Normal number of lessons?

Toffypop

Hi all,

I've been learning to drive for a few months now and have been taking two hour lessons. I've noticed however that my driving instructor has been putting the two houes done down in my log book as one lesson, I'm now in a position where I've done 16 hours of lessons but it's logged as 8. Is that normal?
He's also told me that he's nothing else to teach me so the next few hours will just be me driving around but looking on boards here I've only reversed once, same with 3 point turn, reversong around corners etc.
I'm wondering if not doing these things and the two hours is each time is standard?

Thanks

Pomplamousse

I'm not 100% sure about whether a 2 hour lesson should be counted as 1 EDT lesson or 2. But regarding the content of each lesson, I really think you should be practicing reversing around the corner, turn-abouts and hill starts at least once in each lesson. These are all things which you will definitely be tested on in your driving test. I recently passed my driving test and my instructor got me to practice these things in every single lesson and gave me plenty of pointers on how to do them correctly, I really can't understand why your instructor isn't doing the same.

On a side note, I also would highly recommend you doing just 1 hour lessons at a time rather than 2. My instructor said apart from the first lesson (which involves a lot of talking), he never gives 2 hour lessons as he feels like that amount of time spent in the car becomes too stressful for the person learning.

Toffypop

Thanks Pamplamousse, there's a few things I've been a bit concerned about. My driving instructor has never shown me under the bonnot and I understand that's part of the test? I had to ask to be shown how to reverse and we've only done that once, the same with three point turns and I've now had 16 hours of lessons but have never reversed around a corner.
I was thinking about changing instructors but in my log book he's filled out every page and signed it with comments - this is for lessons I haven't haad yet. All he needs to do is stamp it when we go out then but I think this prohibits me from going anywhere else for the next 4 as it's all filled out with his car number, RSA number etc. I pay for lessons by the hour, a block of lessons hasn't been booked/paid for.
Is this allowed does anyone know?

Pomplamousse

Tbh your instructor sounds like a bit of a scam artist to me. 16 hours of lessons and he's never once tried to teach you how to reverse around a corner

I don't know much about the EDT lessons and log book thing as I had my provisional for a few years before I started learning so it didn't affect me. So I'm not sure if the fact that he's filled up every page on your book will make it difficult to change instructors. Hopefully someone else can help you out with that question. But what I will say is that if at all possible, I would definitely try to change instructors. You need someone who will regularly get you to practice your turn abouts and reversing around the corner.

I wouldn't worry too much about not having been shown under the bonnet yet. It's quite simple and wasn't something I was shown until a couple of weeks before my test (think my instructor just went through it with me twice). Depending on where you're based I can PM you the details of the instructor I used if you decide to change:)

goat2

learning to drive in two hours stints is too much, because you tire and can only take in so much on any lesson no matter how long it is, i would take it in one hour stents and you find you do much better that way,
learning for two hours, after about an hour you would be zoning out and in, and get latergic, also you can only take so much on in one day,
also if you find it hard to understand the instructor, change, i found it good to go for change when i became unhappy with instructor, take on only one hour shifts, it is the same amount you will take in,

Toffypop

Thanks Pomplamouss and goat2, I don't know anyone else learning to drive and I only found out about reversing around corners from a thread some-one else had posted on boards!
Hopefully some-one will know if you can change instructors after they've filled out all your log book, I'd love to change. I had to cancel a lesson last week with two hours notice and he went nuts and demanded I pay for it this week. I can understand his point in that if I cancel then he doesn't get paid but it was a one off. I'll be forking out €80 this week for a two hour lesson I couldn't take on top of the €40 per hour he charges anyway. Again I'm assuming you have to pay for lessons where you cancel?
Pamplamouss I'm in Dublin City Centre, if you could pm me the details of your instructor it'd be great

kate.m

I'm fairy sure on the RSA website it says EDT = 12 one hour lessons.


I have friends who have only had to do 12 one hour lessons anyway.
Is it possible he's trying to get you to pay twice the amount you have to?

Toffypop

Hi Kate.m, yeah I've a horrible feeling that's what's happened and I'm stuck with him because he pre-filled my log out

goat2

if you are not happy with the service he is giving you, and i do think he should have practiced the u turn and reversing a bit more if you felt that you needed it more,
you dont have to do anything you dont want to,
i changed driver instructors 3 times for one of my daughters, and boy did the third instructor do a great job, he was brilliant,
not all instructors are the same, they are all different, and just change to someone that will suit you,
i dont care how much pen he put to paper on book, it is you who is customer, go elsewhere, and you owe him nothing,
but please please, do it in one hours stints. brain can obsorbe better on short bursts, it only tires out after an hour of driving around so long and stops taking it all in.

ADIDriving

Toffypop wrote: »

Hi Kate.m, yeah I've a horrible feeling that's what's happened and I'm stuck with him because he pre-filled my log out

You are not stuck with him. Get a different instructor. This one sounds dodgy. Did he tell you that his signing of the logbook tied you to him?
Although one EDT lesson can last more then one hour, he should be getting you to agree with it being two. Turn abouts and reverses are in EDT five. You should have done several of them. Under the bonnet does not really feature in the EDT. The last few lessons are quiet empty. It allows for practice and refinement.
If you are not happy, try someone else.

J_R

hI,

First from What does EDT involve?

What does EDT involve?

EDT is a course of 12 one-hour lessons. These lessons are designed to cover certain critical driving skills and improve your practical driving skills.

Second. go to How to sign up for My EDT

Sign in and check what lessons he has uploaded.

You can change instructor no problem or at least it should not be a problem. Contact the RSA if any arise.

Regarding the two hour lessons, agree fully with the previous posters. Only one that benefits is the driving instructor. Your brain gets saturated/overloaded after forty to fifty minutes. Of course if the instructor puts little or no pressure on his pupil then you can carry on for hours.

He should have signed at the end of each hour.

Did you sign a contract or did he even inform you that you would incur a penalty if you cancelled a lesson. ?

Toffypop

thanks to everyone who replied

JR i was never told of a cancellation fee, always "if you need to cancel just let me know" but he got very annoyed when I did cancel.
I rang the RSA and have been told that I can change instructors even though my book was filled out so I'll be doing that, I've a feeling I've been conned enough at this stage.

J_R

Toffypop wrote: »

thanks to everyone who replied

JR i was never told of a cancellation fee, always "if you need to cancel just let me know" but he got very annoyed when I did cancel.
I rang the RSA and have been told that I can change instructors even though my book was filled out so I'll be doing that, I've a feeling I've been conned enough at this stage.

So, just walk away.

Redtop

I'm frankly a bit shocked that this instructor seems to have done so little in such a long time. I've started to give my own daughter lessons before handing over to a qualified instructor. I've done about 5 hours with her over 3 lessons and she has already Reversed, done 3 Point Turns and Hill Starts many times in an industrial estate, away from traffic. I also plan on showing her under the bonnet and covering the basics of how the car actually works and how to change a tyre .....and this is Before handing her over to a qualified instructor who may, I suspect correct a few of my bad habits.

gubbie

I'd definitely try another instructor. Ring another up, discuss the situation with him and tell him you're not happy. Don't mention who your old instructor is though - they all seemed to know each other in Cork.

Cathalog

Sounds a little bit like the "you need 3 hours of lessons before starting the EDT" bs that my friend got recently. The RSA need to sort this out. Having to pay for 12 lessons is difficult enough - but the fact that its completely up to the instructors whether to sign a person's logbook leaves room for them to exploit their customers.

Now I'm not saying that all instructors are like this. I, for example, was lucky to get lessons with an excellent instructor who didn't rip me off with these excuses. But there are definitely a few around and you can't even report an instructor for this kind of carry-on.

J_R

Cathalog wrote: »

Sounds a little bit like the "you need 3 hours of lessons before starting the EDT" bs that my friend got recently. The RSA need to sort this out. Having to pay for 12 lessons is difficult enough - but the fact that its completely up to the instructors whether to sign a person's logbook leaves room for them to exploit their customers.

From FAQs following ADI Briefing Sessions

Q. If some of the Expected Outcomes are not achieved, does the ADI still stamp the Logbook?
A. Yes, the feedback recorded in the logbook should reflect any shortfalls in terms of achieving the expected outcomes.

Therefore they have no right to refuse to sign and stamp the logbook. They simply write a brief explanation of what was/was not covered, but they MUST stamp. They can not hold a pupil to ransom.


When the EDT was launched part of the legislation stated

(3) A person undergoing lessons 1 to 8 of Essential Driver Training for Car Drivers is not entitled to progress to the next lesson or any subsequent lesson of the course unless he or she has demonstrated the necessary knowledge and ability for the procedures and processes of the proceeding lesson of the course to the satisfaction of the instructor.

However, this has been changed to:-

(3) A person may only undergo each of lessons 2 to 8 of Essential Driver Training for Car Drivers if he or she holds a logbook issued to him or her on which an instructor has signed and stamped the pages relating to the immediately preceding lesson as set out in the Schedule.

Therefore an instructor has no legal right to refuse. If s/he does refuse, change instructors.

Cathalog

Thanks a bunch for that. I'll send it onto my friend and hopefully he'll get his first lesson stamped now.

clanpiper

Toffypop wrote: »

Hi all,

I've been learning to drive for a few months now and have been taking two hour lessons. I've noticed however that my driving instructor has been putting the two houes done down in my log book as one lesson, I'm now in a position where I've done 16 hours of lessons but it's logged as 8. Is that normal?
He's also told me that he's nothing else to teach me so the next few hours will just be me driving around but looking on boards here I've only reversed once, same with 3 point turn, reversong around corners etc.
I'm wondering if not doing these things and the two hours is each time is standard?

Thanks

Speaking as an instructor I too have a pupil who prefers to do 2 hour lessons. She is not doing the EDT course but the format is as follows:
When we get the formalities/checks out of the way I will recap her last lesson ensuring she understood what we did and received sufficient practice in the interim period. She is then given the format of that days lesson.
In the first 3/4 - 1 hour we will do a 'complete test' lesson from the cockpit drill, under the bonnet and controls questions, through to carrying out her manouevres, general driving, roundabouts and junctions.
That way before the new lesson commences in the 2nd hour I can discover any habits, misconceptions that need to be dealt with. This also enables her to become used to the actual test day. Most of the 'drive around' is done without me speaking only to give directions as this gets the pupil used to an examiner siting and only giving directions as this can be quite a daunting thing for a pupil. (Try it yourself with a friend/relative in the car without talking for half an hour, just giving directions. Its an uneasy feeling)
We will then discuss the drive about dealing with anything that arises.
I will then move on to that days lesson for the second hour.

She is very happy with this scenario.

As for EDT. They are classed as 12 1hour lessons on specific parts of the course. An EDT lesson can be taught in 1 hour but THE most important factor is the practice you get after the lesson.

If I was a Maths teacher teaching you how to do Algebra I would spend a lesson teaching you on a specific string of Algebra. It is then up to you to go home and study and practice by way of worked examples how to apply the lesson I taught you.

No, he/she should definetely NOT be filling in your log book in advance.

Unfortunately the way that EDT has been advertised is that you do the 12 EDT lessons then you are ready for your test. That is the furthest from the truth than it can be. I can not/will not move onto the next EDT lesson unless the previous lesson has been completely understood and practiced. That is made clear to all my pupils. I am not in it to as a money making racketeer. If I don't have a lesson after the present one I will continue on free of charge. I build my reputation on contented, successful pupils.

The more dubious instructors will be discovered (we are check tested every 2 years).

Cathalog

" I can not/will not move onto the next EDT lesson unless the previous lesson has been completely understood and practiced"

According to a poster above, this is now illegal?


And by the way, I do agree that more than 12 lessons may be required to become competent. However, what I simply cannot understand is how people were able to pass with around just 4 or 6 lessons under their belt prior to the release of the EDT programme? It took me 20 lessons and I can't help but feel I've spent too much.

clanpiper

Cathalog wrote: »

" I can not/will not move onto the next EDT lesson unless the previous lesson has been completely understood and practiced"

According to a poster above, this is now illegal?


And by the way, I do agree that more than 12 lessons may be required to become competent. However, what I simply cannot understand is how people were able to pass with around just 4 or 6 lessons under their belt prior to the release of the EDT programme? It took me 20 lessons and I can't help but feel I've spent too much.

Ok, I admit I worded that a little strongly. Normally any misunderstanding can be dealt with at their next EDT lesson and that item can be practiced before moving on within the time constraints.
What I won't do is refuse to carry out an EDT lesson. Hopefully cleared up.

The reason people could take 4-6 lessons and pass their test is that they have been driving for a period of time either before or during the time they have been getting lessons.

You cannot put someone in a driving seat who hasn't driven before and have them up to test standard or anywhere near within 4-6 lessons.

Look at the averages for the continent.
On average it takes 40 hours of lessons/practice before someone sits their test.
Now look at Ireland. The unfortunate position with the amount of fatalities, the age group of those involved and the unfortunate opinion that 'I will take as few as possible'.
EDT was introduced not just to teach people to drive but also to change habits and attitudes. This wont happen overnight but a start had to be made somewhere.