The end of washed diesel

pa990

Read an article in one of todays papers (no link)
But it pretty much was word for word of the following

http://www.revenue.ie/en/press/2012/pr-040712-fuel.html

Del2005

They could just do it on VAT receipts for farmers and haulage companies.

Or even easier make suppliers provide evidence of who they are delivering to. We've no natural source of diesel so it's all coming in by boat. It shouldn't be too hard to follow the paper trail and see where the thousands of gallons are being siphoned off.

No need to mark it as eventually a way will be found to defeat the marker and be even more polluting.

pa990

Del2005 wrote: »

They could just do it on VAT receipts for farmers and haulage companies.

Or even easier make suppliers provide evidence of who they are delivering to. We've no natural source of diesel so it's all coming in by boat. It shouldn't be too hard to follow the paper trail and see where the thousands of gallons are being siphoned off.

No need to mark it as eventually a way will be found to defeat the marker and be even more polluting.

A vat back system is open to even more abuse.

Some home heating boilers run on diesel, who's to know how much of the diesel is being used for heating and how much is being put into a car.

Like wise with farmers and contractors. They could all end up using the unmarked fuel in private vehicles and claim it was for off road machinery..

And it's not just vat you would want to claim back, duty.is lower on marked diesel.

A tax back system is open to more abuse and would cost even more to run and enforce

dr.fuzzenstein

My guess is that even more aggressive agents will be used to launder the fuel and even more cars will die due to running this sh*t.
Of course the launderer doesn't care so all this will achieve is even more engine damage.

Bandara

There is a raft of new procedures that have been agreed via the IPIA and both government and revenue approved in the last few months and are going live in January

Essentially it involves the paper trails and monitoring of delivery and sales of fuel along the entire train of delivery, and it will genuinely make it virtually impossible for stations to deal in washed fuel.

I fully expect it to eradicate the issue completely within 3-6 months maximum of being introduced. I look forward to all these independant kips being shut down rapidly.

dr.fuzzenstein

^^^ Now that makes sense. There is no benefit to dealing in washed diesel other than to criminals.
I don't mind independent kips as long as they deal in good quality fuel.

pred racer

Ill start by saying that i dont wash or use washed diesel (never knowingly anyway)
Although ive been driving oil burners for over 10 years and ive never been dipped.

But this statement from that revenue site.

"Although the UK’s current fuel marker is actually one of the better quality markers in use, and not easy to launder out"

Is absolute horse manure.

And no I'm not going to elaborate;)

L1011

Claimback but still use the markers and audit anyone who suddenly starts claiming back a lot more. Should work - feel free to pick holes in the idea though.

Matt Simis

Hammertime wrote: »

I fully expect it to eradicate the issue completely within 3-6 months maximum of being introduced. I look forward to all these independant kips being shut down rapidly.

If true or not, that should mean the end of roadside dipping, which I look forward to (though thinking about it, Ive never been dipped..).

Anan1

Matt Simis wrote: »

If true or not, that should mean the end of roadside dipping, which I look forward to (though thinking about it, Ive never been dipped..).

Surely dipping makes more sense with markers that can't be washed out?

Matt Simis

Anan1 wrote: »

Surely dipping makes more sense with markers that can't be washed out?

I was replying to HT who indicated that better tracking of the base product with paper trails and regulatory controls is the future of tackling the problem, not chemical markers.

The current chemical marker is quite sophisticated (its not an Irish thing, its a Industry and EU standard) yet they can wash it enough to at least inhibit detection. Clearly this approach is pointless.

This might be why in the UK/ Norn Ireland they have clear Kerosene while ours is that stupid red dyed colour. Apparently that red dyed stuff will not born cleanly in Kero lamps or heaters, staining the apparatus and giving off bad fumes. That makes me seriously wonder what affect it has on engines over time.

Pottler

Matt Simis wrote: »

I was replying to HT who indicated that better tracking of the base product with paper trails and regulatory controls is the future of tackling the problem, not chemical markers.

The current chemical marker is quite sophisticated (its not an Irish thing, its a Industry and EU standard) yet they can wash it enough to at least inhibit detection. Clearly this approach is pointless.

This might be why in the UK/ Norn Ireland they have clear Kerosene while ours is that stupid red dyed colour. Apparently that red dyed stuff will not born cleanly in Kero lamps or heaters, staining the apparatus and giving off bad fumes. That makes me seriously wonder what affect it has on engines over time.

next to none, it's the washing process using strong acids that corrupts the fuel. Used in the marked state, neither green diesel nor kerosene have much effect if any on engine running/life. The kerosene needs to be mixed with a lubricant such as 2 stroke oil, to prevent pump issues. However, I seriously doubt these proposed actions will dent the market for washed/marked fuel - if there is money in it, someone will find a way around an issues. Much the same as the nuts proposals for tobacco duty increases - the smugglers will just adapt and overcome and have an even bigger market. BTW, they are suggesting moving away from dye type markers to a "DNA" marker chemically ingrained in the fuel. In reality, people who are running green don't give a toss, because most are running dual tanks with changeover valves at this stage. How do I know? I just do. Do I run on green? No, not worth the grief tbh. Nor would I buy smuggled fags, I go to the shop. But that's just me. Almost literally!

Our man in Havana

They actually use 2 markers. A colour marker and an invisible chemical marker. The colour one is easy to remove. The chemical one is not.