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Is Alcoholism a medical condition?

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  • 09-07-2012 7:22pm
    #1
    smokey32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 82 ✭✭


    Can anyone tell me is alcoholism classed as a medical condition in Ireland?


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    #2
    Corkgirl210
    Closed Accounts Posts: 329 ✭✭Corkgirl210


    Yes, it is classified as a disease... read any aa literature and it explains it all


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    #3
    tony81
    Closed Accounts Posts: 595 ✭✭✭tony81


    it could be, however it can also mask other conditions such as personality disorders, and even worsen them.

    Also alcohol has such a major role in society it can be a thin line between someone who is very sociable and someone who has a serious problem.

    They're my views, partly from my experience. I'm not a non-drinker but I definitely try to keep my drinking habits in check.


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    #4
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    Alcoholism is definitely a serious medical condition in Ireland and is treated as such,Alcohol-related problems cost Ireland an estimated €3.7 billion in 2007: that’s a cost of €3,318 on each person paying income tax in Ireland,Treating alcohol-related injuries and diseases cost the healthcare system an estimated €1.2 billion - around 8.5% of the total annual healthcare budget.

    Having said that there is a big difference in Alcoholism and having a drink.

    http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=is%20alcohoism%20a%20medical%20condition%20in%20ireland&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&ved=0CEYQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Falcoholireland.ie%2Falcohol-facts%2Falcohol-related-harm-facts-and-statistics%2F&ei=jFNEULf5CIK5hAfg34CICw&usg=AFQjCNEn1oVDsPp9pN60ks6_cuvE1xYXzQ


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    #5
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    Rayanne2010 wrote: »
    Yes, it is classified as a disease... read any aa literature and it explains it all

    An organisation which owes its existence to fighting the "scourge of alcoholism" is hardly likely to call it anything other than a disease.

    I'd prefer some literature based on neutral objective research.


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    #6
    stoppress
    Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭stoppress


    I would say it is indeed a medical condition. Although some people who I have spoken to don't agree for their own reasons.


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    #7
    tony81
    Closed Accounts Posts: 595 ✭✭✭tony81


    stoppress wrote: »
    I would say it is indeed a medical condition. Although some people who I have spoken to don't agree for their own reasons.

    And I'm sure you would say it is for your own reasons :rolleyes:


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    #8
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    smokey32 wrote: »
    Can anyone tell me is alcoholism classed as a medical condition in Ireland?
    Yes and internationally.


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    #9
    jclally
    Closed Accounts Posts: 112 ✭✭jclally


    According to my GP, yes


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    #10
    stoppress
    Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭stoppress


    tony81 wrote: »
    And I'm sure you would say it is for your own reasons :rolleyes:
    eeemmmmm maybbeeee although I was not been smug in my comment. I just have the bad luck off meeting people who dont care much.


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    #11
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    it is a disease


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    #12
    9959
    Registered Users Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭9959


    Is it contagious?


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    #13
    KTRIC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭KTRIC


    Rayanne2010 wrote: »
    Yes, it is classified as a disease... read any aa literature and it explains it all

    Can I ask why ? Its not transmittable !! and doesn't cause infection.


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    #14
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    ... I'd prefer some literature based on neutral objective research.
    The World Health Organisation's ICD-10 gives clinical descriptions and diagnostic guidelines for professionals.

    The American Psychiatric Association's DSM-IV-TR also gives diagnostic criteria.


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    #15
    9959
    Registered Users Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭9959


    I know of someone who secretly gambled everything away, causing horrific trauma to his wife and children. He has since joined GA and is getting his life back together, after a fashion. He has now reestablished a relationship with his children (now young adults). Whenever they tentatively broach the subject of his deceitful past, he looks them straight in the eyes and declares: "I had a disease". How convenient! I'm wondering do alcoholics in similar circumstances use the "I had a disease line" too?


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    #16
    Anotherreg
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭Anotherreg


    9959 wrote: »
    I know of someone who secretly gambled everything away, causing horrific trauma to his wife and children. He has since joined GA and is getting his life back together, after a fashion. He has now reestablished a relationship with his children (now young adults). Whenever they tentatively broach the subject of his deceitful past, he looks them straight in the eyes and declares: "I had a disease". How convenient! I'm wondering do alcoholics in similar circumstances use the "I had a disease line" too?

    I've done plenty of stupid things under the influence of alcohol, but would, if asked, describe my issue with drink as a lack of self control, not a disease.

    However alcoholism is recognised as a disease. I don't know whether gambling falls under the same category. Maybe that man has apologised for his behaviour enough in his own mind, and uses the "I had a disease" line as a method of closing down the conversation. Maybe his adult children don't feel that he has apologised or explained enough and are insulted by his current attitude. Either way, his use of the line is clearly causing resentment.

    Most of the people on this section of the forum are guys (and girls I assume) like me, who have given up drink, or who are trying to give up drink, for their own good and for the good of their families. They are looking for, or providing support to each other in a fairly non judgemental way.

    From reading a lot of the threads on this section of the site, being honest with yourself and others seems to be regarded as a very important tool in battling alcoholism. Maybe this guy, and his kids need to be more honest with one another. A lot of what I've written above is guesswork. I'm more than likely completely wrong in my "maybes".


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    #17
    9959
    Registered Users Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭9959


    Thanks for a well thought-out and respectful reply.


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    #18
    Strawberry Fields
    Closed Accounts Posts: 611 ✭✭✭Strawberry Fields


    I think there is a huge difference between a disease and a disease of the mind.
    If someone had arteriosclerosis or say diabetes and didn't take their insulin or took too much sugar and were then gone mental can they be held to account for their actions? The answer is no as they were temporarily gone in the head.

    With alcohol or gambling where a reasonable person would tell you to stop you are no longer the master of your own mind and simply cannot.

    I also agree with above post a lot of my woes were down to a complete lack of self control, I changed my mindset and taught myself better behaviour.


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    #19
    9959
    Registered Users Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭9959


    And so, to answer the question posed in this 'thread heading',
    'Is Alcoholism a medical condition?'
    Yes......but that yes should never be used as an excuse for cheating, lying, stealing, abusing (physically or mentally) or behaving reprehensibly.
    Sorted!


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    #20
    zero_nine
    Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭zero_nine


    For me it was not a disease; it was persistent, voluntary & immoral conduct. People told me I had a disease but they were wrong- the only solution for voluntary drinking is voluntary abstinence.


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    #21
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    zero_nine wrote: »
    ... - the only solution for voluntary drinking is voluntary abstinence.
    If this works for you, then that's fine. If their way works for them, then that's also fine. The trick is not to get involved in pointless and distracting arguments over methods and to concentrate on maintaining successful outcomes IMHO.


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    #22
    9959
    Registered Users Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭9959


    mathepac wrote: »
    If this works for you, then that's fine. If their way works for them, then that's also fine. The trick is not to get involved in pointless and distracting arguments over methods and to concentrate on maintaining successful outcomes IMHO.

    Zero_nine's post may be contentious, but at least it's germane to the 'thread heading'. Also, IMHO it would be difficult to gainsay his final injunction: "the only solution for voluntary drinking is voluntary abstinence".
    There are numurous threads on this forum encouraging people to - in your own words - "concentrate on maintaining successful outcomes" - this isn't one of them.
    Not pickin' on you guv, honest, but your crisply written contributions to this thread coud be construed, or admittedly misconstrued, as a bit 'rigid'.
    Also your reply to Zero_nine, gives a nod to the partially discredited 'I'm OK, You're OK' branch of 'Transactional Analysis'.
    I do wish you well, I know you're a music lover, which might seem trivial to some but it's important to me.
    Good luck to you!


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    #23
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    "Medical condition" and "disease" are just labels, I reckon.

    Is alcoholism an independent entity like, say, measles?

    I don't think so, and I am a bit sceptical about the "disease" label as favoured by established bodies such as the AA.

    The DSM-V, due out next year, may well include Alcoholism or some variant(s) thereon, but diagnosing something doesn't necessarily mean that it's a distinct disease entity. That's the trouble with Psychiatry, I suppose.

    However, if the 12-Step disease model helps get some people sober, then it's a good thing for them. People with alcohol and drug dependence problems should have a range of treatment and support options available to them, IMO, within the bounds of reason of course.


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    #24
    johnwest288
    Registered Users Posts: 665 ✭✭✭johnwest288


    How can I tell If im Infected :eek:
    Starting to freak out now. I drink each weekend. How long before symptoms start to manifest and what are they?:confused:


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    #25
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    johnwest288 wrote: »
    How can I tell If im Infected :eek:
    Starting to freak out now. I drink each weekend. How long before symptoms start to manifest and what are they?:confused:




    http://www.patient.co.uk/doctor/CAGE-Questionnaire.htm


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    #26
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    It's not a disease. It's a choise. Is smoking to much weed a disease? Or eating to much? Is any over indulgence a disease or just alcohol. It is a cruel addiction and a very serious thing but it is not a disease. Imagine sitting in a hospital ward with a real disease like cancer and someone beside you complaining about their disease as the choose to take another sip. The thing about a disease is you cannot choose not to have it.


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    #27
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    I don't buy into the whole addiction as a disease mentality. Addiction to anything - be it alcohol, gambling, sex, crystal meth or whatever - is not a disease - it's a personality trait. Some people are glutons plain and simple - some people eat too much, some party too much, some gamble too much and so on. They do not have a disease - they just have poor self control.


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    #28
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    I don't buy into the whole addiction as a disease mentality. Addiction to anything - be it alcohol, gambling, sex, crystal meth or whatever - is not a disease - it's a personality trait. Some people are glutons plain and simple - some people eat too much, some party too much, some gamble too much and so on. They do not have a disease - they just have poor self control.
    I agree, it should be simple, if you have the choise to have it or not then it is not a disease. I don't want to play down the seriousness of alcohol abuse though, terrible thing, just not a disease.


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    #29
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    gallag wrote: »
    It's not a disease. It's a choise. Is smoking to much weed a disease? Or eating to much? Is any over indulgence a disease or just alcohol. It is a cruel addiction and a very serious thing but it is not a disease. Imagine sitting in a hospital ward with a real disease like cancer and someone beside you complaining about their disease as the choose to take another sip. The thing about a disease is you cannot choose not to have it.




    Hmmm, not sure things are that clear cut. Many cancers are preventable, though not 100% so presumably. You could say the same thing about heart disease, and that is substantially preventable.

    Alcohol is a psychoactive substance with addictive properties, and our society is saturated in it. Some people may even have given alcohol (certainly exposed to the enthusiastic drinking of it) at an early age.


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    #30
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    gallag wrote: »
    It's not a disease. It's a choise. Is smoking to much weed a disease? Or eating to much? Is any over indulgence a disease or just alcohol. It is a cruel addiction and a very serious thing but it is not a disease. Imagine sitting in a hospital ward with a real disease like cancer and someone beside you complaining about their disease as the choose to take another sip. The thing about a disease is you cannot choose not to have it.




    Hmmm, not sure things are that clear cut. Many cancers are preventable, though not 100% so presumably. You could say the same thing about heart disease, and that is substantially preventable.

    Alcohol is a psychoactive substance with addictive properties, and our society is saturated in it. Some people may even have given alcohol (certainly exposed to the enthusiastic drinking of it) at an early age.
    It is clear cut though, if someone smokes and gets lung cancer they have gave themselves a disease, the smoking was not a disease, same as if someone drinks and gets liver damage they got a disease through drinking, the actual drinking was not a disease, though it could lead to disease. It is an addiction, not a disease.


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    #31
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    gallag wrote: »
    ... It is an addiction, not a disease.
    But addiction / alcoholism / chemical dependency / other term is classified as a disease / disorder / illness by medical and psychiatric specialists. It is recognised as a primary illness, that means it is not a consequence or result of another illness or condition. It also means that drinking doesn't cause alcoholism, the drinking is an outward sign or symptom of the condition.

    Where medical and holistic opinions diverge a lot of the time is in terms of treatment. The medics, generally, see alcoholism as a disease of the mind, a mental illness, that has both mental and physical consequences, while the holistic community tend to view alcoholism as a disease of the body, mind and spirit.

    Where they both tend to agree is what needs to be done after the body and mind have begun to recover and that is to focus on the spiritual recovery, so medics tend not to have problems referring clients to AA or 12-step based treatment centres.

    HTH


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