Mac Mini or upgrade an existing PC

FarmJames

Hi Guys,

Two years ago I invested a few quid in a new hard drive and graphics card for my PC that is attached to my HDTV. I didn't upgrade the processor and memory at the time because it was sufficient. Now, its starting to hang a little and to be honest, its too big for underneath the TV. It was going to be used for playing games but to be honest, I have a ps3 and xbox for that and I have not played one game on it.

So now I am either considering purchasing an SSD for the operating system and replacing the processor and RAM and leaving it as it is or giving up the ghost, possibly selling it, use it as a server or repurpose it in another room.

I watch a lot of films in MKV and AVI format and it is mainly used for the likes of netflix, etc. I download everything so I don't need a DVD or Blu ray player (I have that on the PS3 and xbox anyway) and it will be connected to my AV receiver with 5.1 sound.

What I want is something small that doesn't cost the earth on electricity when in use but will also give me the best playback possible for as good a budget as possible. I really love the Mac Mini's and I know there are rumours of a new one coming, so my question is...

Should I stick with the tried and tested PC or jump onto the Mac Mini ship.

Wcool

What are the specs of the old PC?
And what is the case size? motherboard size?
Do you want to record TV?

Discostuy

I use a Mac Mini myself and I couldn't fault it.
I started out with a Popcorn Hour A200 and while its a great machine, it was a bit buggy and took a lot of work to get it working as I wanted so in the end I got the Mac.

It's a cracking piece of kit, super small and quiet. I have it connected to a NAS so it handles all Music, Photos, TV shows and Movies. I installed Plex on it which really jazzes up your content and provides a real "eye candy" front end UI...i'd highly recommend Plex!

Mine is left on 24/7 as a full time media server and it uses feck all power. It also streams to 2 apple tv's in other rooms, and the whole system can be controlled using the iPhone or Harmony remote.

There are some drawbacks, like lack of HD audio support...but overall I would recommend it. Its a slick machine thats super easy to setup and really is trouble free and with Plex installed it is very family/GF/wife friendly.

Wcool

Can't argue with your case, Apple is great.

Except it is *very* expensive. You can have the same functionality for around 200 if you research and 250 if you want to be lazy.

Apple is 600! Granted you get a better machine that does all sorts of extra tricks but isn't it a waste to make a desktop machine do what easily can be done by a dedicated little santas helper?

FarmJames

The specs on my current PC is an intel core duo chip with 4GB of Ram. The Graphics card is an ATI 5850 graphics card and 700 watt power. The hard drive is just a standard 1TB one but have lots of external harddrives so the size is not important.

I know there are cheaper out there but I own other apple products and I like the look of this one. Plus there are rumours of an update with newer processors coming out later this year. I'm thinking of getting this for Christmas but saving now for it. If there are better and cheaper out there with the same form factor, I'm up for exploring it. It has to be wife friendly. :rolleyes:

Access

FarmJames wrote: »

I know there are cheaper out there but I own other apple products and I like the look of this one. Plus there are rumours of an update with newer processors coming out later this year.

It sounds to me like you have your mind made up already - even before you started the poll!

I would be a small form factor pc man... apple to me is like eating glass... never liked it (even if it does look slick in design).

Discostuy

Wcool wrote: »

Can't argue with your case, Apple is great.

Except it is *very* expensive. You can have the same functionality for around 200 if you research and 250 if you want to be lazy.

Apple is 600! Granted you get a better machine that does all sorts of extra tricks but isn't it a waste to make a desktop machine do what easily can be done by a dedicated little santas helper?

It is a lot of money alright. I also use it as a desktop PC so I feel I get my monies worth.

I suppose it comes down to how much you're prepared to tinker and play around with other machines. I tried a few others but always found them too much work.

I have to say, for reliablity, function & design and ease of use (especially when linked with other devices be it Apple or Harmony remotes etc) the Mac is a great machine and one i'd recommend for anyone building a home entertainment hub.

Wcool

FarmJames wrote: »

The specs on my current PC is an intel core duo chip with 4GB of Ram. The Graphics card is an ATI 5850 graphics card and 700 watt power. The hard drive is just a standard 1TB one but have lots of external harddrives so the size is not important.

Well these specs are overkill for a Media PC. You have a bit of dilemma, as your PC -as you say- is a bit too big for a media centre. But a computer with these specs can EASILY play 1080p video twice over? So I don't understand why it stutters.
Just pop in Windows and set Media Player up, it should not be any problem performance wise. You might have to install some codecs: have a look here
http://www.free-codecs.com/download/k_lite_codec_pack.htm

If you really cannot live with the size of the PC, I would sell it, probably with the money you get for it, you can buy a dedicated small form PC capable of playing any video.

Still wouldn't buy Apple , it's shiny but not good value unless you use it for other purposes outside a media pc. Clearly, you did not do that with your current PC.

Wcool

Discostuy wrote: »

It is a lot of money alright. I also use it as a desktop PC so I feel I get my monies worth.

I suppose it comes down to how much you're prepared to tinker and play around with other machines. I tried a few others but always found them too much work.

I have to say, for reliablity, function & design and ease of use (especially when linked with other devices be it Apple or Harmony remotes etc) the Mac is a great machine and one i'd recommend for anyone building a home entertainment hub.

Well this is another gripe I have with Apple. I like to tinker, but Apple actively tries to stop me. On the Mac Mini, i can NOT change the RAM, NOT change the hard disk and because all the design is non standard, I cannot add an extra HD or add a graphics card. The Apple has no DVD or BR player, I will have to buy an extra external one. Apple stopped selling the harmony remote and it has no infrared port anymore, forcing me to use bluetooth.

Nice looking box though!

Discostuy

Wcool wrote: »

Well this is another gripe I have with Apple. I like to tinker, but Apple actively tries to stop me. On the Mac Mini, i can NOT change the RAM, NOT change the hard disk and because all the design is non standard, I cannot add an extra HD or add a graphics card. The Apple has no DVD or BR player, I will have to buy an extra external one. Apple stopped selling the harmony remote and it has no infrared port anymore, forcing me to use bluetooth.

Nice looking box though!

hmm I think you might be getting Mac Mini mixed up with something else.
I have the latest model (2011) and you can upgrade parts very handy.

I upgraded the RAM recently...simple twist the bottom off and clip the new RAM in. Likewise I believe the HDD can be swapped easy enough. Not something I have done myself, but there is a lot of users online who've added SSDs.

It does have infrared as well, as I use a Harmony remote with mine.

Not having a Blu Ray player is a pain. It would have really made it a perfect little unit if it had one.
I use a standalone BR player myself and leave the Mini to handle all hard drive based content, so while a BR player would have been great, a DVD is no great loss.

stimpson

I'd highly recommend a Mac Mini running Plex. I have a 2007 mini doing the business and never had any trouble. I bumped the RAM to 2gb and I hacked an esata cable running from a sata card in the Airport PCI-E slot. Practically unlimited full speed storage.

If you're buying one it might be worth holding off for a bit. The line should be due a bump soon after Mountain Lion. USB3 is a must have nowadays.

mickoneill30

FarmJames wrote: »

The specs on my current PC is an intel core duo chip with 4GB of Ram. The Graphics card is an ATI 5850 graphics card and 700 watt power. The hard drive is just a standard 1TB one but have lots of external harddrives so the size is not important.

I've a cheapy little Atom powered PC (like this, it's about 3 years old now)under my TV running XBMC. It has 2GB RAM, Windows Server and plays everything I throw at it. I also have plenty of background apps running on it like uTorrent for my linux ISOs, FTP server etc. etc.
Your spec is way better than what I have.

Something to try (that is free and quick enough to try) is to download XBMC (very easy to install). Make sure you have no programs running in the background (not really necessary but one of those could be causing your slowdown). Run XBMC and point it at your media folder. If you like it and if it runs your videos OK splash out about €30 with Amazon (or whoever) and get a USB infrared receiver and a remote control.

If you still want to spend loads of money contact me and I'll sell you the USB infrared for €600

If there's a technical reason for your PC hanging (faulty HDD or RAM) then that's different. But a PC shouldn't just be hanging because it's old. Either there's some problematic software or there's a piece of dodgy hardware.

Discostuy

I wonder is the hanging/stuttering issues with refresh rates. Depending on the format of the files you are playing, there may be issues with 50/60hz refresh rates.

That and issues with audio codecs can sometimes cripple even the most powerful PCs.

Wcool

Discostuy wrote: »

hmm I think you might be getting Mac Mini mixed up with something else.
I have the latest model (2011) and you can upgrade parts very handy.

I upgraded the RAM recently...simple twist the bottom off and clip the new RAM in. Likewise I believe the HDD can be swapped easy enough. Not something I have done myself, but there is a lot of users online who've added SSDs.

It does have infrared as well, as I use a Harmony remote with mine.

Not having a Blu Ray player is a pain. It would have really made it a perfect little unit if it had one.
I use a standalone BR player myself and leave the Mini to handle all hard drive based content, so while a BR player would have been great, a DVD is no great loss.

I stand corrected, I looked up the tech specs on apple.com and couldn't find an IR receiver, I also vaguely remembered that they stopped shipping Frontrow so I assumed it was not possible anymore. But I see now you can buy the remote for a decent price too.

I used too have a very old Mini G4 (gave it away). AFAIK you couldn't open it without special tools but I might be mistaken now considering you can open the new Mini.

Discostuy

I'd be relativly new to Macs myself, so dont have experience with Frontrow...was it good? It seems to missed by a lot of users online.

Plex and XBMC are great I have to say, i'd recommend them to anyone using a HTPC.

squonk

I use a Mac Mini for HTPC duties myself and it's great. I've got Plex running on it linked up to my NAS via CAT5. I do use it for other things from time to time but it's primary function is as a media PC. The way I look at it, it's going to be left to do that job until it absolutely falls to bits anyway which could be years. I'll keep it upgraded as long as I can but when OS upgrades stop for it, I'll keep it as long as it stays going. For me the fact that I can also use TimeMachine to back it up is handy if the HD ever does go, I'll be up and running very quickly again. Right now it's got plenty of oomph for everything it's doing and there's plenty of capacity to spare. I can't see us moving on to formats that are larger and require more processing power in the next 5 years, but after that if decoding higher res stuff takes more power then it might be time to relegate it to the bedroom or something like that. It's a high upfront cost but it's a great portable, good looking and quiet machine that has done great service day in day out with me so far.

FarmJames

Hi Guys,

So I am still contemplating about my mac mini or HTPC purpose build. I was waiting on the refresh and I've been rewarded as they have been refreshed but some are saying the new mac mini's are not as good as they don't have a dedicated graphics card and instead use a Intel 4000 graphics chip. I do like the idea of Fusion drive however and the fact that its economical to run. So guys, what do I do? Will I just go for it and invest in a new mac mini, purchase the old one or build a purpose built PC?

Thank you for your help.

stimpson

HD4000 will be more than enough for a HTPC. People are moaning because they were hoping for a cheap games machine.

I'm taking the plunge and getting a 2.6 GHz quad core i7. The Fusion drive is tempting but I'm going to put the money towards a 16GB kit and a cheapish SSD. I can stick the OS and apps on the SSD and it should still be plenty fast.

If the GPU is a deal breaker, MSI and others have demonstrated an external graphics solution using Thunderbolt. Nothing on the market just yet though.

squonk

Yeah FarmJames you'll be fine with that setup. Integrated graphics nowadays are fine for most users. If you're a gamer you'll be a bit put out of course but for a media system it'll do just fine. The prices for the new one are making me cough just a little. You're now talking €859 if you want a model with the fusion drive. I'm not sure the extra speed is worth all that much though it'd be nice to have.

I'll tell you though what I do. My NAS starts up early in the afternoon and my Mini comes up shortly thereafter. You can set startup and shutdown times in System Preferences. The Mini goes away and searches for TV shows and hands some feeds over to the NAS which downloads them and then the Mini grabs the new shows and sorts them to my media server. The benefit of this is that when I get home my shows are ready to go and the system is on. The only time I go through a restart is if updates need to be installed and I decide to do it during the evening. I leave the system running when I go to bed and it shuts down again well into the early hours of the morning. The point of this story is that I don't care greatly how long my Mini takes to boot (not that long anyway) and I'm not sure what the Fusion drive would bring to the party for the extra money. Actually, I notice now that you need to spec a Fusion Drive as extra and that pushes the cost to over a grand. Don't do that! Seriously, it's not worth it. I did configure my Mini to use a 7200 rpm drive which will make a small difference but not significant.

The base model spec at this stage is way more than adequate for what you need.

stimpson

Squonk - what are you using to grab feeds? I was using Sickbeard for a while but didn't find it to be a proper "fire and forget" solution. I found I was always chasing stuff down manually.

squonk

I use Automatic, but it depends on your source for the feeds as well. I can't comment on how good Automatic is with sources outside of the one I use. Overall, the tools I use that are useful for me are Automatic, Hazel and Transmission. Plex is used as the media server and front end as well.

FarmJames

I use Plex currently for getting the films on my ipad. One quick question, so I watch a lot of HD films on my PC currently through a surround sound AV receiver and like good sound. Does the Mac Mini's have good dolby features on HDMI?

jaggiebunnet

for mac mini users - do you guys also use it as a pc - ie do web browsing while it is plugged into tv via wireless keyboard or something? Really like the look of it for my Plex server but it is a lot of dough just for that.

ZV Yoda

jaggiebunnet wrote: »

for mac mini users - do you guys also use it as a pc - ie do web browsing while it is plugged into tv via wireless keyboard or something? Really like the look of it for my Plex server but it is a lot of dough just for that.

I've had one for 2 years as a home media server. Absolutely love it. I only use iTunes. I've never bothered with Plex or any other 3rd party media software.

Yes, it is expensive & you will get a better windows machine for less money. But it has very low standby power consumption and looks great.

Mac minis are upgradeable. Mine is a 2010 model. The RAM upgrade is a 2 minute job. Upgrading the CPU/HDD isn't so straightforwad.

It is also our main photo/home movie machine. It's well able to handle audio/video/photo editing. And yes, I often use ours for web browsing - the kids love watching their stuff on Youtube. HD videos look great on a 40" screen.

I use this Logitech keyboard - has a built in touch pad. I'm sure there are better ones available now (mine is 2 years old)

mickoneill30

jaggiebunnet wrote: »

for mac mini users - do you guys also use it as a pc - ie do web browsing while it is plugged into tv via wireless keyboard or something? Really like the look of it for my Plex server but it is a lot of dough just for that.

I got one of these for mine from Amazon. http://www.riiminikeyboards.com/
They're OK for occasional use and small so they don't look out of place in the sitting room.