Poor Lennox.......

Karlitto

http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/11/12682079-lennox-dog-condemned-as-pitbull-is-put-to-death-in-belfast

/Discuss

I personally am unbelievably outraged....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wT0cYdy1Ho&sns=fb

The Sweeper

Karlitto wrote: »

Oh, and the video of the assesment which determined that this poor little dog should be murdered (note the male assesor is clearly afraid of dogs, and there for should not be performing personality assesments on dogs, check out 1:28 and 1:32 to see him standing up in fear and pulling his arm away in fear....)

The video did not determine the dog should be euthanised. The assessment did not determine the dog should be euthanised.

Lennox was euthanised after his owner plead guilty to owning a dog of pitbull type. Attempts to change the law through behavioural assessment failed because Lennox was not of sufficiently solid temperament to ace a behavioural assessment.

If you're going to join the bandwagon, please do some research so you fully understand the case.

kildare.17hmr

I dont think he should have been PTS and imo it was as much th owners fault as anyone elses. Sure was he not offered a place in a rescue in the republic and they refused??

And murder is an illegal act carried out by one human on another. Putting a dog to sleep is not now or has it ever been murder no matter what anyone says

Karlitto

Seems the public are not too happy about this either....

https://www.facebook.com/belfastcitycouncil?ref=ts

Whispered

Op have a read.

http://www.llaav.com/index.php/the-truth-2

The Sweeper

Karlitto wrote: »

I don't care what the difinition of murder is in the dictionary quite frankly.

Human, dog, cat, bird, if you kill it, it is murder in my eyes.

Yes yes, they're very bad people.

What are you going to do about it?

Have you written to your local member of parliament or other government representative? Have you written to DEFRA in the UK to ask them to give you an update on the status of their review of the Dangerous Dogs Act? Have you lodged a complaint with Belfast City Council? Have you phoned the RSPCA and asked them whether or not they intend to investigate BCC's treatment of Lennox in captivity?

If you don't live in a jurisdiction that has BSL, what are you doing to make sure that they don't introduce BSL?

The Save Lennox campaign was, for a long time, clicktivism of the worst kind. Lots of online ranting, but no real impact on outcomes.

kildare.17hmr

Karlitto wrote: »

I don't care what the difinition of murder is in the dictionary quite frankly.

Human, dog, cat, bird, if you kill it, it is murder in my eyes.

yeah well no matter what YOU think about it, No its not, your wrong.

I always wonder about some people like the comment lifted from the BCC facebook page below

Marie Müller hope you and all your familys will die and rot in hell. you don´t deserve to live!!!
8 minutes ago · 2

Again i do not agree with him being put down but crazys like this do nothimg to help a situation

Bad Panda

The Sweeper wrote: »

Yes yes, they're very bad people.

What are you going to do about it?

Have you written to your local member of parliament or other government representative? Have you written to DEFRA in the UK to ask them to give you an update on the status of their review of the Dangerous Dogs Act? Have you lodged a complaint with Belfast City Council? Have you phoned the RSPCA and asked them whether or not they intend to investigate BCC's treatment of Lennox in captivity?

If you don't live in a jurisdiction that has BSL, what are you doing to make sure that they don't introduce BSL?

The Save Lennox campaign was, for a long time, clicktivism of the worst kind. Lots of online ranting, but no real impact on outcomes.

You're the one that needs to bone up their research.

Numerous alternative arrangements were knocked back including Cesar Milan offering to pay for the the dog to be taken of the city's hands and be shipped over to the States where he'd be homed.

Why on earth were they so adamant to kill the dog?! It's ridiculous.

rainbowtrout

Bad Panda wrote: »

You're the one that needs to bone up their research.

Numerous alternative arrangements were knocked back including Cesar Milan offering to pay for the the dog to be taken of the city's hands and be shipped over to the States where he'd be homed.

Why on earth were they so adamant to kill the dog?! It's ridiculous.

The family were also given the option of having the dog brought down south, an offer they didn't take. So while the dog probably shouldn't have been put down, there's a lot more going on behind the scenes. If the family cared enough about their dog and it was clear that they weren't going to get the dog back, surely they would have supported a solution that would have allowed the dog to live and be rehomed even if it was not in NI?

I suspect that once the courts made the ruling that Lennox was to be put to sleep last month they weren't going to release him to anyone as it would make a farce of their legal system by saying the dog was dangerous but they were willing to let someone else take it.

toadfly

OP there is another thread on this, have a read of it.

The Sweeper

Bad Panda wrote: »

You're the one that needs to bone up their research.

Numerous alternative arrangements were knocked back including Cesar Milan offering to pay for the the dog to be taken of the city's hands and be shipped over to the States where he'd be homed.

Why on earth were they so adamant to kill the dog?! It's ridiculous.

You don't understand the law, do you?

It doesn't matter who offered, at the end of his time, to take Lennox. At that stage the dog had been confirmed as an illegal breed, his owner had plead guilty to owning an illegal breed, nobody petitioned the COURTS to release the dog from NI jurisdiction, and the council had the excuse that they were exercising the law when they refused offers to rehome the dog including the generous offer from Victoria Stilwell to absorb all of the costs of transporting the dog, and homing him with a sanctuary where he would not have contact with the public.

The council used the behavioural assessments as an excuse to knock back the offers, saying the dog was unpredictable and dangerous and unsuitable to be rehomed anywhere, regardless of who was offering.

Their insistence on killing the dog remains to be explained, as does refusal to release the body, his collar or anything else that would identify him.

Karlitto

The Sweeper wrote: »

You don't understand the law, do you?

It doesn't matter who offered, at the end of his time, to take Lennox. At that stage the dog had been confirmed as an illegal breed, his owner had plead guilty to owning an illegal breed, nobody petitioned the COURTS to release the dog from NI jurisdiction, and the council had the excuse that they were exercising the law when they refused offers to rehome the dog including the generous offer from Victoria Stilwell to absorb all of the costs of transporting the dog, and homing him with a sanctuary where he would not have contact with the public.

The council used the behavioural assessments as an excuse to knock back the offers, saying the dog was unpredictable and dangerous and unsuitable to be rehomed anywhere, regardless of who was offering.

Their insistence on killing the dog remains to be explained, as does refusal to release the body, his collar or anything else that would identify him.

That was infact the owners downfall alright, HOWEVER, the dog was NOT a pitbull, or even a pitbull type, it was a labrador / American bulldog. But, unfortunately, if you get an american bulldog in ireland (not sure about the uk) there is no "american bulldog" breed and it is classified as a pitbull, which is wrong.... bulldogs and pitbulls are two different breeds completely.

But it is sad to think that my littl guy gimli could be brought up under the same ledgislation if I lived in the UK seeing how he is a labrador staff cross (rescue)

Still, it sickens me.

The Sweeper

Look, I'm going to bow out of this thread, because I'm pissed off.

I'm so pissed off I could explode.

I'm pissed off at the STUPID fuckin Facebook clicktivism BULLSHIT. I'm pissed off at the inane, moronic comments about how Belfast City Council will 'regret this in the future' and so on.

Why, what's going to happen? Are people on Facebook going to keep being mean about them? Well whoopdie fuckin doo, that appears to have had precisely no effect whatsoever when it comes to them not euthanising the dog.

They had a petition with around 200,000 signatures, but petition has been devalued since the arrival of the internet. What else did they have? Anyone who wrote to BCC with a factually inaccurate protest would have effectively been ignored - or it would have strengthened the council's position of feeling untouchable because the public just didn't understand what was going on.

If I see one more goddamned person write 'oh why didn't they just DNA test him' - WELL HOLY MOTHER OF GOD WHY DIDN'T WE THINK OF THAT??? Maybe because DNA testing is inaccurate and inadmissable in court?

If you do ONE useful thing off the back of this thread, it would be:

• Download and read the legislation
• Download and read the court transcripts so you can understand how the legislation is applied
• WRITE A LETTER. A proper letter. On paper. And certainly not with any of the swearing in this post. Request a response in your letter. And when you get the reponse and it's a bit lacklustre, what then?

WRITE ANOTHER LETTER.

Don't send an email. Don't click 'like' on a facebook page. Don't sign an online petition. Ignore media articles and people's own personal pages, because the information on these is usually inaccurate.

Write a letter on paper, and make a phonecall in person. Electronic warfare is nothing in the face of government legislation. Overloading the front desk switchboard and contributing to a sack of physical letters to be opened and stamped and read and replied to - THAT creates work, and creating work is what gets attention.

Karlitto

The Sweeper wrote: »

Look, I'm going to bow out of this thread, because I'm pissed off.

I'm so pissed off I could explode.

I'm pissed off at the STUPID fuckin Facebook clicktivism BULLSHIT. I'm pissed off at the inane, moronic comments about how Belfast City Council will 'regret this in the future' and so on.

Why, what's going to happen? Are people on Facebook going to keep being mean about them? Well whoopdie fuckin doo, that appears to have had precisely no effect whatsoever when it comes to them not euthanising the dog.

They had a petition with around 200,000 signatures, but petition has been devalued since the arrival of the internet. What else did they have? Anyone who wrote to BCC with a factually inaccurate protest would have effectively been ignored - or it would have strengthened the council's position of feeling untouchable because the public just didn't understand what was going on.

If I see one more goddamned person write 'oh why didn't they just DNA test him' - WELL HOLY MOTHER OF GOD WHY DIDN'T WE THINK OF THAT??? Maybe because DNA testing is inaccurate and inadmissable in court?

If you do ONE useful thing off the back of this thread, it would be:

• Download and read the legislation
• Download and read the court transcripts so you can understand how the legislation is applied
• WRITE A LETTER. A proper letter. On paper. And certainly not with any of the swearing in this post. Request a response in your letter. And when you get the reponse and it's a bit lacklustre, what then?

WRITE ANOTHER LETTER.

Don't send an email. Don't click 'like' on a facebook page. Don't sign an online petition. Ignore media articles and people's own personal pages, because the information on these is usually inaccurate.

Write a letter on paper, and make a phonecall in person. Electronic warfare is nothing in the face of government legislation. Overloading the front desk switchboard and contributing to a sack of physical letters to be opened and stamped and read and replied to - THAT creates work, and creating work is what gets attention.

So, let me get this straight, you are pissed off because people are airing their views and frustration on a public forum? door = >>>>> that way

Karlitto

Whispered wrote: »

Op have a read.

http://www.llaav.com/index.php/the-truth-2

GOod site, however, I lost faith in it when it stated that Lennox was ceased legally. He was a labrador / american bulldog cross, not a pitbull. The reason he was ceased is that he was an illegal breed, a pitbull, so, therefore he was put down for no good reason. Infact, he was put down illegally some might say.

DamagedTrax

Karlitto wrote: »

He was a labrador / american bulldog cross, not a pitbull. The reason he was ceased is that he was an illegal breed, a pitbull, so, therefore he was put down for no good reason. Infact, he was put down illegally some might say.

you're wrong. he was siezed for being a pit bull 'type'. a decision made on characterstics and measurements. nobody has ever claimed he was a pit bull terrier. dont mix up 'breed' with 'type'. unfortunalty a bulldog/lab X can very easily be assesed as a pit bull 'type' and many have been before lennox. also boxer/lab, large staffies, boxer/staffie etc.

as much as people dont agree with the law and as much as many of us believe that he should have been freed, he was siezed within the letter of the law.

fatmammycat

I hope BSL is challenged, I hope it is fought correctly and beaten, I hope in the South the RB list and rules are also changed. But the hysterical reactions of people to one dog being destroyed are doing nothing to further this debate.

DamagedTrax

fatmammycat wrote: »

I hope in the South the RB list and rules are also changed.

to be honest im glad we have it. the alternative would be restricted breeds running free and with all the wannabe gangsters around the place that would spell serious trouble.

if the restrictions keep allowing us to own dogs that other countries have banned then it can only be a good thing and even without the restritions i'd still keep my bitch on a lead 95% of the time.

the one part i would change is the need for a muzzle when on a lead. thats just overkill.

Karlitto

fatmammycat wrote: »

I hope BSL is challenged, I hope it is fought correctly and beaten, I hope in the South the RB list and rules are also changed. But the hysterical reactions of people to one dog being destroyed are doing nothing to further this debate.

Thats because it was made public, it is not often stuff like this is widly known.

And in reference to the point above.

I understand a type and breed are two different things,

But, at the same time, Boxers are classed as pitbull types in the US, which is pathetic.

Using the term "type" is a subjective term and cannot really be challanged, does anyone know where I can find the list of characteristics which determines what "type" of dog a specific dog is?

I mean, at the end of the day, you can say any dog is a pitbull type dog really, for example, "long snout, tale, has 4 legs and tough, medium sized dog"

But still, pitbull and american bulldog are two different breeds and types. I mean, just google a picture of each one and put them side by side. They don't look alike. and well, temperment is down to each individual dog, not a breed.

DamagedTrax

Karlitto wrote: »

Thats because it was made public, it is not often stuff like this is widly known.

And in reference to the point above.

I understand a type and breed are two different things,

But, at the same time, Boxers are classed as pitbull types in the US, which is pathetic.

Using the term "type" is a subjective term and cannot really be challanged, does anyone know where I can find the list of characteristics which determines what "type" of dog a specific dog is?

I mean, at the end of the day, you can say any dog is a pitbull type dog really, for example, "long snout, tale, has 4 legs and tough, medium sized dog"

But still, pitbull and american bulldog are two different breeds and types. I mean, just google a picture of each one and put them side by side. They don't look alike. and well, temperment is down to each individual dog, not a breed.

very few here will argue with you and it definitly needs to be changed but in the case of lennox the letter of the law was applied and he fell into the pitbull 'type' category.

and for characteristics of a pitbull 'type' just look at the american pitbull terrier breed standard.

Zapperzy

Locking this as we already have a thread on the subject.