Is Alcoholism a medical condition?

smokey32

Can anyone tell me is alcoholism classed as a medical condition in Ireland?

Corkgirl210

Yes, it is classified as a disease... read any aa literature and it explains it all

tony81

it could be, however it can also mask other conditions such as personality disorders, and even worsen them.

Also alcohol has such a major role in society it can be a thin line between someone who is very sociable and someone who has a serious problem.

They're my views, partly from my experience. I'm not a non-drinker but I definitely try to keep my drinking habits in check.

Sunnyisland

Alcoholism is definitely a serious medical condition in Ireland and is treated as such,Alcohol-related problems cost Ireland an estimated €3.7 billion in 2007: that’s a cost of €3,318 on each person paying income tax in Ireland,Treating alcohol-related injuries and diseases cost the healthcare system an estimated €1.2 billion - around 8.5% of the total annual healthcare budget.

Having said that there is a big difference in Alcoholism and having a drink.

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=is%20alcohoism%20a%20medical%20condition%20in%20ireland&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&ved=0CEYQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Falcoholireland.ie%2Falcohol-facts%2Falcohol-related-harm-facts-and-statistics%2F&ei=jFNEULf5CIK5hAfg34CICw&usg=AFQjCNEn1oVDsPp9pN60ks6_cuvE1xYXzQ

CruelCoin

Rayanne2010 wrote: »

Yes, it is classified as a disease... read any aa literature and it explains it all

An organisation which owes its existence to fighting the "scourge of alcoholism" is hardly likely to call it anything other than a disease.

I'd prefer some literature based on neutral objective research.

stoppress

I would say it is indeed a medical condition. Although some people who I have spoken to don't agree for their own reasons.

tony81

stoppress wrote: »

I would say it is indeed a medical condition. Although some people who I have spoken to don't agree for their own reasons.

And I'm sure you would say it is for your own reasons :rolleyes:

mathepac

smokey32 wrote: »

Can anyone tell me is alcoholism classed as a medical condition in Ireland?

Yes and internationally.

jclally

According to my GP, yes

stoppress

tony81 wrote: »

And I'm sure you would say it is for your own reasons :rolleyes:

eeemmmmm maybbeeee although I was not been smug in my comment. I just have the bad luck off meeting people who dont care much.

christmas2012

it is a disease

9959

Is it contagious?

KTRIC

Rayanne2010 wrote: »

Yes, it is classified as a disease... read any aa literature and it explains it all

Can I ask why ? Its not transmittable !! and doesn't cause infection.

mathepac

CruelCoin wrote: »

... I'd prefer some literature based on neutral objective research.

The World Health Organisation's ICD-10 gives clinical descriptions and diagnostic guidelines for professionals.

The American Psychiatric Association's DSM-IV-TR also gives diagnostic criteria.

9959

I know of someone who secretly gambled everything away, causing horrific trauma to his wife and children. He has since joined GA and is getting his life back together, after a fashion. He has now reestablished a relationship with his children (now young adults). Whenever they tentatively broach the subject of his deceitful past, he looks them straight in the eyes and declares: "I had a disease". How convenient! I'm wondering do alcoholics in similar circumstances use the "I had a disease line" too?

Anotherreg

9959 wrote: »

I know of someone who secretly gambled everything away, causing horrific trauma to his wife and children. He has since joined GA and is getting his life back together, after a fashion. He has now reestablished a relationship with his children (now young adults). Whenever they tentatively broach the subject of his deceitful past, he looks them straight in the eyes and declares: "I had a disease". How convenient! I'm wondering do alcoholics in similar circumstances use the "I had a disease line" too?

I've done plenty of stupid things under the influence of alcohol, but would, if asked, describe my issue with drink as a lack of self control, not a disease.

However alcoholism is recognised as a disease. I don't know whether gambling falls under the same category. Maybe that man has apologised for his behaviour enough in his own mind, and uses the "I had a disease" line as a method of closing down the conversation. Maybe his adult children don't feel that he has apologised or explained enough and are insulted by his current attitude. Either way, his use of the line is clearly causing resentment.

Most of the people on this section of the forum are guys (and girls I assume) like me, who have given up drink, or who are trying to give up drink, for their own good and for the good of their families. They are looking for, or providing support to each other in a fairly non judgemental way.

From reading a lot of the threads on this section of the site, being honest with yourself and others seems to be regarded as a very important tool in battling alcoholism. Maybe this guy, and his kids need to be more honest with one another. A lot of what I've written above is guesswork. I'm more than likely completely wrong in my "maybes".

9959

Thanks for a well thought-out and respectful reply.

Strawberry Fields

I think there is a huge difference between a disease and a disease of the mind.
If someone had arteriosclerosis or say diabetes and didn't take their insulin or took too much sugar and were then gone mental can they be held to account for their actions? The answer is no as they were temporarily gone in the head.

With alcohol or gambling where a reasonable person would tell you to stop you are no longer the master of your own mind and simply cannot.

I also agree with above post a lot of my woes were down to a complete lack of self control, I changed my mindset and taught myself better behaviour.

9959

And so, to answer the question posed in this 'thread heading',
'Is Alcoholism a medical condition?'
Yes......but that yes should never be used as an excuse for cheating, lying, stealing, abusing (physically or mentally) or behaving reprehensibly.
Sorted!

zero_nine

For me it was not a disease; it was persistent, voluntary & immoral conduct. People told me I had a disease but they were wrong- the only solution for voluntary drinking is voluntary abstinence.

mathepac

zero_nine wrote: »

... - the only solution for voluntary drinking is voluntary abstinence.

If this works for you, then that's fine. If their way works for them, then that's also fine. The trick is not to get involved in pointless and distracting arguments over methods and to concentrate on maintaining successful outcomes IMHO.

9959

mathepac wrote: »

If this works for you, then that's fine. If their way works for them, then that's also fine. The trick is not to get involved in pointless and distracting arguments over methods and to concentrate on maintaining successful outcomes IMHO.

Zero_nine's post may be contentious, but at least it's germane to the 'thread heading'. Also, IMHO it would be difficult to gainsay his final injunction: "the only solution for voluntary drinking is voluntary abstinence".
There are numurous threads on this forum encouraging people to - in your own words - "concentrate on maintaining successful outcomes" - this isn't one of them.
Not pickin' on you guv, honest, but your crisply written contributions to this thread coud be construed, or admittedly misconstrued, as a bit 'rigid'.
Also your reply to Zero_nine, gives a nod to the partially discredited 'I'm OK, You're OK' branch of 'Transactional Analysis'.
I do wish you well, I know you're a music lover, which might seem trivial to some but it's important to me.
Good luck to you!

Iwannahurl

"Medical condition" and "disease" are just labels, I reckon.

Is alcoholism an independent entity like, say, measles?

I don't think so, and I am a bit sceptical about the "disease" label as favoured by established bodies such as the AA.

The DSM-V, due out next year, may well include Alcoholism or some variant(s) thereon, but diagnosing something doesn't necessarily mean that it's a distinct disease entity. That's the trouble with Psychiatry, I suppose.

However, if the 12-Step disease model helps get some people sober, then it's a good thing for them. People with alcohol and drug dependence problems should have a range of treatment and support options available to them, IMO, within the bounds of reason of course.

johnwest288

How can I tell If im Infected :eek:
Starting to freak out now. I drink each weekend. How long before symptoms start to manifest and what are they?

Iwannahurl

johnwest288 wrote: »

How can I tell If im Infected :eek:
Starting to freak out now. I drink each weekend. How long before symptoms start to manifest and what are they?

http://www.patient.co.uk/doctor/CAGE-Questionnaire.htm

gallag

It's not a disease. It's a choise. Is smoking to much weed a disease? Or eating to much? Is any over indulgence a disease or just alcohol. It is a cruel addiction and a very serious thing but it is not a disease. Imagine sitting in a hospital ward with a real disease like cancer and someone beside you complaining about their disease as the choose to take another sip. The thing about a disease is you cannot choose not to have it.

sbsquarepants

I don't buy into the whole addiction as a disease mentality. Addiction to anything - be it alcohol, gambling, sex, crystal meth or whatever - is not a disease - it's a personality trait. Some people are glutons plain and simple - some people eat too much, some party too much, some gamble too much and so on. They do not have a disease - they just have poor self control.

gallag

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I don't buy into the whole addiction as a disease mentality. Addiction to anything - be it alcohol, gambling, sex, crystal meth or whatever - is not a disease - it's a personality trait. Some people are glutons plain and simple - some people eat too much, some party too much, some gamble too much and so on. They do not have a disease - they just have poor self control.

I agree, it should be simple, if you have the choise to have it or not then it is not a disease. I don't want to play down the seriousness of alcohol abuse though, terrible thing, just not a disease.

Iwannahurl

gallag wrote: »

It's not a disease. It's a choise. Is smoking to much weed a disease? Or eating to much? Is any over indulgence a disease or just alcohol. It is a cruel addiction and a very serious thing but it is not a disease. Imagine sitting in a hospital ward with a real disease like cancer and someone beside you complaining about their disease as the choose to take another sip. The thing about a disease is you cannot choose not to have it.

Hmmm, not sure things are that clear cut. Many cancers are preventable, though not 100% so presumably. You could say the same thing about heart disease, and that is substantially preventable.

Alcohol is a psychoactive substance with addictive properties, and our society is saturated in it. Some people may even have given alcohol (certainly exposed to the enthusiastic drinking of it) at an early age.

gallag

Iwannahurl wrote: »

gallag wrote: »

It's not a disease. It's a choise. Is smoking to much weed a disease? Or eating to much? Is any over indulgence a disease or just alcohol. It is a cruel addiction and a very serious thing but it is not a disease. Imagine sitting in a hospital ward with a real disease like cancer and someone beside you complaining about their disease as the choose to take another sip. The thing about a disease is you cannot choose not to have it.

Hmmm, not sure things are that clear cut. Many cancers are preventable, though not 100% so presumably. You could say the same thing about heart disease, and that is substantially preventable.

Alcohol is a psychoactive substance with addictive properties, and our society is saturated in it. Some people may even have given alcohol (certainly exposed to the enthusiastic drinking of it) at an early age.

It is clear cut though, if someone smokes and gets lung cancer they have gave themselves a disease, the smoking was not a disease, same as if someone drinks and gets liver damage they got a disease through drinking, the actual drinking was not a disease, though it could lead to disease. It is an addiction, not a disease.

mathepac

gallag wrote: »

... It is an addiction, not a disease.

But addiction / alcoholism / chemical dependency / other term is classified as a disease / disorder / illness by medical and psychiatric specialists. It is recognised as a primary illness, that means it is not a consequence or result of another illness or condition. It also means that drinking doesn't cause alcoholism, the drinking is an outward sign or symptom of the condition.

Where medical and holistic opinions diverge a lot of the time is in terms of treatment. The medics, generally, see alcoholism as a disease of the mind, a mental illness, that has both mental and physical consequences, while the holistic community tend to view alcoholism as a disease of the body, mind and spirit.

Where they both tend to agree is what needs to be done after the body and mind have begun to recover and that is to focus on the spiritual recovery, so medics tend not to have problems referring clients to AA or 12-step based treatment centres.

HTH

Iwannahurl

mathepac wrote: »

But addiction / alcoholism / chemical dependency / other term is classified as a disease / disorder / illness by medical and psychiatric specialists. It is recognised as a primary illness, that means it is not a consequence or result of another illness or condition. It also means that drinking doesn't cause alcoholism, the drinking is an outward sign or symptom of the condition.

Where medical and holistic opinions diverge a lot of the time is in terms of treatment. The medics, generally, see alcoholism as a disease of the mind, a mental illness, that has both mental and physical consequences, while the holistic community tend to view alcoholism as a disease of the body, mind and spirit.

Where they both tend to agree is what needs to be done after the body and mind have begun to recover and that is to focus on the spiritual recovery, so medics tend not to have problems referring clients to AA or 12-step based treatment centres.

HTH

I would argue that there is a difference between a disease and a diagnostic category.

In terms of disease/disorder classification systems based on the Medical Model, such as the Diagnostic & Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), a key factor is whether and how practitioners are reimbursed by health insurers.

Different labels come and go (the DSM5 is a lot different from its early predecessors, as the story of an infamous APA vote confirms), but people and their 'problems of living' are pretty much the same. Here's the British Psychological Society's general view on the forthcoming DSM5:

The putative diagnoses presented in DSM-V are clearly based largely on social norms, with 'symptoms' that all rely on subjective judgements, with little confirmatory physical 'signs' or evidence of biological causation. The criteria are not value-free, but rather reflect current normative social expectations. Many researchers have pointed out that psychiatric diagnoses are plagued by problems of reliability, validity, prognostic value, and co-morbidity.

On the subject of the revised diagnosed category "Substance Use and Addictive Disorders" the BPS says:

We are concerned that clients and the general public are negatively affected by the continued and continuous medicalisation of their natural and normal responses to their experiences; responses which undoubtedly have distressing consequences which demand helping responses, but which do not reflect illnesses so much as normal individual variation.

We believe that classifying these problems as ‘illnesses’ misses the relational context of problems and the undeniable social causation of many such problems. For psychologists, our well-being and mental health stem from our frameworks of understanding of the world, frameworks which are themselves the product of the experiences and learning through our lives.

We note with concern the concept of ‘Gambling Disorder’. Gambling is a problem, and it is a social phenomenon and issue that requires study and response. However, we feel it is conceptually wrong to regard this as an illness with symptoms. We recognise that here – as in other ‘disorders’ – no concept of organic pathology is necessarily implied (DSM-V is, we recognise, intended to be a useful list of ‘disorders’), but we also are aware that inclusion in such a list has implications, and we strongly feel that an alternative non-medical conceptualisation is called for.

One implication of the revised Substance Use and Addictive Disorders category, reportedly, is that medical practitioners will find it easier to be reimbursed by insurers for dealing with drug and alcohol problems. That could be a good thing, if it encourages early intervention, counselling etc.

However, others see potential dangers in what you could call diagnostic inflation. Here's a Time article on the potential implications of medical labels: http://healthland.time.com/2012/05/14/dsm-5-could-mean-40-of-college-students-are-alcoholics/

areyawell

Yes obviously, just like gambling addiction is a disease.

9959

areyawell wrote: »

Yes obviously, just like gambling addiction is a disease.

Sex addiction, Shopping addiction, Chocolate addiction, addiction to counselling, perhaps they're all diseases too?
What about excessive narcissism leading to Plastic surgery compulsion, Jordan et al.
Kleptomania, Pyromania.
An inability to drag yourself away from the PlayStation or Xbox.
Posting far too often on boards.ie (guilty)!
Perhaps we should throw all the above in with Leprosy and Leukemia, then we'd all have a disease.
Better still, we could all assuage our guilt.

Iwannahurl

9959 wrote: »

Posting far too often on boards.ie (guilty)!
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Is Boards addiction reimbursable I wonder?

areyawell

9959 wrote: »

Sex addiction, Shopping addiction, Chocolate addiction, addiction to counselling, perhaps they're all diseases too?
What about excessive narcissism leading to Plastic surgery compulsion, Jordan et al.
Kleptomania, Pyromania.
An inability to drag yourself away from the PlayStation or Xbox.
Posting far too often on boards.ie (guilty)!
Perhaps we should throw all the above in with Leprosy and Leukemia, then we'd all have a disease.
Better still, we could all assuage our guilt.

Yes okay, I see where your from coming from. But alcohol affects health so is it a disease?

9959

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Is Boards addiction reimbursable I wonder?

With the amount you've posted, they'll have to give you a 'haircut'!