Apple and their Nano Sims for the iPhone 5

drunkmonkey

Rumors are the Networks are starting to stockpile new type nano sims. These sims are not usesd in any phones at the moment and judging by the size of them you won't be able to use these in any existing phones even with the help of an adapter.



I think it's Apple trying to re-invent a wheel that's not broken. There trying to lock people into their hardware and make it as painful as possible to switch from phone to phone. Bad move, will turn me off even considering an iphone 5.

What do you think?

Kenno90

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Rumors are the Networks are starting to stockpile new type nano sims. These sims are not usesd in any phones at the moment and judging by the size of them you won't be able to use these in any existing phones even with the help of an adapter.



I think it's Apple trying to re-invent a wheel that's not broken. There trying to lock people into their hardware and make it as painful as possible to switch from phone to phone. Bad move, will turn me off even considering an iphone 5.

What do you think?

Existing sim cards are very big and apple are trying to get them as small as possible for really thin phones.

I don't see it as a big problem, carriers can easily port your number over to a sim card that matches your phone.

drunkmonkey

You need a standard sim for the iphone 3G/3GS
You need a micro sim for the iphone 4/4S
Now you need a Nano sim for the iphone 5

To me that's daft. It's something that should be agreed with all the mobile phone companies much like the standard charger, apple didn't subscribe to that though. There really out on their own in a bad way.

smash

No big deal, once it's in you'll hardly be taking it out anyway. I'm more annoyed that they seem to be changing the charger on the iPhone 5 as I have a good docking station.

drunkmonkey

smash wrote: »

No big deal, once it's in you'll hardly be taking it out anyway. I'm more annoyed that they seem to be changing the charger on the iPhone 5 as I have a good docking station.

If it's changed to anything but a mico usb charger it shouldn't be allowed go on sale in Europe. I've a feeling they'll make you buy a new docking station.

Gumbo

smash wrote: »

No big deal, once it's in you'll hardly be taking it out anyway. I'm more annoyed that they seem to be changing the charger on the iPhone 5 as I have a good docking station.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

If it's changed to anything but a mico usb charger it shouldn't be allowed go on sale in Europe. I've a feeling they'll make you buy a new docking station.

There is an adaptor that will be available to mate the new dock to the older dock

smash

drunkmonkey wrote: »

If it's changed to anything but a mico usb charger it shouldn't be allowed go on sale in Europe. I've a feeling they'll make you buy a new docking station.

reports are that they've changed from a 32 pin to a 16 pin to allow for larger speakers.

kceire wrote: »

There is an adaptor that will be available to mate the new dock to the older dock

That's still very annoying. I have a usb adapter and sd card reader that fit perfectly... now I'll have to buy more bits

DjFlin

The reason Apple keeps pursuing smaller SIM cards is simple because SIM cards are big for no reason.

They may not seem that big to you & me, but when you're trying to design a cell phone to be as powerful & thin as a modern smartphone, every little bit of space counts.

Personally I've nothing against it. When I got my Nokia Lumia, I was given a free MicroSIM for it, then when I switched back, I was given a regular SIM.
If the cost of better hardware is having to go to the shop every time I get a new phone, I think I can live with that.

drunkmonkey

smash wrote: »

now I'll have to buy more bits

Your in the richest 1% of the worlds population if you can afford and iphone, you even pay more for everything online, http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-18595347

smash

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Your in the richest 1% of the worlds population if you can afford and iphone, you even pay more for everything online, http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-18595347

Wow. I didn't realise that a free phone made you rich!

Dumb journalism there.

smash

Mr.S wrote: »

Remember when sim cards where proper credit card sized?

No....

brav

Yes they used to be Full Sim(credit card sized for old satellite phones etc), mini sim(the 'normal' ones people are used to now), micro sim(iphone 4/4s), and now the upcoming nano sim.

smash

Man I never remember a credit card sized sim. Even back when my dad had a carphone and an old 088 number...

Sad Professor

I don't see how this can be percieved as Apple trying to lock you in their hardware. This isn't a proprietary sim card we're talking about here. Apple are trying to force a new standard. It's in Apple's interest that other manufacturers adopt it as well. Otherwise they are making the iPhone just as difficult to switch to as to switch away from.

drunkmonkey

Sad Professor wrote: »

Apple are trying to force a new standard.

This is a Global product with an industry standard. Apple can't just walk along and force everyone to follow with "their" new standard. How arrogant can you get, it has to bite you at some stage. There too far ahead of the curve on this one.

smash

drunkmonkey wrote: »

This is a Global product with an industry standard. Apple can't just walk along and force everyone to follow with "their" new standard. How arrogant can you get, it has to bite you at some stage. There too far ahead of the curve on this one.

There's nothing to say the next samsung isn't going down the same route.

brophs

It's only really a pain in the arse if your iPhone 5 is damaged and you have to send it away for a week or two. At which point, unless you're utterly minted, you'll drop back and use an older phone, which won't take the smaller sim. If you can buy an adapter then it will be fine but if they simply won't work because the smaller size of the chip then it's a bigger issue.

niallharty

In a world where no smartphone company wants to risk adding extra millimeters to a phone when they add more memory or a big processor... They need to find ways such as making the sim card smaller to make more room in the phone. Nokia are planning on doing this too.
Sure look how the sd card evolved over the course of a few years with the micro sd is barely bigger than the tip of your finger... As technology advances it takes up less space really like flat screen tvs etc.

Deep Thought

Jeeze...you can buy an adapter.

I have an adapter for my micro sim.

Stick it in and use any phone I want

dloob

Don't see a problem with it.
It's the new nano sim standard and is supposed to be backwards compatible with a simple adaptor.
I'm surprised it's ready to go in the iphone 5 as it was only adopted as the standard at the start of June.

drunkmonkey

Deep Thought wrote: »

Jeeze...you can buy an adapter.

I have an adapter my micro sim.

Stick it in and use any phone I want

You've missed it, were on about nano sims not micro sims.

Can you provide a link anywhere in the world where you can get a nano sim adapter?

Deep Thought

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You've missed it, were on about nano sims not micro sims.

Can you provide a link anywhere in the world where you can get a nano sim adapter?

nothing missed.....

I understand that....

Guarantee within a week of Nano Sim, an Adapter will be released

smash

http://www.engadget.com/tag/nano-SIM/

some interesting articles

dloob

drunkmonkey wrote: »

If it's changed to anything but a mico usb charger it shouldn't be allowed go on sale in Europe. I've a feeling they'll make you buy a new docking station.

You don't need the micro usb to be on the phone.
The iphone 4S complies with the requirement by having a micro usb to dock connector adapter, I imagine the 5 will do it the same way.

Dont be at yourself

drunkmonkey wrote: »

This is a Global product with an industry standard. Apple can't just walk along and force everyone to follow with "their" new standard. How arrogant can you get, it has to bite you at some stage. There too far ahead of the curve on this one.

Well, exactly. They're not forcing their standard on anybody. They're part of the process to decide what the new industry standard will be. They're not just plowing through with their own proprietry format.

dloob

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You've missed it, were on about nano sims not micro sims.

Can you provide a link anywhere in the world where you can get a nano sim adapter?

Made in Germany apparently.
http://nano-sim-adapter-shop.com/mini-uicc-sim-adapter.html

seamus

I don't see how this is locking anyone into any hardware.

If you want to change phone, you get your provider to send you out an appropriate SIM and you switch it across. It's free. A minor irritant really, but not enough to stop anyone from switching hardware.

The aim of course is to move to an embedded SIM so that you don't have to change the SIM card at all, you just register the device's IMEI with your carrier, and it instantly becomes active on their network.

DjFlin

drunkmonkey wrote: »

This is a Global product with an industry standard. Apple can't just walk along and force everyone to follow with "their" new standard. How arrogant can you get, it has to bite you at some stage. There too far ahead of the curve on this one.

How do you think Industry standards are created?

A bunch of companies says "Hey everybody, use my thing". One company wins.

Just look at BluRay Vs HDDVD.

squonk

In this case Apple drove this process but Samsung and a few others on the other side wanted to push their own common standard. In the end after some horse trading, they reached agreement around May/June so it's likely your Galaxy S4 might well come with the nano SIM as well. Apple look like they'll be first to market on this one but won't be on their own for long I'd bet.

seamus

DjFlin wrote: »

How do you think Industry standards are created?

A bunch of companies says "Hey everybody, use my thing". One company wins.

Just look at BluRay Vs HDDVD.

Usually a consortium of companies agrees on a standard and runs with it, because 20 individual companies pushing their own standards makes a bit of a mess of the market. This is why you get format wars only involving two or three formats.

In this case though, the SIM format is agreed by practically every major telecommunications operator in the world, so there aren't really any competing standards. That is, Apple don't have one SIM format and Samsung another. They sit down and agree on a single format, and that's the only one that appears on the market.

In this way, the SIM format follows a universally agreed and natural progression, rather than survival of the fittest, because this is the most cost-effective method.

Apple can really only be accused of forcing the standards to be agreed and implemented faster rather than forcing their own "standards" on everyone else.

_ricochet_

For the USB charger adapter thingy apple will have a 6 month exclusivity on selling the adapter, expect it to be costly!

ozmo

_ricochet_ wrote: »

For the USB charger adapter thingy apple will have a 6 month exclusivity on selling the adapter, expect it to be costly!

The current iPhone/iPad to micro USB costs 9euros
http://store.apple.com/ie/product/MD099ZM/A

Kinda expensive for what it is but not total ripoff unless you charge your phone at lots of places and need buy several.

Mellor

Kenno90 wrote: »

Existing sim cards are very big and apple are trying to get them as small as possible for really thin phones.

I don't see it as a big problem, carriers can easily port your number over to a sim card that matches your phone.

+1 to all of this.
Commen sense really.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You need a standard sim for the iphone 3G/3GS
You need a micro sim for the iphone 4/4S
Now you need a Nano sim for the iphone 5

To me that's daft. It's something that should be agreed with all the mobile phone companies much like the standard charger, apple didn't subscribe to that though. There really out on their own in a bad way.

The new sim will be the agreed upon one

drunkmonkey wrote: »

This is a Global product with an industry standard. Apple can't just walk along and force everyone to follow with "their" new standard. How arrogant can you get, it has to bite you at some stage. There too far ahead of the curve on this one.

lol
The decision to move to a new sim is something that all manufacturers agree upon. Nokia were/are developing one, and samsung are also moving forward and will prob adopt the apple one.

This is really basic stuff and happens all the time.
Betamax/VHS
Laser Disc/DVD
HD-DVD/Bluray

Even everyday givens such as USB, HDMI, WiFi, Bluetooth all went through a similar process.
You are making an issue here over nothing simply because its Apple.

Duggys Housemate

drunkmonkey wrote: »

smash wrote: »

now I'll have to buy more bits

Your in the richest 1% of the worlds population if you can afford and iphone, you even pay more for everything online, http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-18595347

That stat is probably horsehit given they are 7% of the total phone market.

Edit: and the link doesn't show anything about iPhones nor that Mac users pay more for the same stuff online but that they are directed to the more expensive stuff.

An appalling ill informed number of posts for one thread.

Duggys Housemate

Anyway nothing to see here except ill informed Apple bashing. They are using an industry standard sim.

hardCopy

Mr.S wrote: »

smash wrote: »

Man I never remember a credit card sized sim. Even back when my dad had a carphone and an old 088 number...

Some phones did! I still have my mums Motoralla brick of a phone from 1995 and it uses a credit card sized sim (the actual sim card is the same as a standard sim card but the whole thing is a credit card!)

Like this!

You still get the full sized card with every Sim pack, you have to break of the mini or micro Sim to put it in your phone.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

The aim of course is to move to an embedded SIM so that you don't have to change the SIM card at all, you just register the device's IMEI with your carrier, and it instantly becomes active on their network.

Exactly, Apple want to get rid of the SIM completely and emulate it all on the phone. They already pushed for this but got fierce resistance off the mobile networks.

So Apple are going to use their pushing power to make it smaller and smaller until the obvious choice is to move to embedded.

seamus

My understanding is that an embedded SIM will require substantial changes to the way the network software works at the moment, because every carrier issues their own specific SIM and you can't register one carrier's SIM on another's network. Some Irish carriers even require you to change SIM if you're moving from PAYG to bill pay!

Embedded SIMs would turn this all on their head and it will need to be possible to use any "eSIM" on any network in the world, as well as transfer them between networks as required.

It would require a DNS-style hierarchy that all providers interconnect with, I think.

ozmo

Mellor wrote: »

Kenno90 wrote: »

I don't see it as a big problem, carriers can easily port your number over to a sim card that matches your phone.

+1 to all of this.
Commen sense really.

Its just a pain though.. I have a few phones - just one good one. i like to bring an old phone when i go abroad... I normally use iphone but like to mess with androids the odd time... Spot of development and website testing also.
The adapter (bit of plastic to make the sim bigger) makes this easy.

If i was to get the new phone - Incompatible sims will mean im stuck to that one phone without a visit to the o2 shop each time i want change...

Hopefully there is a nano sim adapter that works...

Mellor

ozmo wrote: »

Its just a pain though.. I have a few phones - just one good one. i like to bring an old phone when i go abroad... I normally use iphone but like to mess with androids the odd time... Spot of development and website testing also.
The adapter (bit of plastic to make the sim bigger) makes this easy.

If i was to get the new phone - Incompatible sims will mean im stuck to that one phone without a visit to the o2 shop each time i want change...

Hopefully there is a nano sim adapter that works...

There will be an adapter imo, I believe one was already link to earlier

naasrd

Not an issue for me. Look how the iPhone has changed in 5 years, the sim must change as technology does.

culabula

hardCopy wrote: »

You still get the full sized card with every Sim pack, you have to break of the mini or micro Sim to put it in your phone.

Not any more. Certain microSIMs are now delivered with the smallest of housing around them.

Piliger

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I think it's Apple trying to re-invent a wheel that's not broken. There trying to lock people into their hardware and make it as painful as possible to switch from phone to phone. Bad move, will turn me off even considering an iphone 5.

What do you think?

You don't seem to grasp two things.

Firstly Apple are battling to use every free square millimetre of space inside the phone.

Secondly only a tiny amount of the space on the SIM is actually used and a large amount of unnecessary space is taken up by useless plastic and the mount for it.

So they are doing what any great company does, drive forward with new ideas and push the industry to higher and higher standards, while their competitors laze around.

Piliger

ozmo wrote: »

Its just a pain though.. I have a few phones - just one good one. i like to bring an old phone when i go abroad... I normally use iphone but like to mess with androids the odd time... Spot of development and website testing also.
The adapter (bit of plastic to make the sim bigger) makes this easy.

If i was to get the new phone - Incompatible sims will mean im stuck to that one phone without a visit to the o2 shop each time i want change...

Hopefully there is a nano sim adapter that works...

Technology moves on ... old farts get left behind

ozmo

Piliger wrote: »

Technology moves on ... old farts get left behind

thats not fair - external interfaces are the most critical things to keep compatible -

I agree that the smaller the sim the better - and fair play to Apple for making the move -
I also acknowledge they have kept it pin compatible and also very easy to shim in with an adapter.

So well done apple in both moving forward and keeping backward compatibility.


But your argument that change without backward compatibility is ok - is totally flawed and Not what apple did in this case.

Piliger

ozmo wrote: »

thats not fair - external interfaces are the most critical things to keep compatible -

I agree that the smaller the sim the better - and fair play to Apple for making the move -
I also acknowledge they have kept it pin compatible and also very easy to shim in with an adapter.

So well done apple in both moving forward and keeping backward compatibility.

Agreed. And you left out my smilie

But your argument that change without backward compatibility is ok - is totally flawed and Not what apple did in this case.

Well ... let's be fair - I didn't actually make any reference, straight or inferred, to change without backward compatibility being good ....

On the other hand there are times when backward compatibility has to be left behind. However in this case the apparent immediate availability of compact adapters seems more than adequate, after ca 9 years with the old plug, with news that other device manufacturers are to do the same.