Manual V Automatic 4x4

I8A4RE

I am looking to buy a 4x4 circa €5k and looking to gain some off-road experience.

Is there much difference or a preference in terms of off road suitability, advantages/disadvantages for one or the other?

Basically if you were stuck in the wilderness and had the choice of either M/T or A/T, which would you choose and why?

Cheers

pete4130

AT has better/smoother shifting between gears to keep momentum going on slow surfaces (like sand). With MT the moment you push the clutch in you lose all momentum in softer surfaces and can get bogged. with MT you choose a gear you think will suit the obstacle and just keep going with it. So that advantage goes to the AT.

MT is far better for descending hills using engine compression/gears rather than using the brakes, as brakes can get very hot and mushy on large descents if your relying on them heavily. AT doesn't have this capability as it has a torque converter. Some 4X4's like the newer Prado's have whats called HDC (Hill Descent Control) which will send braking to the necessary wheel to keep the vehicle at about a 4kmh speed. I've been on advanced 4WD courses with work and have seen the HDC on the new AT Prado's still look twice as fast as a MT in low 1st going down the same descent. So that advantage goes to MT (as an AT 4X4 probably won't have HDC).


If your off road and something screws up with a MT, a bad case scenario is you might be stuck in LOW range or a certain gear. It'll still get you places but possibly slowly. If your AT goes wrong you could be stuck there. It's not so much a big deal in Ireland (I'm in Aus here) if you get stuck but it can be life or death here. So the advantage goes to MT there.

If you can't safely ascend a hill you can use the stall start technique to descend in reverse in a MT (some newer AT's might have an electronic aid to offer something similar, an older AT probably won't). The hill stall start is allowing your engine to stall and holding your in place. You then apply the footbrake and handbrake and put the vehicle into reverse. Release the handbrake and SLOWLY release the footbrake to allow the reverse gear to bind in and the engine compression to hold you in place with NO brakes applied. You then keep your foot off ALL the pedals and turn the key. The car will jolt backwards until the engine fires up and your low reverse gear will allow you to creep backwards down the hill. An older AT may not have an aid for something like this. So MT has the advantage here.


Both are very capable. Some people view MT as being real off road 4x4 driving. AT is a very good easy way to get involved and to learn so don't be put off by elitists saying MT is the only real 4x4.

In everyday driving the AT would be easier to drive, but a bit more thirsty on fuel. If it's an off road toy then it shouldn't matter too much.

You also have to consider what sort of 4WD system you want. Part time 4WD, Full time 4WD or the hybrid AWD systems that some vehicle have which send power to wheels or cuts it back when necessary.

101sean

Good advice there. In an older or more basic 4x4 in extreme off road conditions manual is better as you have more engine braking and quicker response. Depends on the type of off roading you want to do, very little gentle laning here and most of the off road centres are at the extreme end.

Modern high end 4x4s with all the electronics it doesn't matter so much as the ecu's do it all for you with HDC, Terrain Response ETC, ABS etc etc. (Hill Descent Control and Terrain Response were developed by Land Rover and copied by everyone else). Makes for a boring drive although as Pete says, a HDC descent still feels too fast

Top Dog

Some very good advice from Pete & Sean. :cool:

Only part I'd be in slight disagreement with would be ...

pete4130 wrote: »

MT is far better for descending hills using engine compression/gears rather than using the brakes, as brakes can get very hot and mushy on large descents if your relying on them heavily. AT doesn't have this capability as it has a torque converter.

Modern 4x4's with tiptronic boxes do have a certain amount of engine braking when in manual mode. Most likely not as effective as a manual transmission, but definitely better than a fully disengaged transmission too.

For 5k, and light off-roading, I'd be thinking auto-trans swb Pajero 3.2 diesel fitted with a reasonable set of all-terrain tyres.

pete4130

I meant older AT's as I don't think you'd be able to get a tiptronic gearbox on a 4x4 for under 5K?

Top Dog

pete4130 wrote: »

I meant older AT's as I don't think you'd be able to get a tiptronic gearbox on a 4x4 for under 5K?

Plenty of '00-'04ish Pajero's fall into that budget these days

dhog4n

My 19 year old Hilux Surf is an automatic and the torque convertor locks in low range. This means you can select 1st or 2nd as required and you have full engine braking on a hill descent. I don't know if any other AT's out there will do this.

You can pick up a good second generation surf like mine for under 2000 and a third generation surf should be within reach for the 5000.

colm_mcm

Pretty much every automatic has a PRND321 type box

dhog4n

colm_mcm wrote: »

Pretty much every automatic has a PRND321 type box

As does my Surf. It responds differently in low range than in high range though. You get the normal feeling of the engine not really being connected to the wheels in high range, whatever gear selection you make. In low range it feels like a manual.