London travel options

n97 mini

Will be in London towards the end of the summer for a few (3) days. Have a small bit of travelling to do on the underground. No more than 2 or 3 journeys a day. Can anyone tell me is there some sort of rambler ticket type thing that I can get that would be worth my while?

TIA.

Terrontress

n97 mini wrote: »

Will be in London towards the end of the summer for a few (3) days. Have a small bit of travelling to do on the underground. No more than 2 or 3 journeys a day. Can anyone tell me is there some sort of rambler ticket type thing that I can get that would be worth my while?

TIA.

Prepaid Oyster. £5 Deposit on the card. Zone 1 tube journey is about £3 peak, £2 off peak.

The most you can spend in a day is about £9.

Get the card and stick on £10 per day for each day you'll be there. 3 days, £30 plus £5 deposit.

As you leave, take the card back to a tube station for your deposit and the remaining balance.

roundymac

Terrontress wrote: »

Prepaid Oyster. £5 Deposit on the card. Zone 1 tube journey is about £3 peak, £2 off peak.

The most you can spend in a day is about £9.

Get the card and stick on £10 per day for each day you'll be there. 3 days, £30 plus £5 deposit.

As you leave, take the card back to a tube station for your deposit and the remaining balance.

Or better again hold on to your oyster card, the balance will still be valid the next time you go there.

LXFlyer

I would second roundymac's suggestion - I keep the same oyster card and top it up each time I travel.

n97 mini

Oyster it is then. Thanks for the replies.

I can buy an Oyster card at any Tube station?

LXFlyer

Yes you can - it will make life that much easier and is valid on all buses, tube, overground, DLR, and tram services.

n97 mini

I'll probably only use it on the tube (or DLR, tho I won't be over that part of London) as thanks to one handy map I have no problem finding my way around

Lapin

n97 mini wrote: »

I can buy an Oyster card at any Tube station?

Yep.

Or if you're flying into Gatwick or Stansted you can buy it at the airport before you head into London. Handy, as you can use it straight away when you get into town without having to queue again to get one.

Heathrow and City Airport are on the Tube / DLR so they can obviously be purchased at the stations there.

I don't think they can be bought in Luton Airport yet though I could be wrong.

They can also be bought on Eurostar services from Belguim and France.

n97 mini

Can the Oyster card be used for the Gatwick Express? I presume it can't?

Lapin

n97 mini wrote: »

Can the Oyster card be used for the Gatwick Express? I presume it can't?

Nope, The Oyster only works in the travelcard zones in London.
Roughly the area covered by the Tube.

Incidently, if you're getting a train from Gatwick, its worth noting that the First Capital Connect service into London Bridge, The City and St Pancras only takes a few minutes longer than the Gatwick Express and costs less than half the price.

coylemj

n97 mini wrote: »

Can the Oyster card be used for the Gatwick Express? I presume it can't?

No. Agree with everything else said about the Oyster card and it never seems to expire, I used mine this month for the first time since exactly this time last year. Once you've spent as much as a Travelcard for the zones you're travelled in, the rest of the journeys for that day are free.

I was in T2 in Dublin airport the other day and down at the departures gates there was a lady at a desk selling tickets for all of the express trains from the various airports into central London... Heathrow-Paddington Express, Gatwick Express etc. I think she was doing credit cards only, she was right at the bottom of the stairs where the Aer Lingus flights were leaving from.

n97 mini

Lapin wrote: »

Incidently, if you're getting a train from Gatwick, its worth noting that the First Capital Connect service into London Bridge, The City and St Pancras only takes a few minutes longer than the Gatwick Express and costs less than half the price.

Looking back at my bookings I am travelling with First Capital Connect from Gatwick to Elephant & Castle and on to London Marylebone on the tube for £12.70.

Is it true to say that any travel from Gatwick isn't covered by Oyster?

coylemj

n97 mini wrote: »

Is it true to say that any travel from Gatwick isn't covered by Oyster?

Correct. Buy an Oyster card in the first tube station you get to. There is now a large difference between cash fares on the Tube and what the trip will cost with an Oyster card. It's a total no-brainer, even without the daily fare cap.

Lapin

n97 mini wrote: »

Looking back at my bookings I am travelling with First Capital Connect from Gatwick to Elephant & Castle and on to London Marylebone on the tube for £12.70.

You're better off buying your Oyster at the Elephant rather than out in Gatwick then as the queues for the ticket desk will be smaller there or none at all depending on the time of day.

Bakerloo Line from the Elephant direct to Marylebone in about 15 minutes, (9 stops).

LXFlyer

If you are flying into Gatwick, take either the Southern service to Victoria or First Capital Connect service to London Bridge. They are as fast or marginally slower than the Gatwick Express and cost significantly less.

Marcusm

n97 mini wrote: »

Looking back at my bookings I am travelling with First Capital Connect from Gatwick to Elephant & Castle and on to London Marylebone on the tube for £12.70.

Is it true to say that any travel from Gatwick isn't covered by Oyster?

Be careful at Elephant as you will be changing from the overland train (FCC) to the Bakerloo line (underground). The ticket price you've quoted shoud include the underground element. That's a slower version of FCC (used to be called Thameslink) than the one which goes to London Bridge and Has a significant number of stops between East Croydon and E&C whereas the one to London Bridge is non stop and faster.

coylemj

The OP quoted a single price that he/she's paying for Gatwick to Marleybone (£12.70) via FCC to Elephant & Castle and then the Tube so I'm inclined to assume that it's an inclusive fare.

OP, if that's the case then you'll have no need to buy a ticket at E&C but if you see the ticket desk and it's quiet you could buy an Oyster card there or leave it until you get to Marleybone. I think you can buy them from some of the machines but they will certainly sell you one at a ticket desk.

When using the Oyster card, note that if you do not start your first journey of the day until 9:30 a.m. or after, your aggregate charges for the day will be capped at the cost of an off-peak Travelcard which for zones 1 & 2 is £7 or £7.70 if any journey takes you into zones 3 or 4. A ticket for a journey on the Tube in zone 1 costs £4.30 if purchased with cash so it doesn't take long for the Oyster card to make sense, you'll be in profit as long as you make at least two journeys per day!

MarkK

If you are not going for a month or so, you can buy an Oyster card online and have it posted to you.
Saves queueing up when you get to a tube station in London.

http://visitorshop.tfl.gov.uk/oystercard/product/oyster-card.html

Marcusm

coylemj wrote: »

The OP quoted a single price that he's paying for Gatwick to Marleybone (£12.70) via FCC to Elephant & Castle and then the Tube so I'm inclined to assume that it's an inclusive fare.

That's why I suggested being careful and stated that it should include that leg, everyone else is advocating acquisition of an oyster card as early as possible for use on the tube. It shouldn't be required until he takes his next journey after arriving at Marylebone.

Meant also to say be careful as the change at Elephant is not particularly intuitive as there are effectively 3 stations and you actually need to fully leave the national rail station to move onto one of the two underground lines (in this case the Bakerloo).

If the OP has any significant luggage (even if wheeled), I'd use LGW-London Bridge followed by Jubilee to Baker St and a very short walk to Marylebone.

n97 mini

coylemj wrote: »

The OP quoted a single price that he/she's paying for Gatwick to Marleybone (£12.70) via FCC to Elephant & Castle and then the Tube so I'm inclined to assume that it's an inclusive fare.

It's an all inclusive fare, booked and paid for!

Marcusm

n97 mini wrote: »

It's an all inclusive fare, booked and paid for!

That's good, FCC should be valid on a number of routes though so see what time of day you're travelling and see which one is easiest for your particular circumstances.

coylemj

MarkK wrote: »

If you are not going for a month or so, you can buy an Oyster card online and have it posted to you.
Saves queueing up when you get to a tube station in London.

http://visitorshop.tfl.gov.uk/oystercard/product/oyster-card.html

I wouldn't buy one of those 'Visitor' Oyster cards, the fact that they have a different name suggests to me that they could expire. If the OP arrives at a tube station during an off-peak time of the day it should be easy to buy one at a ticket desk or from one of the machines.

MarkK

coylemj wrote: »

I wouldn't buy one of those 'Visitor' Oyster cards, the fact that they have a different name suggests to me that they could expire. If the OP arrives at a tube station during an off-peak time of the day it should be easy to buy one at a ticket desk or from one of the machines.

They don't expire. They are the same as the ones you get in the tube stations.

bk

MarkK wrote: »

They don't expire. They are the same as the ones you get in the tube stations.

Not true, there are a number of differences:

http://golondon.about.com/od/londontransport/f/whichoystercard.htm

The standard (non visitor) Oyster card is better.

MarkK

bk wrote: »

Not true, there are a number of differences:

http://golondon.about.com/od/londontransport/f/whichoystercard.htm

The standard (non visitor) Oyster card is better.

That article is out of date. It says "The Visitor Oyster card costs £2 plus it can only be credited with a minimum of £10" those sort of Oysters are no longer issued.
The article says "If you have time, it may be best to order your Oystercard from the TfL online shop: ". which is what I was recommending.

MarkK

MarkK wrote: »

That article is out of date. It says "The Visitor Oyster card costs £2 plus it can only be credited with a minimum of £10" those sort of Oysters are no longer issued.
The article says "If you have time, it may be best to order your Oystercard from the TfL online shop: ". which is what I was recommending.

I ordered a couple of those earlier in the year from the Tfl online shop, and what I got back was a couple of standard oyster cards with the £30 pe-loaded on each that I had asked for. Was handy for me, especially as I was in a hurry when I arrived.

Vic_08

n97 mini wrote: »

It's an all inclusive fare, booked and paid for!

That is unfortunate as it is not the cheapest or best ticket available and as an off-peak walkup fare there is no advantage to buying in advance either. That is unless you used the heavily advertised thetrainline.com website where you will have also been charged a booking fee that train company websites or train station ticket offices and machines do not charge.

A Gatwick Airport Off Peak Day Travelcard route FCC is £12.50.

This ticket is essentialy an off peak day return from Gatwick to London AND a Zone 1 - 6 off peak travelcard valid on all Underground, Rail, DLR, and Tram services in Zones 1-6 and all Londonj Buses for one day.



While the advice given above about Oyster Pay-as-you-go is correct for travel exclusively inside Greater London it can be bad advice when starting or finishing outside London where a combined return+travelcard paper ticket as above is often the best value.

Oyster is by and large a good product but in some cases using paper travelcards can be a better option, particularly for those unfamiliar with the system and making multiple journeys across modes. While the general rule that oyster will cap at the rate for the cheapest travelcard for journeys made is correct there are instances where people do get charged more. This is down to people forgetting to touch out or validate oyster at locations where it is possible to exit the system or change modes without encountering a barrier. The system sees an unfinished journey and applies the maximum fare to it when in reality the user has just failed to touch out/transfer. Sometimes less technology can be beneficial.

coylemj

Vic_08 wrote: »

While the general rule that oyster will cap at the rate for the cheapest travelcard for journeys made is correct there are instances where people do get charged more. This is down to people forgetting to touch out or validate oyster at locations where it is possible to exit the system or change modes without encountering a barrier. The system sees an unfinished journey and applies the maximum fare to it when in reality the user has just failed to touch out/transfer. Sometimes less technology can be beneficial.

The same applies to the Irish Rail smartcard and the Dart here in Dublin. If you travel from Dun Laoghaire to Lansdowne Road and don't tag out, you'll pay the fare to Malahide.

If you don't mind me saying so, that is a Luddite attitude. The possibility of being penalised for not using the technology in the way it was intended is not a valid excuse to not use it.

Yes 'it is possible to exit the system or change modes without encountering a barrier', especially on trains coming back from major events such as the last match in Wimbledon but so many people in London use the Oyster card that it's virtually impossible to miss a barrier with the Oyster sensor and the vast majority of commuters exiting the station ahead of you will tag out even if the barriers are open so it's not hard to see where to tag out.

Marcusm

coylemj wrote: »

The same applies to the Irish Rail smartcard and the Dart here in Dublin. If you travel from Dun Laoghaire to Lansdowne Road and don't tag out, you'll pay the fare to Malahide.

If you don't mind me saying so, that is a Luddite attitude. The possibility of being penalised for not using the technology in the way it was intended is not a valid excuse to not use it.

Yes 'it is possible to exit the system or change modes without encountering a barrier', especially on trains coming back from major events such as the last match in Wimbledon but so many people in London use the Oyster card that it's virtually impossible to miss a barrier with the Oyster sensor and the vast majority of commuters exiting the station ahead of you will tag out even if the barriers are open so it's not hard to see where to tag out.

Should I assume you haven't used the DLR much?

coylemj

Marcusm wrote: »

Should I assume you haven't used the DLR much?

What's the deal with the DLR?

Marcusm

coylemj wrote: »

What's the deal with the DLR?

There are no barriers (just like no drivers) so you have to seek out the ticket pad. Lots of people forget and lots of ticket checkers. You also have to fi d it when you leave and in some places (eg middle of Canary Wharf shopping centre) it's easy to miss and/or forget.

There are other places where you can interchange between underground and overground trains without ticket barriers or where you need to click on to avoid paying the zone 1 premium.

Not always easy, not always intuitive.

coylemj

Surely all you have to do is follow the locals to the Oyster sensor? You can't be the only person alighting from a train with an Oyster card.

The large yellow disc is usually pretty easy to find though I don't think I've ever been on the DLR so I'll take your word for it.

Marcusm

coylemj wrote: »

Surely all you have to do is follow the locals to the Oyster sensor? You can't be the only person alighting from a train with an Oyster card.

The large yellow disc is usually pretty easy to find though I don't think I've ever been on the DLR so I'll take your word for it.

Most of the locals on the DLR will either be chancing their arm for a free ride or will have a travelcard attached to the Oyster which they won't tag on and off!! Only a small minority will tag on and off so if you're not thinking, it's easy to miss. Sometimes the large yellow discs can be in hard to see places! More penalty fares that way (or is that cynical). Fail to tag off and it's a £10 std deduction from your Oyster.

Vic_08

coylemj wrote: »

The same applies to the Irish Rail smartcard and the Dart here in Dublin. If you travel from Dun Laoghaire to Lansdowne Road and don't tag out, you'll pay the fare to Malahide.

There is little comparison between that and the TfL network where a huge % of journeys involve changes and travel through different zones where there are numerous routes that can be taken that can effect the charge for a particular trip.

If you don't mind me saying so, that is a Luddite attitude. The possibility of being penalised for not using the technology in the way it was intended is not a valid excuse to not use it..[/QUOTE]

Actually I do mind you saying so but it does remind me why I rarely bother with this board anymore, if you say anything that impinges on someone elses worldview you can expect a snide retort in order to try to invalidate what was said without actually adressing the point made.

coylemj wrote: »

Yes 'it is possible to exit the system or change modes without encountering a barrier', especially on trains coming back from major events such as the last match in Wimbledon but so many people in London use the Oyster card that it's virtually impossible to miss a barrier with the Oyster sensor and the vast majority of commuters exiting the station ahead of you will tag out even if the barriers are open so it's not hard to see where to tag out.

It is not the case that everyone uses oyster and of those that do many use different products loaded onto the card that do not have to be validated in the same way as PAYG.

coylemj wrote: »

Correct, I have never used the DLR. Was there the week before last and used the tube for four days with my Oyster card. What's the deal with the DLR?

Most DLR stations are open, no barriers just validators. Interchange stations that contain different modes are a common source of overcharges as people are not always aware where they should validate. some interchanges (such as most of the mainline terminus stations) have barriers on exit from National Rail and on entrance to LU but that is not universal, some are open for NR and barriered for LU and some (such as Stratford) allow free access between multiple modes.

Unclosed journeys are just one example of unintended overcharges, not completing journeys in the alloted time is another as are journeys made by one route but charged by another because of no intermediate validation and.

Occasions where oyster is being part used for a journey to somewhere outside London alogside another ticket can also cause some issues, if a through train is being used Oyster PAYG can require leaving the train to tag off and re-enter with the second ticket, using a paper travelcard instead removes this.

Disruptions to normal service patterns can also throw up situations where unwary PAYG users are overcharged.

As I originally said Oyster is a good system but it is not universally the best for all situations. Other tickets types still exist and are widely used for a reason.

n97 mini

Vic_08 wrote: »

That is unfortunate as it is not the cheapest or best ticket available and as an off-peak walkup fare there is no advantage to buying in advance either. That is unless you used the heavily advertised thetrainline.com website where you will have also been charged a booking fee that train company websites or train station ticket offices and machines do not charge.

A Gatwick Airport Off Peak Day Travelcard route FCC is £12.50.

You're saying I paid 20p too much? That's not so bad. My flight arrives in the evening time so I don't expect to be doing any travelling once I get in from the airport. But good to know, nonetheless.

bk

And some people want a zonal system like London introduced here in Dublin!!

As you can see from the above posts, zonal systems can have their own complications.

That is why I've really come around to the Amsterdam system, you pay for exactly the distance you travel.

coylemj

Vic_08 wrote: »

While the general rule that oyster will cap at the rate for the cheapest travelcard for journeys made is correct there are instances where people do get charged more. This is down to people forgetting to touch out or validate oyster at locations where it is possible to exit the system or change modes without encountering a barrier. The system sees an unfinished journey and applies the maximum fare to it when in reality the user has just failed to touch out/transfer. Sometimes less technology can be beneficial.

coylemj wrote: »

The same applies to the Irish Rail smartcard and the Dart here in Dublin. If you travel from Dun Laoghaire to Lansdowne Road and don't tag out, you'll pay the fare to Malahide.

Vic_08 wrote: »

There is little comparison between that and the TfL network where a huge % of journeys involve changes and travel through different zones where there are numerous routes that can be taken that can effect the charge for a particular trip.

You board at station A and tag on, you alight at station B and tag off, same as the Dart system. I agree that the charging system is different but surely the procedure is the same for each journey on either system?

Terrontress

Marcusm wrote: »

coylemj wrote: »

The OP quoted a single price that he's paying for Gatwick to Marleybone (£12.70) via FCC to Elephant & Castle and then the Tube so I'm inclined to assume that it's an inclusive fare.

That's why I suggested being careful and stated that it should include that leg, everyone else is advocating acquisition of an oyster card as early as possible for use on the tube. It shouldn't be required until he takes his next journey after arriving at Marylebone.

Meant also to say be careful as the change at Elephant is not particularly intuitive as there are effectively 3 stations and you actually need to fully leave the national rail station to move onto one of the two underground lines (in this case the Bakerloo).

If the OP has any significant luggage (even if wheeled), I'd use LGW-London Bridge followed by Jubilee to Baker St and a very short walk to Marylebone.

This is good advice. For a start there are no lifts at Elephant, you have to go through the shopping centre and the tube station at the shopping centre is the Northern Line. The Bakerloo line is on the other side of the roundabout so you've got to negotiate the underpasses.

If you're not familiar with the area you might find it a little intimidating although I would have no qualms there at any time of the day or night.