Prop trading in Dublin

razor425

Hi guys,

Does anyone here know what is the average salary for a first year trainee trader in Dublin?

rs500ff

Around the €30k mark.

I work in financial recruitment.
PM me if you like?

mono627

Depends what you make yourself in the markets. Base salary is small. Upside is potentially unlimited though usually small for first few years.

Johnny Cage

Don't you just get loans until you are profitable in prop trading firms?

You are basically self employed, you have to make your money from the markets, no one is going to pay you a salary. In fact you will be paying a % of your profits to pay for desk fees, equipment etc when you are/if profitable

neil.p.b

Johnny Cage wrote: »

Don't you just get loans until you are profitable in prop trading firms?

You are basically self employed, you have to make your money from the markets, no one is going to pay you a salary. In fact you will be paying a % of your profits to pay for desk fees, equipment etc when you are/if profitable

Some are like this but many will also pay a base salary as well as %s.

Marcus Halberstam

Johnny Cage wrote: »

Don't you just get loans until you are profitable in prop trading firms?

You are basically self employed, you have to make your money from the markets, no one is going to pay you a salary. In fact you will be paying a % of your profits to pay for desk fees, equipment etc when you are/if profitable

I'm not in the industry yet but the pure futures trading firms seem to be like this. I know one of the most established firms used to give a basic salary but now has an apprentice program.

I reckon the more sophisticated firms like SIG (Susquehanna) pay salary as it's a much longer training path and you don't have the autonomy to pay your way so you can't be expected to live on nothing

ixus

A lot of incorrect information here. Am away at the moment so cant comment properly

My understanding on susq is they offer a great basic salary with lower bonus. The futures prop firms offer very low salaries so that you can earn more quicker. If you were on a high salary and not producing returns they would have to cut you quicker. Its a business and you are either revenue generating or not. The lower you salary the longer they can give you to make it. It increases your chances of making it

odd1

hi

what are the requirements to start first year training, with a prop company?

freeze4real

My bro works for SIG. Easiest way to get in IMO is through computer science or some quantitative role.

FInance/ecoomics or business related stuff is way below the pecking order.

Sig pays up to 55000 with a 10% BONUS, I know this as I have spken to HR personally who's from SIG, its funy how I know a lot more about SIG than my bro who works there.

The main reason why SIG pays great is that they'vebeen arround for a long time so they have the cash to pay. Other prop frms are new so they require funding from traders itself.

Sig is actually one of the best prop firms to work for in Ireland, the atmosphere there is great free breakfast and lunch some after work activitees etc.

There's also overseas training provided which is paid for e.g usa for 6months, what they want back from you is the results.

There some props firms in Dublin which are not as big as SIG that has over 250 employers in Dublin.

A few are state street positive equity geneva and first derivate.

First derivative pays arround 21000 per year, theres alot of travelling and working which i'm not sure is paid maybe/maybe not.

Mr_Roger_Bongos

freeze4real wrote: »

The main reason why SIG pays great is that they'vebeen arround for a long time so they have the cash to pay. Other prop frms are new so they require funding from traders itself.

Sig is actually one of the best prop firms to work for in Ireland

There some props firms in Dublin which are not as big as SIG that has over 250 employers in Dublin.

A few are state street positive equity geneva and first derivate.

First derivative pays arround 21000 per year, theres alot of travelling and working which i'm not sure is paid maybe/maybe not.

SIG is one,if not the biggest and best prop trading firms in the world. Especially in options. Some of the stuff Jeff Yass (google him) did in his early days is mind blowing.

Their entry requirements are extremely high and only the top few percent of Irish graduates would have a shot at entry. You need to be razor sharp on your math/stats, prefereably with a masters in a quant subject and poker knowledge seems to help (They hold an annual poker event for potential new hires as a talent spotting exercise).

Starting out in SIG as a AT, assistant trader, you'll essentially be maintaining their models which are used by the traders to make decisions. Do this for a few years and you progress to Trader where the bonuses can be extremely lucrative. SIG don't have a london office but from the Dublin office, bonuses are comfortably in line with that of hedge fund traders in London (all performance related of course).

You know First Derivatives don't do prop trading right?

I'd also be very surprised if State Street have any front office activites in Dublin.

ixus

Its certainly not as rosey in sig as is being painted. No trader is going to be in great form if they are not making money. A 10% bonus on any profits you make is poor in comparison to other firms as i pointed out. They all have their pros and cons.

Still away.

Tarzann

It was stated that poker ability is seen as an advantage when applying to SIG.
What about betting/trading on live sport on betting exchanges?
I have made a consistent profit at this for the last few years on various sports, some which require very fast thinking, others where you have longer to decide on your bet, depending on the "speed" of the sport. I read on another thread about finding your own niche or strategy in prop trading, I have found my own niches in sports betting which have proven to be consistently profitable.
Am just wondering how favourable this would be looked upon if I were to apply.
I have a Masters in Electronic Engineering and strong maths results (LC HL A1 and kept it up through college).

Underpaid Mike

Geneva, PE etc dont pay a base salary by and large.
You pay them a monthly fee for IT/Comp/Exchange access etc and then also take a % of your profits
They also have very strict risk management
Ruthless business model, they are there to make money and if you dont perform you are gone

parc

freeze4real wrote: »

My bro works for SIG. Easiest way to get in IMO is through computer science or some quantitative role.

FInance/ecoomics or business related stuff is way below the pecking order.

Finance and economics degrees are pretty heavily quant based. As least here in the UK universities (I'm Irish but been living over there for the last while)

You need an A* in Maths (A1 in the Leaving) to get into the good Unis for Economic BSc Undergrad

Business is much less mathematical though I agree

ixus

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

Geneva, PE etc dont pay a base salary by and large.
You pay them a monthly fee for IT/Comp/Exchange access etc and then also take a % of your profits
They also have very strict risk management
Ruthless business model, they are there to make money and if you dont perform you are gone

Regarding fees and % profits. How would a company make money if it didn't take any of either? I would imagine monthly fees go towards paying IT, operational and accounting staff. Then, a company has to make a profit. Not to forget that these type of companies provide the leverage required to help traders access markets i.e. they put their own capital at risk. Are they not entitled to a return for their investment?

Very strict risk management is a GOOD thing.

Name a single trading company, hedge fund or bank that keeps hold of traders that don't perform? Apart from Irish banks!

ixus

Tarzann wrote: »

It was stated that poker ability is seen as an advantage when applying to SIG.
What about betting/trading on live sport on betting exchanges?
I have made a consistent profit at this for the last few years on various sports, some which require very fast thinking, others where you have longer to decide on your bet, depending on the "speed" of the sport. I read on another thread about finding your own niche or strategy in prop trading, I have found my own niches in sports betting which have proven to be consistently profitable.
Am just wondering how favourable this would be looked upon if I were to apply.
I have a Masters in Electronic Engineering and strong maths results (LC HL A1 and kept it up through college).

In short, yes, someone who has developed a profitable system is of interest. It shows you can figure things out and make money.

Underpaid Mike

ixus wrote: »

Regarding fees and % profits. How would a company make money if it didn't take any of either? I would imagine monthly fees go towards paying IT, operational and accounting staff. Then, a company has to make a profit. Not to forget that these type of companies provide the leverage required to help traders access markets i.e. they put their own capital at risk. Are they not entitled to a return for their investment?

Very strict risk management is a GOOD thing.

Name a single trading company, hedge fund or bank that keeps hold of traders that don't perform? Apart from Irish banks!

When did i say any of that was a bad thing exactly?
I was simply giving the OP more colour as a lot of people are saying traders get 25-30k basic and have unlimited upside potential etc
Thats true in some cases but for prop houses its a lot different to what people think and is an extremely tough gig. Only the exceptional make big money, everyone else works 14 hour days to get by