Triax 110 combi dish and saorsat

dande

I got a triax 110 combi dish for Saorsat and freeview. I had no problem setting up freeview from the ASTRA 28 E Satallite. But have been unsuccessful setting up Saorview on 9E.

The KA-Sat that Saorview is on is not listed on the list of Satallites on the receiver. I used my KU lnb to point towards the eurobird 9E satallite. As my Dish was now trained towards 9E I then attached my KA lnb. As the satallite was not listed in the receiver settings I added it to the list using transponder settings I found on a web site. The transponder settings were as follows

Freq 10765
symbol 25000
Polarity V

When I changed to this satellite setting at 9E I got nothing.

My second problem was that when I set my dish to 9E I could not get Astra on 28E after hours of playing around with the lnb position on the arm. I even tried setting the dish to a satellite in between 28E and 9E and
tried to move the lnb on the offset arm. No luck.

Has anybody successfully got freesat and saorview on the Triax combi dish. Any ideas how I can get both working.

Thanks

Peter Rhea

So you're using one of the Inverto ka lnbs or do Triax supply one?

chputney

dande: The RTENL signal is DVB-S2. It cannot be received with a DVB-S receiver. If you have a different LNB to the Inverto the LO and polarization might be different. The actual frequency of the signal is 20.185GHz and the Inverto LO is 21.2GHz, so the assumed frequency which the receiver "thinks" that it is receiving with a Universal LNB (LO= 9.75GHz) is 21.2 - 20.185 + 9.75=0.010765GHz or 10.765MHz.

If your LNB has a different LO, then you need to recalculate where the signal will appear in the band. If the LO is below the signal frequency, then you must reverse the order of subtraction. Say the LO is 19GHz. Then the receiver frequency is 20.185 - 19 + 9.75 = 0.010935GHz or 10.935MHz.

Also, the Inverto uses the 13 volt 18 volt switching as 13 volts selects Left Circular Polarisation and 18V selects Right Circular Polarisation. This is the opposite of other LNBs (US types) which are 13 volts = R and 18 volts = L. The receiver "thinks" is has a Universal LNB so V = 13 volts and H = 18 volts.

Hope this helps.

dande

Thanks for you feedback.

The KA lnb is a Triax Twin TKT 001. Freq 19.7 -20.2 GHZ. I can't tell if the receiver is DVB S2 or DVB-S. But it supposed to be Saorsat compatible.

So what would the freq be now 10935.

Apologies for the simple question but I'm new to this satellite game.

Peter Rhea

You need to find the local oscillator (LO) frequency of the lnb, not its tuning range. Google doesn't turn up any info.

The 10935 figure is just an example of working out the tuning frequency when you know this. I think with some receivers it can be entered directly, so no need for the maths.

Apogee

The Triax LNBF is probably a rebranded Inverto, so 10765MHz should be fine.

Firstly, when you originally aligned the dish on 9E with the Ku-LNBF, what channels did you scan in to confirm you were aligned to 9E?

Secondly, when you did the scan for Saorsat with the Ka-LNBF, had you the option in the menu to specify a "DVB-S2" scan, and/or "QPSK" modulation?

chputney

dande: I cannot see a Triax Ka on the Triax site, and from other comments maybe it is a re-boxed Inverto. Have a look at the Inverto pic at http://www.inverto.tv/products/product.php?id=241

You must have some details of the LNB - what does it say on the box about LO?
Look at the receiver specs, it either says DVB-S2 HD or not.

How do you know that you are really at 9 degrees. You said that you mounted a Ku LNB and then used the receiver to "find" a signal. You need to verify that you are using the 9E selection and then check a received channel against a good source. I use http://www.lyngsat.com/Eutelsat-9A.html to check. If you are really at 9E, then you should be able to receive 11843V Sterk TV. This is DVB-S.

dande

I can't find the lo of the KA lnb it doesn't give any info on the box. The receiver specs don't give any tech info just the features and connection info. But I've contacted DID who I bought it off and asked them to find out as Triax won't deal with end users.

The software doesn't allow me to scan for a satellite. It just lists the satellites and you chose one then tune it in by adjusting the dish. To get a satellite at 9E I chose 9E KU-Eurobird. I could get a signal for that satellite so I presumed I was pointing the right direction.

chputney

dande: But you must verify what the channels are. You may be tuning in a channel from another sat. After you scan the channels for the assumed 9 degrees, then look at what you have and compare it with Lyngsat.

Apogee

dande wrote: »

To get a satellite at 9E I chose 9E KU-Eurobird. I could get a signal for that satellite so I presumed I was pointing the right direction.

You can't presume this - the same frequencies/polarities are re-used on different satellites.

You need to reattach the Ku-LNBF and check if you can tune in channels from 9E.

chputney

dande: What are the channel names of some of the channels you can "see" with your Ku LNB pointed at the assumed 9 degrees E ?

dande

Thanks again for you feedback. The receiver is saying I'm picking up KU_Eurobird 9E. But I must be getting another Sat as all my stations are Arabic

Not too sure where I go from here

chputney

Tell me the names and frequencies of a few channels and I'll help you figure out where you are pointed.

Like this, on 9E is:
Palestine Today 11657V SR2590
ANN 11727V SR 27500
Mesopotamia TV 11843V SR 27500
Sterk TV 11843V SR 27500

dande

Thanks. I'm getting stations such as

Dubai TV
BBC Persian
Al Bagdadia 2
Al-Arabia
Syria TV

chputney

dande: You are on Hotbird 13E. These channels are at 11747H, is that right ?

Go 4 degrees to the right.

dande

If I move to the right I'm losing signal.

If I do a channel scan it says I'm picking up channels 4 sats.

19.2 E Astra
23.5 Astra
9.0 E Eurobird
16.0E EutelSAT W2

Apogee

dande wrote: »

If I move to the right I'm losing signal.

If I do a channel scan it says I'm picking up channels 4 sats.

19.2 E Astra
23.5 Astra
9.0 E Eurobird
16.0E EutelSAT W2

You can only receive from one orbital position at any one time. The same frequencies are reused on different satellites and the dumb receiver doesn't know any differently.

If you move to right, you "lose signal" because you are moving away from Hotbird 13E. Keep moving right (and increase the elevation of the dish slightly) and the signal will eventually rise again as you align the dish on 9E.

Read this:
https://sites.google.com/site/freetoairinfo/home/how-to-align-a-satellite

Have you set the proper dish elevation for 9E - about 27 degrees?
https://sites.google.com/site/freetoairinfo/home/approximate-dish-elevation-angles-for-ireland

chputney

dande: The receiver says you are loosing signal probably because you are locked on a Hotbird transponder at 13E. You can't be receiving 4 sats with your Ku LNB. The dish will allow you to "see" a piece of sky 2 or 3 degrees wide.

The four channels you mentioned before are on Hotbird. See this list:
http://www.lyngsat.com/Eutelsat-Hot-Bird-13A-13B-13C.html
and look at frequency 11747H.

The channels at 11747H are encrypted, but your receiver might show the names.
http://www.lyngsat.com/Eutelsat-9A-and-Ka-Sat-9A.html

zg3409

Hey dande,

If you can afford it get a professional in, who has set up multi-lnb dishes before and one who has heard of SaorSAT and has done SaorSAT installations before.

For a Saorsat installation you need to confirm you have the following:

1) Confirm you cannot get Saorview -Saorsat is ONLY for areas where Saorview was attempted by a professional installer and failed. Are you sure you have no Saorview coverage, 100% sure and tested?


2) Receiver capable of DVB-S2 (which DID say you have)

3) Two LNBs, one for the UK channels, one special one for the Irish channels

4) A dish with a multi LNB bar capable of taking two LNBs

5) A DiSEQC switch for automatically changing between the LNBs

If all the above is too complicated then it's best to get someone to help. This is not easy and not intended for a beginner. It is not plug and play.

For Saorsat the dish is VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY directional. A hair in the wrong direction will get you nothing.

Ideally you need to pre-program the receiver in a house of someone with Saorsat to confirm the receiver is working and when it is pre-programmed it is much easier.

Ideally take your TV and receiver outside right beside the dish.

dande

Thanks for all your help.

We can't get saorview where we are. We are in West NW Mayo in a valley. I dd speak to a couple of installers but my impression is none of them have installed SaorSat or multiview systems. The only answer I get from installers is it will never work get sky.

I attached the KA lnb this morning and I couldn't pick up any sat. I have no problem picking up SATs on the standard lnb.

Do RTE realize how difficult they have made it for the 5% of us that can't get saorview.

SalteeDog

Sent you PM with details for an installer in that neck of the woods who has experience with Saorsat.

zg3409

dande wrote: »

I attached the KA lnb this morning and I couldn't pick up any sat. I have no problem picking up SATs on the standard lnb.

Do RTE realize how difficult they have made it for the 5% of us that can't get saorview.

RTENL Recommend a prefessional installation, not DIY.

Regarding the KA LNB. There is only one Sat out there with TV on KA. So you will get the RTE's or nothing. You won't find anything else using a KA LNB.

I does work 100% once installed correctly. It is not easy to set up without experience and proper test equipment.

dande

This maybe a stupid question why is it so difficult to find the KA-Sat when the other sats are so easy to find. What specialist equipment do you need.

Peter Rhea

Did you find the ku band satellite at 9 east (Eutelsat 9A)?

zg3409

dande wrote: »

This maybe a stupid question why is it so difficult to find the KA-Sat when the other sats are so easy to find. What specialist equipment do you need.

For setting up any dish a proper signal meter with bit error rate display is recommended. This can be used right at the dish.

I have no problem finding the KA sat. At KA the dish appears much more directional meaning for a 1.1M dish you need to be very accurately pointed.

Other sats are "easy" to find for some, but there are lots of them. It's harder to find the right one. I find KA easy to find, as it's the only one to find.

phelixoflaherty

Might help

http://www.saortv.info/satellite-saorsat/saorsat-reception/

dande

I just spoke to somebody who has installed the saorsat. He told me you can't get saorsat with a normal satfinder you have to use a HD Sat finder which costs over €500. This is the reason I can't find it.

PogMoThoin

dande wrote: »

I just spoke to somebody who has installed the saorsat. He told me you can't get saorsat with a normal satfinder you have to use a HD Sat finder which costs over €500. This is the reason I can't find it.

By HD I think he means the Horizon HD range
http://www.horizonhge.com/products_hd_s2.html

The Horizon HD does S2, older ones which most installers have (including me), doesn't.

Ronnie Raygun

dande wrote: »

He told me you can't get saorsat with a normal satfinder you have to use a HD Sat finder which costs over €500. This is the reason I can't find it.

What were you using? You never confirmed if you managed to find Eutelsat 9A.

zg3409

If you have a very cheap finder with a needle and a beep it will work. Also if you mount your TV and receiver beside the dish no need for an expensive finder.

Also if your finder has a spectrum display this will still work.

dande

Thanks for your replies. Sorry Ronnie I forgot to get back get back on the Eutel Sat 9A. I found that eventually.

Well thats good to know I don't need an expensive HD Sat finder.

Apogee

dande wrote: »

Thanks for your replies. Sorry Ronnie I forgot to get back get back on the Eutel Sat 9A. I found that eventually.

If you found 9A, then the dish is aligned, so all you have to do is replace the Ku-LNBf with the Ka-LNBf and tune in the channels.

dande

Thanks for all your responses. I just found out that the LO of the triax KA lnb is 20.25. Can anybody tell me what is the frequency I need to type into the transponder on the receiver.

Thanks

Apogee

dande wrote: »

Thanks for all your responses. I just found out that the LO of the triax KA lnb is 20.25. Can anybody tell me what is the frequency I need to type into the transponder on the receiver.

Thanks

The LO cannot possibly be 20.25GHz.

20250MHz - 20185MHz = 65MHz which is way outside the IF range of a sat receiver (typically 950-2100MHz).

Can you take a few photos of the Triax LNBF and box?

dande

Thanks Apogee. The input is the same as the inverto 19.7-20.2 ghz. I've attached photos

zg3409

I can't read any of that writing on the box. Can you type in what it says?

It seems to be identical to the inverto. The one I saw indoors at a show did not look like that. I assume the one I saw was a fake. I would assume you need to use the same settings as already recommended.

Ronnie Raygun

dande wrote: »

The receiver specs don't give any tech info just the features and connection info. But I've contacted DID who I bought it off and asked them to find out as Triax won't deal with end users.

So it's a Triax receiver too? Which one? Is the TSC114 actually Saorsat approved & if so shouldn't that allow you to enter the ka lnb settings directly?

Cesium Clock

settings for TSC114,

zg3409

Cesium Clock wrote: »

settings for TSC114,

But ignore the DiSEqC settings and do not use a DiSEqC switch until you get Saorsat working first.

Apogee

From email enquiry to Triax:

Triax Technical Support wrote:

The LO Frequency of the Ka band LNB is 21.2 GHz.

Best regards,

Triax Technical Department.

Which is exactly the same as the Inverto LO (as predicted).

dande

Thanks for all your replies. I managed to get Saorsat. Below are the transponder settings I used for the Triax KA-LNB

Frequency = 10767
Symbol Rate = 25000
Polarity= Vertical.

My next task is to try and get the free view channels on Astra as well

dande

It all works now.

For anybody doing this in the future. I pointed the dish at 19e and then adjusted the lnbs on either side. It takes a lot of patience but it does work.

I just used a standard sat finder.

Cesium Clock

dande wrote: »

It all works now.

For anybody doing this in the future. I pointed the dish at 19e and then adjusted the lnbs on either side. It takes a lot of patience but it does work.

I just used a standard sat finder.

And 3 pages of boards knowledge, :rolleyes: