Flat Staying Division

dave3004

Been thinking the last few weeks about this.

Australian horse racing is well funded, has excellent prize money at all levels of flat racing and yet I find the % of horses who travel from Europe to Australia to compete to be still quite small....especially at the staying division.

Oz racing is sprinting the majority of the time. Anywhere from 800m/900m races to a mile is the norm. Any further and they begin to use the term "stayer".....The breeding here reflects this with sires such as Exceed & Excel & Lonhro etc.

But the stayers standard is poor. Really poor. Any horse with any modicum of talent can make a great impact over here. Horses like Americain, Manighar (now converted to shorter races), Dunaden, Lucas Crannach, Red Cadeaux all have extremely high profiles here in Australia but are not the horses the hype over here suggests they are. 4 of those 5 horses were the first 4 home in The Race That Stops The Nation.

The Melbourne Cup is a 2m flat race as you probably already know. It has massive prize money, and has been won in the past by Dermot Weld, Bart Cummings & Alain De Royer-Dupre.
It use to be a race where anything other than an Aussie winner was unheard of. Internationally trained horses have won four of the last ten Melbourne Cups.
It's now a global race with the Europeans dominating all places this year. So although your horse may not be THAT good, it can surely come over and compete against what I would consider lesser stayers for better prize money.
I don't see the issue.
Was hoping you guys could shed some light and share your opinions on this matter….

I think there is a niche…..But what do I know !

UrbanSea

Australia's emphasis is on sprinters and early developers, hence Galileo failed down there. Fastnet Rock Is fast becoming the top stallion in the county that will probably remain for many years.

That's one reason I'm surprised by what will be So You Thinks inevitable popularity. Galileo failed and SYT's pedigree would suggest his offspring will be much slower to progress given he is by High Chaparall though only time will tell.

Regarding th Melbourne Cup, I can absolutely see the appeal in us sending over good horses, but understandably not sending the best. A purse of about 6 million dollars, the essential thing to remember is that it's a handicap, hence you'd never see the very best of ours going. Winnin a 2 mile handicap would probably hinder a horse's stallion prospects. Hence if you have a good horse rated about 110 who would be probably no better than group2 level back here you'd be right to go for the Cup, though the cost of entering and gettin over there would be huge. The Irish Leger winner does get automatic qualification though, but I don't think one has gone over but could be wrong

dave3004

UrbanSea wrote: »

Australia's emphasis is on sprinters and early developers, hence Galileo failed down there. Fastnet Rock Is fast becoming the top stallion in the county that will probably remain for many years.

That's one reason I'm surprised by what will be So You Thinks inevitable popularity. Galileo failed and SYT's pedigree would suggest his offspring will be much slower to progress given he is by High Chaparall though only time will tell.

Regarding th Melbourne Cup, I can absolutely see the appeal in us sending over good horses, but understandably not sending the best. A purse of about 6 million dollars, the essential thing to remember is that it's a handicap, hence you'd never see the very best of ours going. Winnin a 2 mile handicap would probably hinder a horse's stallion prospects. Hence if you have a good horse rated about 110 who would be probably no better than group2 level back here you'd be right to go for the Cup, though the cost of entering and gettin over there would be huge. The Irish Leger winner does get automatic qualification though, but I don't think one has gone over but could be wrong

I don't understand this though?

Surely winning a Melbourne Cup is a good thing as a selling point. They can go on and win black type too but would people be put off that it is running in a handicap at all?

On the SYT issue, I think it's his features and looks moreso than his breeding. He is a magnificent beast of a horse and reckon people would take the chance of getting a decent price if you get in early.

Who is the most expensive Sire? Anybody know. Just seen on the Darley website that Street Cry is 110,000 !

Sorry getting off topic! But even if you had a class 4 horse rated 80 in the staying div, surely it makes sense to fly him to Oz and get soem wins into him here where you'd win 5 figures for average wins than race for 1,920 or whatever it is in GB?

UrbanSea

Winning a 2 mile race wouldn't be good for prospective top flat stallions. Even winning a Leger generally sets a stallion on a NH route, hence that's why people are divided on whether or not Camelot should go for it as it over emphasises stamina, and the Melbourne cup is another two furlongs on top of that.

Thing is though So You Think isn't particularly cheap, he's starting off at 68,000 AUD.

Regarding the most expensive,in Oz I believe it's Fastnet Rock, he's down as being 220,000 I believe it is for next season.

Regarding your last point: Most of the owners of such horses would be small individual owners or small syndicates. The cost of sending a horse to Oz would be huge for them on top of what is surely an already money losing exercise. As well as this, most owners would love having a day out and physically seeing their horse both at the trainer's yard and at the races. This would be impractical were there horse running in Oz. Assuming it was sent, it is in no way gauranteed to adapt to life over there and run well.

klairondavis

UrbanSea wrote: »

The Irish Leger winner does get automatic qualification though, but I don't think one has gone over but could be wrong

I think Vinnie Roe had a few goes at it after winning the Leger? He was definitely second behind Makaybe Diva one year and I'm nearly sure he ran well the year Media Puzzle won it.