Open v closed

wolfyboy555

I've just finished Steve Jobs' book and thought it was a very good read. One thing that constantly came across was the differing philosophies on the open versus closed way of making your products i.e android is open to anyone who wants to tinker with it where as ios isn't.

I don't have extensive knowledge of using apple products and software (only have an iPad) but judging how nice I find using it and bad experiences with my dell/windows laptop I would tend to lean towards getting an apple (if I can afford it) computer next. I think apple's philosophy on what the user experience should be is very well integrated into their products unlike fragmented windows and android systems. What are your opinions?

Stainless_Steel

You sum it up really. Apple create a tightly integrated and great user experience.

But it's not as simple as open vs closed. Sometime open means open source, where source code is available freely. Of course windows and apple software are both closed in this regard.

But open can also mean that third party apps are supported, as they are for most apple products.

Personally I think the iPhone/iPad blend of open and closed is the perfect blend. Closed enough to give a stable and beautiful user experience, but open enough to allow endless possibilities with third party apps.

Sad Professor

I find the open vs closed debate very frustrating since the meaning of the term is ambiguous and tends to be redefined to suit whatever argument someone is making. This is all due to the simplistic idea that "open equals good, closed equal bad" that Google among others like to peddle.

Apple is "closed" in two important ways: 1) only they make the hardware, and 2) in the case of iOS (but not the Mac) they control the apps. Despite what many people argue, 2) is not a bad thing. Apple want to protect the user experience of their mobile devices and the best way to do that is to control what apps can and can't run on them. You still have the option of jail-breaking, which I've always felt Apple could put an end to if they really wanted to. The Mac is actually "open" in this regard, although many people believe this will change.

And as for 1) the hardware being "closed", the tight integration of hardware and software is what's making Apple very difficult to compete with in the tablet market. Google and MS have both recently fired warning shots at tablet OEMs to make it clear to them that they aren't beyond adopting Apple's ways if they don't get their act together.

gzoladz

Loads of people would not own an ipad if there was no jb available, including myself.

The only change I would ask Apple to do is to relax their position re jailbreaking. Give people the option, tell them what the risks are, but let them decide for themselves. Jailbreak in my opinion adds between 30% and 40% of functionality to the device.

smash

gzoladz wrote: »

Jailbreak in my opinion adds between 30% and 40% of functionality to the device.

how so? I genuinely can't see the advantage.

And most users don't even know what a jailbreak is to be honest.

Sad Professor

I've only ever jailbroken an iDevice once: my first-gen iPod Touch before the arrival of the App Store. Never had any need or desire to jailbreak since.

As for why Apple don't make it easier, I guess because they have to keep the mobile networks happy. Most people jailbreak to unlock the phone for any network. Also because Apple aren't interested in supporting whatever problems people inadvertently cause as a result of jailbreaking.

smash

there's only ever been 2 reasons I've seen for people jailbreaking a device:

1) to switch network.
2) to make a dog's dinner of the interface by adding their own custom icons.

yawha

What being "closed", in the sense that the same company produces both the hardware and the OS, does is ensures that the OS is only ever used on a smaller number of higher quality devices. While the "open" model is good in that it allows OEMs the freedom to create a wide range of differing quality devices on which the OS will run, it can give the OS a bad name when users attempt to use it on cheap pieces of crap, or with tons of awful OEM bloatware preinstalled and affecting the experience. I love my Windows 7 Dell XPS 17, but man that **** was unusable before I completely wiped it and reinstalled the OS. I can't imagine how those who don't know how to do that cope.

There's also the issue of the quality of device drivers being more likely to be higher if they're developed by the same company as the OS manufacturer. The Macbook trackpad is a prime example of this.

gzoladz

smash wrote: »

there's only ever been 2 reasons I've seen for people jailbreaking a device:

1) to switch network.
2) to make a dog's dinner of the interface by adding their own custom icons.

3) to use apps that are not available on the app store (ifile, xbmc, for example)
4) to add functionalities like using the cck as external storage

gzoladz

smash wrote: »

how so? I genuinely can't see the advantage.

And most users don't even know what a jailbreak is to be honest.

As above.

But I appreciate that the decission is personal. As much as I like the ipad, if there was no jb I would probably would be moving to an Android device.

whiterebel

gzoladz wrote: »

Loads of people would not own an ipad if there was no jb available, including myself.

The only change I would ask Apple to do is to relax their position re jailbreaking. Give people the option, tell them what the risks are, but let them decide for themselves. Jailbreak in my opinion adds between 30% and 40% of functionality to the device.

I don't find anything really useful by jailbreaking my iPad. iPhone yes, iPad no.

CathalDublin

Ipad has tonnes of useful jailbreak tools
eg. Activator, retina pad, emulation, folder enhancer, winterboard, sbsettings, intelliscreenx, fullscreen for safari, etc

wolfyboy555 wrote: »

android is open to anyone who wants to tinker with it where as ios isn't.

Well Android isn't really that open at all;)

smash

gzoladz wrote: »

3) to use apps that are not available on the app store (ifile, xbmc, for example)
4) to add functionalities like using the cck as external storage

CathalDublin wrote: »

Ipad has tonnes of useful jailbreak tools
eg. Activator, retina pad, emulation, folder enhancer, winterboard, sbsettings, intelliscreenx, fullscreen for safari, etc

So buy a netbook or a notebook. None of this really that important.

CathalDublin

smash wrote: »

So buy a netbook or a notebook. None of this really that important.

:rolleyes: what has that got to do with the questions in the thread?
Some users wondering what's useful in jailbreaking an ipad.
I answered with the useful apps I use and some of the main reasons to jailbreak your ipad.
What has that got to do with buying a notebook, how would I run Activator, retina pad, folder enhancer, winterboard, sbsettings, intelliscreenx on a netbook or notepad?

smash

CathalDublin wrote: »

:rolleyes: what has that got to do with the questions in the thread?

maybe a chromebook would be better for you then

Nice edit there by the way, adding in a sentence instead of a load of roll eyes smileys.

It's got to do with the reasons given to jailbreak. Which all seem pretty pointless.

CathalDublin

smash wrote: »

maybe a chromebook would be better for you then

better for me

smash wrote: »

Nice edit there by the way, adding in a sentence instead of a load of roll eyes smileys.

Thanks

smash wrote: »

It's got to do with the reasons given to jailbreak. Which all seem pretty pointless.

How are any them pointless

CathalDublin

Just picking two examples here, I can't understand how anyone would say either of these are pointless
If they were in the app store they would be the number one downloaded apps, if apple included them in the stock firmware everyone would be raving about them

activator wrote:

Think of Activator as the key to unlocking limitless shortcut possibilities on your iPad. Many jailbreak tweaks use Activator to let you trigger actions from anywhere in iOS (double tapping the status bar, triple tapping the Home button, etc.), and you can also assign some stock actions in Activator for controlling basic aspects of iOS
Read more at http://www.cultofmac.com/145434/the-best-jailbreak-apps-for-the-ipad-2/#1zggccVIvLEHlxQx.99

IntelliScreenX wrote:

This insanely detailed extension takes your iOS 5 Notification Center to the next level. IntelliScreenX brings functionality to the Notification Center drop-down window that Apple should have included by default. Not only can you toggle settings like WiFi, 3G, Airplane mode and others, but you can view things like RSS feeds as well. There are multiple pages added to your Notification Center for quickly checking your Mail, Twitter and Facebook. Everything you need to see is in one place.
Read more at http://www.cultofmac.com/145434/the-best-jailbreak-apps-for-the-ipad-2/#1zggccVIvLEHlxQx.99

smash

CathalDublin wrote: »

How are any them pointless

well I'm going to guess that to over 99% of users, they're pointless and not needed. I find the kind of people who will say things like they want to use it as a hd, are the same people who also carry around large usb keys. Thus, pretty pointless.

For the apps you mentioned above, while there's some handy features there it's not the be all and end off of the tablet. The OS is pretty user friendly anyway.

CathalDublin

smash wrote: »

For the apps you mentioned above, while there's some handy features there it's not the be all and end off of the tablet. The OS is pretty user friendly anyway.

I never said it was be all and end all anywhere, I simply suggested some useful apps only available through jailbreak

Stainless_Steel

This thread is going off topic me thinks!

CathalDublin

Oh and a few different comments above saying how most people jailbreak to carrier unlock the iphone is simply not true, there hasn't been a new software unlock available through jailbreak since the launch of the iPhone4.

Stainless_Steel wrote: »

This thread is going off topic me thinks!

sorry

smash

CathalDublin wrote: »

Oh and a few different comments above saying how most people jailbreak to carrier unlock the iphone is simply not true, there hasn't been a new software unlock available through jailbreak since the launch of the iPhone4.


sorry

I thought the 5.0.1 Untethered Redsn0w JB did that no?

CathalDublin

smash wrote: »

I thought the 5.0.1 Untethered Redsn0w JB did that no?

No, only if you've preserved your baseband since ios4.1(I think this was the last iphone4 baseband which was unlocakble 01.59.00) or using a 3G/S, so any devices shipped later than iphone4(4.1)have basebands which are not unlockable via Ultrasn0w(jailbreak).

**edit
sorry forgot about 3g/s iphones

gzoladz

Usual problem with Apple fanboys...they hardly know what is good for them and they want to dictate what is good for other people. Why cant you guys accept that for some of us, no jb = no ipad

As much as I like ios, no jb is a dealbreaker. It is like giving you a Ferrari where you can only use up to 2nd gear. And I do think that Android is messy, but it is not as restrictive as ios.

So you go and enjoy your stock ipad, others and I will enjoy our jb ipad.

wolfyboy555

I have jailbroken my iPad but only for use of xbmc. I know there are other useful tweaks for it but I just couldn't be bothered finding out about the countless ways to tweak something that is just going to be a novelty really.

guil

smash wrote: »

CathalDublin wrote: »

Oh and a few different comments above saying how most people jailbreak to carrier unlock the iphone is simply not true, there hasn't been a new software unlock available through jailbreak since the launch of the iPhone4.


sorry

I thought the 5.0.1 Untethered Redsn0w JB did that no?

That's what I was trying to tell you yesterday. Redsn0w is a jailbreak not an unlock. The two are completely different things