TDF Stage 13*Warning-contains unmasked spoilers

ednwireland

Saint-Paul-Trois-Châteaux – Le Cap d’Agde

Distance: 217km
Highest point: 238m
Category: Flat





http://www.cyclingnews.com/tour-de-france/stage-13

Mint Sauce

Back to the flat stuff. The sprinters will be happy about that.

retalivity

yawn...going to play football tomorrow instead of watching this.

cavendish to be pipped on the line by greipel and then drop out to concentrate on the olympics

crumliniano

retalivity wrote: »

...cavendish to be pipped on the line by greipel and then drop out to ...

...look for a new team

riparooo

This had the potential to be interesting if they finished the stage at the top of that vicious little climb towards the end. But no they drag it out for another 30 k along the coast.

Fingers crossed there is a vicious southerly off the med that shakes things up a bit...

funnights74

All the hallmarks of another boring stage (gc wise) jeeze this tour is hard work.

wonderfullife

funnights74 wrote: »

All the hallmarks of another boring stage (gc wise) jeeze this tour is hard work.

I'd really have to disagree i think it's been an amazing tour to watch and will only get better in the Pyrenees. So far we've had crashes galore, good sprint finishes and some of the most attacking days in the mountains. Evans and Nibali have both had pops on climbs and descents, it's been fascinating to watch. The moment Nibali and Wiggins had at the finish the other day was lovely to see, Millar with a great win today, the emergence of Froome, van Garderen and Pinot as stars of the future with phenomenal climbing......

As for stage 13, that climb really makes it tricky for the sprinters in terms of what it will take out of their legs relatively close to the finish (and probably a hard 30km of chasing down any breakaways to boot). Assuming the breakaway is caught i'd go for a top 3 of Cavendish-Greipel-Sagan.

retalivity

i watched highlights of stage 18 and stage 19 from the 2011 tour today....that entire tour was edge of the seat stuff, with these 2 stages as the best. Im hoping the pyrenees provide something equally exciting, as so far, its not doing it for me...

A_Sober_Paddy

What time(Irish Time) are they off today?

Hermy

wonderfullife wrote: »

I'd really have to disagree i think it's been an amazing tour to watch and will only get better in the Pyrenees. So far we've had crashes galore, good sprint finishes and some of the most attacking days in the mountains. Evans and Nibali have both had pops on climbs and descents, it's been fascinating to watch. The moment Nibali and Wiggins had at the finish the other day was lovely to see, Millar with a great win today, the emergence of Froome, van Garderen and Pinot as stars of the future with phenomenal climbing......

Aside from the crashes this Tour has been incredibly dull so far and crashes are excitement we could do without. An exciting Tour would see the Yellow jersey changing hands or the leader coming under sustained attacks. The sprints have been good but nothing special. The attacks have been few and far between. The dominance of Team Sky while laudable makes for awful viewing.

And as for an ex-doper winning yesterdays stage...:mad:

Ormus

wonderfullife wrote: »

I'd really have to disagree i think it's been an amazing tour to watch and will only get better in the Pyrenees. So far we've had crashes galore, good sprint finishes and some of the most attacking days in the mountains. Evans and Nibali have both had pops on climbs and descents, it's been fascinating to watch. The moment Nibali and Wiggins had at the finish the other day was lovely to see, Millar with a great win today, the emergence of Froome, van Garderen and Pinot as stars of the future with phenomenal climbing......

As for stage 13, that climb really makes it tricky for the sprinters in terms of what it will take out of their legs relatively close to the finish (and probably a hard 30km of chasing down any breakaways to boot). Assuming the breakaway is caught i'd go for a top 3 of Cavendish-Greipel-Sagan.

Crashes are not what we watch cycling for. They are a bad thing. They make the race less of a race.

Evans and Nibali have both made fairly pathetic attempts at attacking in the mountains.

I think the fact that you list Wiggo and Nibali having a friendly moment as one of your highlights of the Tour says it all!

Basically Sky have been just too strong and none of the competitors have had the class to challenge them.

Yet...

alibabba

Any update on Roche's form?
To me it looks like he is hanging in there hoping riders in the gc above him have a bad day or two, rather than him making up some ground by his own efforts.

titan18

wonderfullife wrote: »

I'd really have to disagree i think it's been an amazing tour to watch and will only get better in the Pyrenees. So far we've had crashes galore, good sprint finishes and some of the most attacking days in the mountains. Evans and Nibali have both had pops on climbs and descents, it's been fascinating to watch. The moment Nibali and Wiggins had at the finish the other day was lovely to see, Millar with a great win today, the emergence of Froome, van Garderen and Pinot as stars of the future with phenomenal climbing......

As for stage 13, that climb really makes it tricky for the sprinters in terms of what it will take out of their legs relatively close to the finish (and probably a hard 30km of chasing down any breakaways to boot). Assuming the breakaway is caught i'd go for a top 3 of Cavendish-Greipel-Sagan.

This has probably been the worst Tour I've seen, and I've been watching them since they came to Ireland in 98.

wonderfullife

Hermy wrote: »

Aside from the crashes this Tour has been incredibly dull so far and crashes are excitement we could do without. An exciting Tour would see the Yellow jersey changing hands or the leader coming under sustained attacks. The sprints have been good but nothing special. The attacks have been few and far between. The dominance of Team Sky while laudable makes for awful viewing.

And as for an ex-doper winning yesterdays stage...:mad:

Ormus wrote: »

Crashes are not what we watch cycling for. They are a bad thing. They make the race less of a race.

Evans and Nibali have both made fairly pathetic attempts at attacking in the mountains.

I think the fact that you list Wiggo and Nibali having a friendly moment as one of your highlights of the Tour says it all!

Basically Sky have been just too strong and none of the competitors have had the class to challenge them.

Yet...

titan18 wrote: »

This has probably been the worst Tour I've seen, and I've been watching them since they came to Ireland in 98.

ok just to clear a few things up here.

Re: crashes - what i meant is not the spectacle of crashes but the dynamics of how some of the teams responded to them tactically and how some of the riders involved have been affected.

David Millar winning was fantastic. He's done more than any single rider to highlight the drugs issue, his book is fantastic open and honest and he's entitled to make a mistake as a young person under team pressure - the way he's turned his life around has been fantastic and i was delighted to see him win the stage.

Evans and Nibali "pathetic attacks" - Evans attack was pre-planned and well executed. Sending van Garderen up the road and a domestique in the breakaway, he got a 40 second lead with his attack and it's a credit to Sky that he was reeled in by some fantastic tempo. Nibali has had 2 pops on climbs and 2 pops on descents and again it's a credit to Sky that he was run down. Yeah it was a nice moment after the sniping in the press from Nibali that Wiggo apologised on the line and it was accepted.

I was in the Phoenix Park when Tom Steeles won the sprint in 1998 and the crash just before the gates. That year was nothing special - Pantani won comfortably and his only realistic challenger was Jan Ullrich. I've seen every tour since as well and enjoy this one as much for the tactics. Even in commentary Phil Liggit (probably the most knowledgable out there) has said he can't remember the last Tour when so many feel they can win the Tour, and he can't remember the last Tour with so many attacks. Yesterday they jumped right off the start line!!

It's all about opinions but i think people are missing out on the fact that Sky are so incredibly strong that we don't have as many blistering attacks a la the Ullrich-Lance-Pantani era, when for the most part all 3 would be isolated and attacking each other. If Nibali and Evans could have got Wiggins isolated then yeah we might have had a bit more excitement.

We're seeing the emergence of 3 potential superstars this year in Froome, van Garderen and Thibaut Pinot, a battle between Cav and Greipel, and an amazing show of climbing strength from Sky. I'm loving it anyway but each to their own.

wonderfullife

alibabba wrote: »

Any update on Roche's form?
To me it looks like he is hanging in there hoping riders in the gc above him have a bad day or two, rather than him making up some ground by his own efforts.

he said in his column that now he is so far down on GC it will free him up to make an effort in the Pyrenees so i fully expect to see him in an attack there. Gotta bare in mind his Ag2R team have been decimated in mountain stages and you can't expect him to try attack Sky etc isolated and ruin his legs for the rest of the tour. Before he was 6 mins down on GC and would have been chased down by Sky, now at 10.49 down he'll be allowed some rope.

Hermy

wonderfullife wrote: »

David Millar winning was fantastic. He's done more than any single rider to highlight the drugs issue, his book is fantastic open and honest and he's entitled to make a mistake as a young person under team pressure - the way he's turned his life around has been fantastic and i was delighted to see him win the stage.

He didn't make a mistake. He very deliberately cheated his way to some of the biggest prizes in professional cycling.
The one rider who has done more than any other to highlight the problem of drugs in sport is Paul Kimmage.
Millar was very slow to admit his cheating - even after he had been caught - and the sport would be better off without him.

Even in commentary Phil Liggit (probably the most knowledgable out there) has said he can't remember the last Tour when so many feel they can win the Tour, and he can't remember the last Tour with so many attacks. Yesterday they jumped right off the start line!!

Liggot is a terrible commentator. He constantly attempts to make out that things are more exciting than they actually are. And you say yourself that Sky are dominating so where are all the challengers for the overall win.
And the attacks from the start yesterday were for the stage win - not for the yellow jersey.

titan18

wonderfullife wrote: »

ok just to clear a few things up here.

Re: crashes - what i meant is not the spectacle of crashes but the dynamics of how some of the teams responded to them tactically and how some of the riders involved have been affected.

David Millar winning was fantastic. He's done more than any single rider to highlight the drugs issue, his book is fantastic open and honest and he's entitled to make a mistake as a young person under team pressure - the way he's turned his life around has been fantastic and i was delighted to see him win the stage.

Evans and Nibali "pathetic attacks" - Evans attack was pre-planned and well executed. Sending van Garderen up the road and a domestique in the breakaway, he got a 40 second lead with his attack and it's a credit to Sky that he was reeled in by some fantastic tempo. Nibali has had 2 pops on climbs and 2 pops on descents and again it's a credit to Sky that he was run down. Yeah it was a nice moment after the sniping in the press from Nibali that Wiggo apologised on the line and it was accepted.

I was in the Phoenix Park when Tom Steeles won the sprint in 1998 and the crash just before the gates. That year was nothing special - Pantani won comfortably and his only realistic challenger was Jan Ullrich. I've seen every tour since as well and enjoy this one as much for the tactics. Even in commentary Phil Liggit (probably the most knowledgable out there) has said he can't remember the last Tour when so many feel they can win the Tour, and he can't remember the last Tour with so many attacks. Yesterday they jumped right off the start line!!

It's all about opinions but i think people are missing out on the fact that Sky are so incredibly strong that we don't have as many blistering attacks a la the Ullrich-Lance-Pantani era, when for the most part all 3 would be isolated and attacking each other. If Nibali and Evans could have got Wiggins isolated then yeah we might have had a bit more excitement.

We're seeing the emergence of 3 potential superstars this year in Froome, van Garderen and Thibaut Pinot, a battle between Cav and Greipel, and an amazing show of climbing strength from Sky. I'm loving it anyway but each to their own.

Pantani, for all his faults, was one of the most exciting riders to watch, and that I've ever seen. Liggett is an idiot btw, I'm actually amazed someone thinks he's knowledgeable. There's only been one winner for a while, barring Froome going crazy, and there's been very few attacks.We've had two from Nibali and one from Evans. Van den Broeck is the only one who's providing some sort of excitement imo.


This Tour has literally been Sky bringing the peleton along US Postal style, and dominating the race, only Wiggins won't attack at the end of it unlike Lance, and there's no Ullrich type figure to battle him imo.

wonderfullife

titan18 wrote: »

Pantani, for all his faults, was one of the most exciting riders to watch, and that I've ever seen. Liggett is an idiot btw, I'm actually amazed someone thinks he's knowledgeable. There's only been one winner for a while, barring Froome going crazy, and there's been very few attacks.We've had two from Nibali and one from Evans. Van den Broeck is the only one who's providing some sort of excitement imo.


This Tour has literally been Sky bringing the peleton along US Postal style, and dominating the race, only Wiggins won't attack at the end of it unlike Lance, and there's no Ullrich type figure to battle him imo.

Wiggo has no incentive to attack....would you? If you were in his spot and knowing he has another 2 mins theoretically in hand for the last time trial, why would you attack at the end? Evans challenge has petered out but Nibali will still have a good go in the Pyrenees. Van den Broeck is riding well but he's far enough down on GC to be allowed to jump across.

titan18

wonderfullife wrote: »

Wiggo has no incentive to attack....would you? If you were in his spot and knowing he has another 2 mins theoretically in hand for the last time trial, why would you attack at the end? Evans challenge has petered out but Nibali will still have a good go in the Pyrenees. Van den Broeck is riding well but he's far enough down on GC to be allowed to jump across.

I agree, he doesn't need to. He's riding his own race, and he'll probably win, but that doesn't mean it's exciting racing, or fun to watch.

wonderfullife

titan18 wrote: »

I agree, he doesn't need to. He's riding his own race, and he'll probably win, but that doesn't mean it's exciting racing, or fun to watch.

But i don't get the Lance comparison or why he made it more exciting. Lets recap here: 2001 Lance won by 7 mins, 2002 by 7 mins, 2003 by 1 min, 2004 by 6 mins, 2005 by 5 mins - this year we have 6 riders within 6 minutes of yellow thus far. In the Lance years 5th place was generally 14-16 mins behind at the end of the Tour. This year we have a lot more competition and attacks. The previous tours might have appeared more exciting due to attacks by Ullrich, Pantani, Basso, Kloden, Beloki etc but realitically speaking all of them were a procession. It hasn't been like that this year.

Anyway consensus appears to be it's a poor renewal of the Tour but i've watched nearly every minute of it so far and have thoroughly enjoyed it and expect a good few days in the Pyrenees.

manafana

miller was a doper among dopers, the majority did what he did, so he cheated himself and the public but not really his fellow riders.

Many have been caught and remained silent serving bans, Valverde, Basso, Di Luca etc. Miller instead choose to come forward and admit it outright, no denying or silence. that has to be congratulated its been rare that those caught have actually spoken out.

Armstrong fell out with him over it too, so just goes show what that man wants from riders caught doping.

On todays stage looks like bunch sprint, not sure cav or greipel will be good to get over the lump sagan for the win for me.

titan18

wonderfullife wrote: »

But i don't get the Lance comparison or why he made it more exciting. Lets recap here: 2001 Lance won by 7 mins, 2002 by 7 mins, 2003 by 1 min, 2004 by 6 mins, 2005 by 5 mins - this year we have 6 riders within 6 minutes of yellow thus far. In the Lance years 5th place was generally 14-16 mins behind at the end of the Tour. This year we have a lot more competition and attacks. The previous tours might have appeared more exciting due to attacks by Ullrich, Pantani, Basso, Kloden, Beloki etc but realitically speaking all of them were a procession. It hasn't been like that this year.

Anyway consensus appears to be it's a poor renewal of the Tour but i've watched nearly every minute of it so far and have thoroughly enjoyed it and expect a good few days in the Pyrenees.

Lance did win by a lot of time alright, but he attacked. Ullrich tried to attack, Pantani, Beloki, Botero. Lance's attacks were devastating on a lot of the field. I mean you just even need to look at youtube footage to see that, even if you cant remember the stages.

From this Tour, what are the highlight moments so far? Barring the Froome attack, there's been nothing tbh that people are going to look back on. In comparison to other Tours where we've had the likes of Pantani, Lance, Ullrich, Contador etc, or even stuff like the Landis attack into Morzine, there's been nothing exciting about this Tour. It might change next week, but again looking at the route, I don't see it.

Also, don't really see it as more competition or attacks. Definitely not more attacks, and Wiggins has looked like the winner for a while.

manafana

you cant compare the 90s to now for attacks, its a more human peleton now you will pay alot more for your exploits if launching crazed attacks. As has been said riding without going into the red is key 99% of time.

titan18

manafana wrote: »

you cant compare the 90s to now for attacks, its a more human peleton now you will pay alot more for your exploits if launching crazed attacks. As has been said riding without going into the red is key 99% of time.

I knew someone would say that. This year we've had imo a very good Giro with Rodriguez who does attack, and Hesjedal, along with De Gendt. Even the other Sky riders, Uran and Henao are far more classy riders imo than Wiggins.

Frank Schleck has been crap this year, and doesn't seem interested. Andy got hurt, Contador aint back til the Vuelta, Anton is racing the Vuelta I think. The best climbers arent at this Tour, and tbh, the route wouldn't suit them considering the lack of mountain finishes, and the amount of time trialing. When you look at the Giro's route, which was tougher, and the Vuelta's route, it's clear why some climbers would avoid this Tour.

Even going back to other races this year, we had Boonen's attack in the Paris-Roubaix and Sagan throughout the season.

Whilst the likes of Pantani etc are gone, that doesn't mean exciting racing has to die.

BQQ

Hope Morkov can hang on here.

5th anniversary of his father's passing.


Important for Saxo to get a win on the board too.

Wishbone Ash

wonderfullife wrote: »

Wiggo has no incentive to attack....would you? If you were in his spot and knowing he has another 2 mins theoretically in hand for the last time trial, why would you attack at the end?

....as the The Badger used to say "I race to win, not to please people".

wonderfullife

BQQ wrote: »

Hope Morkov can hang on here.

5th anniversary of his father's passing.


Important for Saxo to get a win on the board too.

he's certainly giving it everything, it'll be close and depend how much time he has over the top of the little climb......fingers crossed he doesn't get swamped in the last few hundred metres.

wonderfullife

2.24 at 34km, not gonna happen unfortunately, he'll need about 2.10/2.20 at 20km and he wont have much more than 1.25 at this rate

CramCycle

What happend in that mini crash, just seen the polka dopt jersey getting back up?

retalivity

roche pushed on with evans & van de broeck up that last hill

Carpenter

Is it possable to watch this online

CramCycle

Is it possable to watch this online

TG4 live player

corny

Shame Lotto are control of this. Roche might have fancied his chances had they shed more sprinters.

wonderfullife

If Sagan pushed his front wheel he'd have won the sprint but fair play to Greipel. Interesting to see Wiggins leading out Boasen-Hagen.

Carpenter

Fecking internet in turkey is **** whats going on

Ormus

I can't understand people calling Wiggins boring. It's up to his competitors to make it exciting by challenging him. Sky are doing a great job but the lack of competition is whats making this Tour a procession.

titan18

Ormus wrote: »

I can't understand people calling Wiggins boring. It's up to his competitors to make it exciting by challenging him. Sky are doing a great job but the lack of competition is whats making this Tour a procession.

What makes you say that Wiggins isn't boring?

JacksonHeightsOwn

i didnt catch this stage lads.

did Cav crash, how come he wasnt in the mix?

titan18

chrisbonnie wrote: »

i didnt catch this stage lads.

did Cav crash, how come he wasnt in the mix?

Shelled out the back on the 3rd cat climb

JacksonHeightsOwn

titan18 wrote: »

Shelled out the back on the 3rd cat climb

id say he regrets joining sky now. He's not getting any help at all is he.

Darkglasses

His talent is being squandered, its shameful.

Ormus

titan18 wrote: »

What makes you say that Wiggins isn't boring?

Every rider on their own is boring. Its only competition which makes cycling entertaining. If Wiggins wants to win the TdF he has to try to be as efficient as possible. If he attacks when he doesn't need to he is just an idiot.

manafana

its not really, he knew he would have to share with brad, htc was a a rare team with few gc ambitions based purely around winning sprint stages.

Hes won plenty else as a sky rider, and they have looked after him well for a go at olympics.

aindriu80

retalivity wrote: »

roche pushed on with evans & van de broeck up that last hill

I saw that , where is he on the G.C now ?

AG2R

still 13th

titan18

Ormus wrote: »

Every rider on their own is boring. Its only competition which makes cycling entertaining. If Wiggins wants to win the TdF he has to try to be as efficient as possible. If he attacks when he doesn't need to he is just an idiot.

I wouldn't say every rider. Some examples of non boring riders would be Pantani at his best, Contador, Sagan, Hoogerland, Pirazzi, Rodriguez, EBH can be pretty exciting to watch, Gilbert last year etc.

Wiggins is a robot. He doesn't attack, he just seems to go at the same speed the whole way up the climb. What's worse is it's not like someone like Basso or someone like Simoni, who'd go at a punishing pace up a long climb and destroy anyone who tries to stay on his wheel. Wiggins knows he'll win in the time trial, and if no one takes too much out of him on the mountains, and with the route this year being so unadventurous in the mountains, it's easy for him to do that. I don't disagree with his tactics, they're smart for him, but I disagree with a Tour being won in the time trials as exciting, or Wiggins being exciting to watch.

Ormus

titan18 wrote: »

I wouldn't say every rider. Some examples of non boring riders would be Pantani at his best, Contador, Sagan, Hoogerland, Pirazzi, Rodriguez, EBH can be pretty exciting to watch, Gilbert last year etc.

Wiggins is a robot. He doesn't attack, he just seems to go at the same speed the whole way up the climb. What's worse is it's not like someone like Basso or someone like Simoni, who'd go at a punishing pace up a long climb and destroy anyone who tries to stay on his wheel. Wiggins knows he'll win in the time trial, and if no one takes too much out of him on the mountains, and with the route this year being so unadventurous in the mountains, it's easy for him to do that. I don't disagree with his tactics, they're smart for him, but I disagree with a Tour being won in the time trials as exciting, or Wiggins being exciting to watch.

But they are all only exciting because they are competing against other riders. If Contador in his pomp was in this race Wiggins would have had to attack. But he isn't. So he doesn't. He would be a fool to attack unnecessarily. If Contador was in Wiggins place in the Sky team he would also be boring.

I completely agree that Wiggins isn't as impulsive or agressive as Pantani but thats because he has a better team and he is a good time trialler and is a lot more sane than Pantani.

titan18

Ormus wrote: »

But they are all only exciting because they are competing against other riders. If Contador in his pomp was in this race Wiggins would have had to attack. But he isn't. So he doesn't. He would be a fool to attack unnecessarily. If Contador was in Wiggins place in the Sky team he would also be boring.

I completely agree that Wiggins isn't as impulsive or agressive as Pantani but thats because he has a better team and he is a good time trialler and is a lot more sane than Pantani.

I agree about the other riders part, like this years Giro being pretty close to the end. On Contador, I think he would attack, he can't wait to a time trial and win on that. He'd have to go, and he has the ability to take a good bit of time out of the other riders. Wiggins imo doesn't, I don't think he'd be capable of attacking someone like Contador on a climb either.

I know it's a classic race, so the same level of endurance aint needed, but Boonen attacked from 50+ km out in the Paris Roubaix. Boonen has the ability to wait til the end of the race and outsprint everyone, but he took the race to everyone and attacked, and blew everyone away. Wiggins does not do that. It might not be that he doesn't have the ability to do it, or just that he won't, but it's not entertaining to watch.

Some riders are just naturally more aggressive than others. I mean for years Evans would never attack, then there was the stuff with Andy and Frank consistently looking over the shoulder to see where they were. I didn't find that entertaining. I dont mind if it's the dancing springing attacks of the likes of Contador, Pantani,Ricco etc or if it's the climbers who will go and sit on the front and ride everyone else off their wheel. Wiggins doesn't do any of that. He doesn't even try to liven the race up a bit by doing it.

Tbf, I agree he'd be an idiot to do it. Winning a race as efficiently as possible should be the goal, but as a spectator, it's not entertaining to watch.

Lumen

titan18 wrote: »

Some examples of non boring riders would be Pantani at his best...Wiggins is a robot...What's worse is it's not like someone like Basso...Some riders are just naturally more aggressive than others...I dont mind if it's the dancing springing attacks of the likes of Contador, Pantani,Ricco...Wiggins doesn't do any of that. He doesn't even try to liven the race up a bit by doing it.

Likes: naturally aggressive riders like Pantani, Basso, Contador, Ricco.
Dislikes: Wiggins.

After all the insinuation and speculation about Wiggins you've posted on this forum, this is what it boils down to?

ashleey

And:

Dislikes: dopers (Millar)
Likes: err Contador, Basso

titan18

Lumen wrote: »

Likes: naturally aggressive riders like Pantani, Basso, Contador, Ricco.
Dislikes: Wiggins.

After all the insinuation and speculation about Wiggins you've posted on this forum, this is what it boils down to?

Nope, I dislike doping, or any form of cheating. I never said I like those riders either, I just find them entertaining to watch. I do like Contador though, and Pantani. But, if you're going to dope, at least be entertaining and attacking e.g the Landis attack into Morzine after the horrible day before, that was brilliant viewing, but clearly he was on something to do it. I still respect him to an extent for doing that. If they're going to be boring about it, I cant really respect them in the same way.