Flat roof to pitched roof , do I need planning permission?

Greendiamond

Hi

Want to convert our garage and change the flat roof to a pitched roof. Do I need planning? If so what do i need ?

Do i need plans ? I don't have an architect
Who could I get to draw the plans?
How long would it take to get the permission ?

Many thanks

DOCARCH

You may not require planning permission.

Get an architect or AT to advise you on planning, draw up plans of what you propose/want (you will need these for a builder anayway) and apply for a Section 5 Declaration regarding the roof.

Conversion of the Garage is generally/can be exempt (subject to certain criteria) and assuming the Garage is connected to the house?

Regarding the roof, if you apply for a Section 5 Declaration, the planners will decide whether what you propose does or does not require planning permission.

You may not require planning permission under Section 4.1(h) of the Planning Regulations that states:

“development consisting of the carrying out of works for the maintenance, improvement or other alteration of any structure, being works which affect only the interior of the structure or which do not materially affect the external appearance of the structure so as to render the appearance inconsistent with the character of the structure or of neighbouring structures.”

However some Councils can interpret this differently than others.

Greendiamond

Thanks for that info, very helpful:)

richban

DOCARCH wrote: »

You may not require planning permission.

Get an architect or AT to advise you on planning, draw up plans of what you propose/want (you will need these for a builder anayway) and apply for a Section 5 Declaration regarding the roof.

Conversion of the Garage is generally/can be exempt (subject to certain criteria) and assuming the Garage is connected to the house?

Regarding the roof, if you apply for a Section 5 Declaration, the planners will decide whether what you propose does or does not require planning permission.

You may not require planning permission under Section 4.1(h) of the Planning Regulations that states:

“development consisting of the carrying out of works for the maintenance, improvement or other alteration of any structure, being works which affect only the interior of the structure or which do not materially affect the external appearance of the structure so as to render the appearance inconsistent with the character of the structure or of neighbouring structures.”

However some Councils can interpret this differently than others.

I have read and re-read above extract - surely this means, quite clearly this person requires planning permission to change from flat to pitched roof - I don't understand how you could interpret this in any other way! the change of roof will 'materially affect the external appearance' - end of story

Greendiamond

Hi richban,

Do you think we would get permission to make this change? The reason we want to change is that the kitchen has part of the flat roof and it's less than 8 foot in height and we have been told that's not habitable height. We could lower the floor but we don't want to step down into the kitchen.

I can't remember where I read this but I thought there was something about if the height was lower than 4 meters we might not need permission ??

How long would it take to get the permission do you think ?

DOCARCH

This is the key part of that paragraph:

.....which do not materially affect the external appearance of the structure so as to render the appearance inconsistent with the character of the structure or of neighbouring structures

Changing a flat roof to a pitched roof may not render the appearance inconsistent with the character of the structure or of neighbouring structures.

As I said above, this is open to interpretation by planners. Some planners/some Councils will take a pragmatic view on this, others will not.

richban

OK agreed - I've looked over Class 1 exemptions in SI no 600/2001 - http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/si/0600.html#sched2 - which says (among other things) for such a conversion/extension:

The height of the highest part of the roof of any such extension shall not exceed, in the case of a flat roofed extension, the height of the eaves or parapet, as may be appropriate, or, in any other case, shall not exceed the height of the highest part of the roof of the dwelling.

It is open to interpretation - if someone asked me out the blue - does a change in roof from flat to pitch require planning - I would say yes.

However if the garage did not exist and was being built from scratch and met criteria of Class 1 exemptions and had a pitched roof - I would advise that planning was not required.

Planning is confusing sometimes! as is my answer! - if it was me in this situation, I would go apply for planning permission.

Greendiamond

DOCARCH wrote: »

This is the key part of that paragraph:

.....which do not materially affect the external appearance of the structure so as to render the appearance inconsistent with the character of the structure or of neighbouring structures

Changing a flat roof to a pitched roof may not render the appearance inconsistent with the character of the structure or of neighbouring structures.

As I said above, this is open to interpretation by planners. Some planners/some Councils will take a pragmatic view on this, others will not.

This is pretty much what a builder told me, to go down nicely with your plans to make this 'small change' and I might get lucky

Anyone hazard a guess at how long the process takes ?

Poor Uncle Tom

richban wrote: »

OK agreed - I've looked over Class 1 exemptions in SI no 600/2001 - http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/si/0600.html#sched2 - which says (among other things) for such a conversion/extension:

The height of the highest part of the roof of any such extension shall not exceed, in the case of a flat roofed extension, the height of the eaves or parapet, as may be appropriate, or, in any other case, shall not exceed the height of the highest part of the roof of the dwelling.

It is open to interpretation - if someone asked me out the blue - does a change in roof from flat to pitch require planning - I would say yes.

However if the garage did not exist and was being built from scratch and met criteria of Class 1 exemptions and had a pitched roof - I would advise that planning was not required.

Planning is confusing sometimes! as is my answer! - if it was me in this situation, I would go apply for planning permission.

You need to be careful here as you are quoting from Class 1 which only applies to the conversion of the garage to part of the house, in this case.

Class 3 would apply to the construction of the garage (including the roof) in the first instance.

Therefore if the roof can be made to comply with Class 3 it would be acceptable to to change the roof while the structure is a garage. Then after the roof is completed look as to whether a conversion from garage to habitable accommodation can occur under Class 1, imo.

DOCARCH

Hi Greendiamond, I'd suggest get somebody to draw up your plans first and then take it from there. Then call in to your local planning department to discuss.

If they say, generally they feel what you want to do is exempt, I would still suggest applying for a Section 5 Declartaion - takes 4 weeks - so that at least you will have a piece of paper from the Council confirming it it exempt. If the planners consider it not exempt, then obvioulsy you need to apply for planning permission - takes 8 weeks for a decision.

First, I would suggest you get somebody to assess whether or not the proposed garage conversion itself (aside from the roof) is exempt from the requirement to obtain planning permission.

Poor Uncle Tom

Greendiamond wrote: »

Anyone hazard a guess at how long the process takes ?

A Section 5 declaration can take as long as a planning application. A planning application can take up to 12 weeks to go through maybe longer if there are complications.

As suggested by Docarch, it would be advisable to get a good local Architect/Arch Tech to advise, you will need drawings in any case.

Greendiamond

DOCARCH wrote: »

Hi Greendiamond, I'd suggest get somebody to draw up your plans first and then take it from there. Then call in to your local planning department to discuss.

If they say, generally they feel what you want to do is exempt, I would still suggest applying for a Section 5 Declartaion - takes 4 weeks - so that at least you will have a piece of paper from the Council confirming it it exempt. If the planners consider it not exempt, then obvioulsy you need to apply for planning permission - takes 8 weeks for a decision.

First, I would suggest you get somebody to assess whether or not the proposed garage conversion itself (aside from the roof) is exempt from the requirement to obtain planning permission.

As far as I know you can convert your garage for living space without needing planning permission?? . Will go and get the plans drawn up. Does it have to be an architect /technician for this ? Could anyone else do it ? We aren't bothering with an architect for the work as we are not doing that much and trying to keep the cost down. Any idea on cost of getting his done ?
Sorry for all the questions ! Thanks for your help

DOCARCH

richban wrote: »

Planning is confusing sometimes!

No argument there!

A lot depends on the attitude of the planner/Council - interpretation of exempt development can sometimes be a little subjective!

That's why I would always suggest to somebody (in grey situations like this) to get a Section 5 Declaration. At least then, if down the road when selling the house and/or if doing the works and a neighbour complains, there will be no question mark over the planning status.

DOCARCH

Greendiamond wrote: »

Does it have to be an architect /technician for this ? Could anyone else do it ?

Yes, but I'd suggest an architect or technician would have more experience or be better able to advise you on planning and/or exemption.

Not sure who else you might be considering? An engineer? A surveyor? Not sure they would be any cheaper?

Greendiamond

I spoke to a couple of architects this morning and for a survey and do draw the plans (no design) prices were 800-1200 , does that seem reasonable ?

They said I would be looking at 3 months from starting the process to being allowed to commence work.

My big problems the flat roof is leaking quite badly and I am not sure we can wait that long

sydthebeat

Greendiamond wrote: »

I spoke to a couple of architects this morning and for a survey and do draw the plans (no design) prices were 800-1200 , does that seem reasonable ?

They said I would be looking at 3 months from starting the process to being allowed to commence work.

My big problems the flat roof is leaking quite badly and I am not sure we can wait that long

If you are not happy with the quotes, get
more. Ask around, to people who have had similar work done.

those quotes are on the high side just to submit a section 5 ... Did you ask for anything more that this?

DOCARCH

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

A Section 5 declaration can take as long as a planning application. A planning application can take up to 12 weeks to go through maybe longer if there are complications.

Only just saw this now. There is a statutory time limit, as far as I am aware, of 4 weeks to assess and issue a decision on a Section 5.

Well, in Dublin anyway! :pac:

Poor Uncle Tom

DOCARCH wrote: »

There is a statutory time limit, as far as I am aware, of 4 weeks to assess and issue a decision on a Section 5.

Thank you that's right, I was mistaken by saying it could take as long as a planning application.

Greendiamond

sydthebeat wrote: »

If you are not happy with the quotes, get
more. Ask around, to people who have had similar work done.

those quotes are on the high side just to submit a section 5 ... Did you ask for anything more that this?

This includes a survey which she said I needed prior to doing the drawings and then the putting together of the planning application.

Another one was 500 to do the drawings and submit for the planning

No design in either quote

icebergiceberg

DOCARCH wrote: »

You may not require planning permission.

Get an architect or AT to advise you on planning, draw up plans of what you propose/want (you will need these for a builder anayway) and apply for a Section 5 Declaration regarding the roof.

Conversion of the Garage is generally/can be exempt (subject to certain criteria) and assuming the Garage is connected to the house?

Regarding the roof, if you apply for a Section 5 Declaration, the planners will decide whether what you propose does or does not require planning permission.

You may not require planning permission under Section 4.1(h) of the Planning Regulations that states:

“development consisting of the carrying out of works for the maintenance, improvement or other alteration of any structure, being works which affect only the interior of the structure or which do not materially affect the external appearance of the structure so as to render the appearance inconsistent with the character of the structure or of neighbouring structures.”

However some Councils can interpret this differently than others.

I have a flat felted garage attached to my house and it is forever leaking. The roof of my garage runs smoothly across my neighbour's adjoining garage which is also of the same construction. We are divided by a slim brick wall underneath.

I want to build a low pitched roof with proper gutters and downpipes etc. Do I need PP? Thanks for any info.