to draw a line in the sand here, explain once and for all how it makes you feel (it might take a row to get the point across how strongly you feel about it), get a rota/routine going - and stick to it. Both stick to it as well as you can.

I used to get really upset with my OH specifically about his bathroom (he exclusively uses one bathroom). I would ask him to clean it, nothing done, week would pass, Id ask again, nothing done etc... I was really angry about it because I felt it was turning me into a nag because he kept not doing it so I had to keep at him! Then one day I realised that if I took all the nagging time, Id have it cleaned! So I did it, but with good grace. And weirdly, it kind of embarrassed him into keeping on top of it. So now, its sometimes in need of a clean, but its never an absolute pit from hell like it used to be.

shinikins

phreakyneatie wrote: »

- I remarked that she might pick up a lump of butter she dropped on the floor but did not mention it again - it stayed there for three weeks

phreakyneatie wrote: »

The reason the butter stayed there was because I was giving the OH space to do her thing without me passing comment or getting annoyed. I suppose it was a way for us to establish some kind of baseline. I continued to clean up my own messes, and occasionally pointed out the lump of butter under the table, but it still remained there.

Sorry OP, but these two statements are at odds with each other, I'm getting the impression that your exaggerating the issue.

If you have such a good relationship with her, surely you can sit down and have a mature conversation and come to some sort of compromise.

LegacyUser

Thanks for all the comments. The way I see going about it is to agree two things between us.

An agreed list of housekeeping stuff that we both do every weekend, swapping roles each time. This stuff includes hoovering/washing floors, cleaning the bathroom, kitchen, throwing out or tidying up stuff left lying around, washing clothes/bedclothes.

Then a commitment to each other to 'clean as we go' during the week. This includes dishes, cleaning kitchen surfaces, sweeping the floor and emptying the kitchen bin when needed, tidying up our things left lying around, putting some things back where they belong, airing rooms when needed.

This seems reasonable to me. Or am I mental?

Because each time I bring the subject up, it leads to a massive row.

Curlyhatescurls

OP, I'm not sure how helpful you might find this but- this is enough to break up with someone over, does she realise how serious this is for you? Calmly sit her down and talk through the issue and come up with a solution, TOGETHER. If she is unwilling to compromise then does that not tell you that perhaps you are not meant to be with eachother?
I'm 21 years old, my parents have been fighting all my life, my mother spent years and years and years trying to change my father to make him a cleaner person and it literally drove her insane. They would have been better off if they'd broken up, because you can NEVER change a person and you shouldn't even waste your time trying to. The change has to come from them, they have to be willing to change and see the need for a change. If they don't, seriously, leave. My siblings and I would have had a much better childhood, they would have been a lot happier.
Some people have made some great suggestions- getting a cleaner, rota etc. If you have sat down and made it very clear how much this is affecting you, and she still won't budge, then to be honest, I don't know why you'd want to be with this person for the rest of your life. It will kill you inside, it really will.

woodchuck

phreakyneaty wrote: »

Thanks for all the comments. The way I see going about it is to agree two things between us.

An agreed list of housekeeping stuff that we both do every weekend, swapping roles each time. This stuff includes hoovering/washing floors, cleaning the bathroom, kitchen, throwing out or tidying up stuff left lying around, washing clothes/bedclothes.

Then a commitment to each other to 'clean as we go' during the week. This includes dishes, cleaning kitchen surfaces, sweeping the floor and emptying the kitchen bin when needed, tidying up our things left lying around, putting some things back where they belong, airing rooms when needed.

This seems reasonable to me. Or am I mental?

Because each time I bring the subject up, it leads to a massive row.

That all sounds perfectly reasonable!

If she's reluctant to do it, how about you suggest trying it for a few weeks to see how you get on. Hopefully she's actually see the benefits of living in a clean house and that will motivate her to keep at it. But if she complains about how much work it is I'd point how much MORE work it is for one person to have to do on their own...

Toast4532

Can't log in at mo wrote: »

This was the first thing that came into my head because I have depression, actually I'm half wondering if you are my boyfriend but as far as I know he doesn't really spend any time on boards.

Our house is like yours, I've been on my own the last week and the house is in bits, I haven't washed a single dish the whole time he's been away, there are no dishes left to use now. There is mould growing on numerous things in the kitchen. I dropped a piece of cake on the floor days ago and it's still there. I have no clothes to wear to work tomorrow because I haven't done any washing.

I put a load on about 3 days ago, but without realising I put them in the dryer with detergent instead of into the washing machine. I only coped what I did yesterday!

I'm not trying to make excuses for your girlfriend but do you think there is a chance it might apply to her too?

I can't explain it, it looks like laziness to the outside world, you can see the dirt, you know it's not good enough but it makes no difference.

Depression is no excuse for bag hygiene and laziness.

I have depression and others I know have it too, yet none of us are lazy when it comes to basic hygiene.

How on earth anyone can live in filthy conditions is beyond me.

Leaving butter on the floor, mouldy dishes lying around, books/clothes/magazines etc all over the places, unwashed/un-hoovered floors/unclean worktops etc is absolutely disgusting and there are very, very few things that make it OK.

If it was a case that your girlfriend was physically unable to do anything (sick, disabled, etc) then at least there would be a reasonable explanation for it, but solid laziness is no excuse.

And spending two weeks on social networking sites rather than spend time cleaning her own home is absurd.

Imagine if you had kids and she was so tired from lack of sleep during the day/night, what would the house be like then? I dread to think, it certainly wouldn't be a good environment for a baby and definitely not with disgusting fumes going around the place.

What is her personal hygiene like? Does she shower/wash regularly?

Toast4532

Toast4532 wrote: »

Depression is no excuse for bag hygiene and laziness.

I have depression and others I know have it too, yet none of us are lazy when it comes to basic hygiene.

How on earth anyone can live in filthy conditions is beyond me.

Leaving butter on the floor, mouldy dishes lying around, books/clothes/magazines etc all over the places, unwashed/un-hoovered floors/unclean worktops etc is absolutely disgusting and there are very, very few things that make it OK.

If it was a case that your girlfriend was physically unable to do anything (sick, disabled, etc) then at least there would be a reasonable explanation for it, but solid laziness is no excuse.

And spending two weeks on social networking sites rather than spend time cleaning her own home is absurd.

Imagine if you had kids and she was so tired from lack of sleep during the day/night, what would the house be like then? I dread to think, it certainly wouldn't be a good environment for a baby and definitely not with disgusting fumes going around the place.

What is her personal hygiene like? Does she shower/wash regularly?

This is really unfair. No two people are the same. Depression can be a MAJOR cause of people living like OP's girlfriend and to be honest, I'm disappointed by some of the replies in this thread.

I have an issue with keeping things clean and tidy and always have. I have no doubt that a lot of it is down to depression and lack of motivation as well as health issues that make me tired and lethargic, but I was also brought up my parents who themselves were very messy. I never really had an 'example' to follow and got used to living in a messy house. The worst part is, I actually love when the place is clean and am good at cleaning when I do it, but I never seem to be able to keep it that way. And I have tried. Really, really hard. I just can't seem to be able to prioritise cleaning, there are always a million other things to be doing that seem more urgent. Like most messy people, I have good intentions but all it takes is one morning when you're late for work and need to run out of the door and leave dirty dishes out, then the place starts to look messy and it gets easier to leave other stuff lying around and it all builds up very quickly. I can see what needs to be done but I find it so difficult to work up the motivation to do it. A normal person might think, 'oh, there's something spilled on the work surface, I'll wipe it up now' but I always plan to do it later and then later never comes.

It's all to easy to look at me and call me lazy, but it's not laziness. It really isn't. It's way more complicated than that. Please don't judge if you don't know what it's like.

LegacyUser

Another female here who is far from being an example of a tidy person.

In fact, I have always been far more messy than my boyfriends, and in one relationship, it did become an issue.

People have different standards of what is "clean" and what is not. This is in part because of the way they were brought up (values in the family) and in part because of the present circumstances (depression/stress/exhaustion etc)

As an example, we always had many dogs and children in the house I was growing up, so expecting the house to be perfectly clean was unrealistic. We loved animals and kids, it was a loving environment, my parents worked loads and we could not afford a cleaner. So we were not lazy or anything. But this is my idea of "clean".

My ex grew up in an upper-middle class family with a stay-at-home mum who was helped by a cleaner and a maid. The towels were washed/exchanged daily and the house dusted twice daily.

There is not such a thing as right/wrong. And it will always be some gap between two people who different views in life. You can compromise, talk to each other, see if she can help more with the chores and you be less picky.

(I personally didn't thing any of the examples of stuff she does were so terribly bad - I could have done all of them myself )

LegacyUser

98070987 wrote:

(I personally didn't thing any of the examples of stuff she does were so terribly bad - I could have done all of them myself )

Are you for real? You think smelly overflowing rubbish bins are ok to have in a house?

LegacyUser

I never said it was ok. But if I'm busy / exhausted from work, that would not be my number one activity when I arrive at home.

I would probably make sure I have clothes etcc organised for the next day, bills payed for, paperworked sorted, shower taken, hair and nails done, some nice food ordered or cooked, a film on and a relaxed evening ahead wiht my OH. And all these are already pretty time consuming.

What I'm saying is, if time is limited, my priority is not cleaning. My priority is keeping my sanity and enjoying my evenings, till cleaning becomes unavoidable.

NOw, the point where it becomes unavoidable differs according to each person's standards.

LegacyUser

No one should have to live in filth. I have a brother that hated to clean. It was pulling teeth to have him do something in the house. Now as an adult living in his own home he keeps his place clean. He does it by hiring a lady to come once a week for him. Even though he lives alone and it is his place and he can choose how dirty or clean to keep it. He knows himself that it is not acceptable to live like that. He would be embarassed to bring someone over the house if it was a mess.

I lived with flatmates in the past. Some that were meticulously clean and some that were messy. The messy ones did have the courtesy and clean up after themselves in the common areas. They were able to maintain a rota. It was only their bedroom that was a mess. It is all about respect for others that you live and share a place with.

It isn't fair to you and you are not her parent and she is not a child. To live like this as adult is not acceptable in my opinon. That is something a college student might do as it is their first time away from home. I have friends that don't like to clean and they all have someone come once a week or every other week to clean for them. You need to tell her she has to do her fair share of the housework. If she is not able to keep up that she needs to pay someone to do it for her. It really doesn't take much time to maintain a household. If you keep things clean and tidy from the beginning you are not going to spend hours cleaning. I think it is pure laziness when someone cannot pick up after themselves. It takes no more than a minute to wipe off crumbs from the counter. Seconds to put a dish in the dishwasher or a minute to wash it yourself and at most 5 minutes to take the trash out. These are tasks that don't take much time and effort. The only tasks that take a little more time are hoovering, sweeping and mopping floors, the bathroom etc. You can do these tasks together on a Saturday morning. My mother would have an alarm set for 90 minutes on a Saturday morning and everyone had to do something. The house was very clean in no time with 5 kids and two parents cleaning at once. You can do the same together. I think your gf is just lazy or maybe it's because of you. Are you the one doing it all of the time? If yes, she knows that it will get done by you and isn't bothered.