Suicide.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Christianity views suicide as a sin, what is the basis for this, is it to do with Judus? Has the church evolved with modern developments such as the medical understanding of mental health.

Excuse me for this abrupt statement, but do you believe a person who takes their own life goes to hell?

Snappy Smurf

I think the basic thing is: Thou shalt not kill. That includes oneself.

The Catechism summarises the Church teaching on this issue:

2325 Suicide is seriously contrary to justice, hope, and charity. It is forbidden by the fifth commandment.

2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.

2282 If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal. Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.

Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

As regards hell, who can say? God is love and mercy itself. Suicide is a mortal sin. Is it possible that a soul might have an opportunity to repent before death? Yes. Will a soul have such an opportunity? Perhaps. Perhaps not. Expecting that one would get such an opportunity is itself a sin: the sin of presumption. Unrepented sin leads to hell.

For anyone feeling suicidal, these are two videos which may be helpful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy3bUTOYINA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVJDzI0CNDc

al28283

If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal. Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.

This one bothers me. It's almost as if leaders saw people killing themselves as a catylast for change and they outlawed it. Much as Tibetan monks of today. seems to me like a way of downplaying the idea of martrdom. That calls into question everything the bible says. Is it just a propaganda tool to keep the masses in line? Almost certaily yes

al28283

Not to say that matyrdom should be looked up to

dvae

most who take there own life are mentally ill, and perhaps God takes this into consideration
when making their final judgment. every man dies a sinner, and if suicide is a sin what makes
it different from any other sin.
there are some sins that the bible calls detestable to God, but as far as im aware, all sins are equal.

Mintoz

dvae wrote: »

most who take there own life are mentally ill, and perhaps God takes this into consideration
when making their final judgment. every man dies a sinner, and if suicide is a sin what makes
it different from any other sin.
there are some sins that the bible calls detestable to God, but as far as im aware, all sins are equal.

It's nothing to worry about regarding the souls of those who commited suicide. Gods judgement is always perfect.

Amen!

Cato Maior

Suicide has been frowned upon by most of the religions and ethical schools of the world with only a few exceptions, although most are only in specific circumstances (e.g. reasons of honour in Japan). In western philosophy, it was really only the Stoics that defended it as permissible (again only in certain circumstances) much to the scandal of their contemporaries in Greece and later in Rome. My name-sake's suicide was seen as entirely admirable by many, given the reasons for it.

Cato Maior

Any determination of the degree of guilt that attaches to any act should really take account of the 'frame of mind' of the actor and certainly any mental health difficulties could either mitigate or entirely excuse actions taken.

Tipsy McSwagger

dvae wrote: »

most who take there own life are mentally ill, and perhaps God takes this into consideration
when making their final judgment. every man dies a sinner, and if suicide is a sin what makes
it different from any other sin.
there are some sins that the bible calls detestable to God, but as far as im aware, all sins are equal.

Most people who commit suicide are suffering from severe depression.

totus tuus

Not all suicides are sinful. I would consider the tragedy of 15 year old Phoebe Prince who ended her life after being abused and bullied by several of her classmates as not sinful. However, those who treated her appallingly would have to render an account to God for her tragic death.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Phoebe_Prince

Onesimus

Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

And I don't know one person in my lifetime who did not experience any of this when wanting to commit suicide.

totus tuus

What about a suicide bomber?

Sarky

Or Jesus willingly walking to his death?

Onesimus

totus tuus wrote: »

What about a suicide bomber?

Could he be said to be in his right mind?

totus tuus

Onesimus wrote: »

Could he be said to be in his right mind?

.....or brainwashed!!

qrrgprgua

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Christianity views suicide as a sin, what is the basis for this, is it to do with Judus? Has the church evolved with modern developments such as the medical understanding of mental health.

Excuse me for this abrupt statement, but do you believe a person who takes their own life goes to hell?

Yes objectively its a sin. But we don't know the subjects mind when he/she takes their life.

For it to be a mortal sin it has to be the following:-

• Grave matter
• Committed with full knowledge
• Committed with deliberate and complete consent

Since with suicide we don't know if the person really consented, that is to say Mental illness can incapacitate the persons reasoning.





Suicide is a truly horrific topic.. Once the person is gone all that is left is pain and suffering for the rest of us. The best we can do is to pray for our loved ones..

zenno

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Christianity views suicide as a sin, what is the basis for this, is it to do with Judus? Has the church evolved with modern developments such as the medical understanding of mental health.

Excuse me for this abrupt statement, but do you believe a person who takes their own life goes to hell?

Well any focused and reasonably intelligent philosophical person would know that "hell" is on earth so what difference does it make if you commit suicide as you are already here in hell.

I hate the way this is done, that when a person commits suicide they are buried away from normal grave deaths so this should be a human rights issue as well, bloody religions always assuming the devil was in you for taking your own life and not looking into the hurt and pain of why such a person decided to commit suicide in the first place.

Hell ? your in it and living in it. Heaven ? sky, space maybe a better place if you continue on after death. Who's to say that this earth is not hell as we all can't just leave it anytime while alive and if you could you would have serious climate changes to deal with like turning into a Popsicle.

Rasheed

zenno wrote: »

Well any focused and reasonably intelligent philosophical person would know that "hell" is on earth so what difference does it make if you commit suicide as you are already here in hell.

I hate the way this is done, that when a person commits suicide they are buried away from normal grave deaths so this should be a human rights issue as well, bloody religions always assuming the devil was in you.

But aren't people buried in their family graves now if they commit suicide? Bullies acre is no longer used for suicides and unbaptised babies. Thank God.

Sarky

God didn't change the graveyard rules.

qrrgprgua

zenno wrote: »

Well any focused and reasonably intelligent philosophical person would know that "hell" is on earth so what difference does it make if you commit suicide as you are already here in hell.

I hate the way this is done, that when a person commits suicide they are buried away from normal grave deaths so this should be a human rights issue as well, bloody religions always assuming the devil was in you for taking your own life and not looking into the hurt and pain of why such a person decided to commit suicide in the first place.

Hell ? your in it and living in it. Heaven ? sky, space maybe a better place if you continue on after death. Who's to say that this earth is not hell as we all can't just leave it anytime while alive and if you could you would have serious climate changes to deal with like turning into a Popsicle.

Wrong.. If a person commits suicide they are buried as any other person.

There is no discrimination. At least not in the Catholic Church.

Monty Burnz

qrrgprgua wrote: »

Wrong.. If a person commits suicide they are buried as any other person.

There is no discrimination. At least not in the Catholic Church.

And it's been that way since...

zenno

qrrgprgua wrote: »

Wrong.. If a person commits suicide they are buried as any other person.

There is no discrimination. At least not in the Catholic Church.

Well I didn't realize that, as I thought you were buried in a different location. I assumed this was the case but thanks for clarifying this to me.

Hell though as a place of suffering and damnation would be akin to this planet though do you not think ? so I don't know why religion goes on about "you will go to hell" if you are bad and do evil things. I just have this problem with the Hell thing.

eviltwin

zenno wrote: »

Well I didn't realize that, as I thought you were buried in a different location. I assumed this was the case but thanks for clarifying this to me.

Hell though as a place of suffering and damnation would be akin to this planet though do you not think ? so I don't know why religion goes on about "you will go to hell" if you are bad and do evil things. I just have this problem with the Hell thing.

It was the case until recently, I know a family member of a friend of mine who took his own life was allowed to be buried in the family plot but only after his death was attributed to an "accident".

zenno

eviltwin wrote: »

It was the case until recently, I know a family member of a friend of mine who took his own life was allowed to be buried in the family plot but only after his death was attributed to an "accident".

I see.

As the op mentioned...Christianity views suicide as a sin, what is the basis for this.
I would like to hear why this is the case as well.

Rasheed

Sarky wrote: »

God didn't change the graveyard rules.

No He didnt but who ever did was right. Losing a loved on was torture never mind having to bury them outside consecrated ground. It was a horrible rule.

Cruel Sun

qrrgprgua wrote: »

There is no discrimination. At least not in the Catholic Church.

Huh?

qrrgprgua

Martin_94 wrote: »

Huh?

HUH? What's your point.

Cruel Sun

qrrgprgua wrote: »

HUH? What's your point.

There's plenty of discrimination in the catholic church.

qrrgprgua

Martin_94 wrote: »

There's plenty of discrimination in the catholic church.

Where is there discrimination on the catholic church on the burial of those who committed suicide?

Cruel Sun

qrrgprgua wrote: »

Where is there discrimination on the catholic church on the burial of those who committed suicide?

None at all, although there has been in the past.

It's just you said :

"There is no discrimination. At least not in the Catholic Church."

Which is something I found quite odd, and inaccurate.

al28283

Martin_94 wrote: »

None at all, although there has been in the past.

It's just you said :

"There is no discrimination. At least not in the Catholic Church."

Which is something I found quite odd, and inaccurate.

You agree that there is no discrimination in the catholic church on the burial of those who committed suicide and yet you say it is odd and inaccurate?

Cruel Sun

al28283 wrote: »

You agree that there is no discrimination in the catholic church on the burial of those who committed suicide and yet you say it is odd and inaccurate?

The statement on it's own is rather inaccurate, and the poster skipped a line, which gave the impression that s/he meant it as general comment.

Regarding discrimination in the catholic church on the burial of those who committed suicide the statement is correct, as far as I know.

qrrgprgua

Martin_94 wrote: »

The statement on it's own is rather inaccurate, and you skipped a line, which gave the impression that you meant it as general comment.

Regarding discrimination in the catholic church on the burial of those who committed suicide the statement is correct, as far as I know.

Yes I know its correct.

zenno

Ehh... why has this question not been answered yet ?...

As the op mentioned...Christianity views suicide as a sin, what is the basis for this.
I would like to hear why this is the case as well.

Can anyone answer it ?.

Benny_Cake

Is suicide a sin? If carried out with full awareness as to the gravity and consequences of what the person is doing, yes it could be. That said, I never heard of a suicide which would fit that.

As for those who commit suicide going to he'll, it could be argued that they were going through their own hell when they took their own life. I'm something of a hopeful universalist (in that I hope no one will be permanently separated from the love of God). If we trust in God's mercy, we won't trust in vain. I would say, as someone who has gone through spells of anxiety and depression, the love and kindness of other people was what got me through it. So if anyone knows someone going through a tough spell, be there for them.

Cruel Sun

zenno wrote: »

Ehh... why has this question not been answered yet ?...

As the op mentioned...Christianity views suicide as a sin, what is the basis for this.
I would like to hear why this is the case as well.

Can anyone answer it ?.

The catholic church believe that a persons life is the property of "God" and a gift to the world, and to end ones life is to take control of what is "Gods". (So not really any basis for it)

Views differ between each christian religion however.

I think churches are generally moving away from viewing it as a sin, as they've seen that it is a really sensitive and complex issue.

qrrgprgua

Benny_Cake wrote: »

Is suicide a sin? If carried out with full awareness as to the gravity and consequences of what the person is doing, yes it could be. That said, I never heard of a suicide which would fit that.

As for those who commit suicide going to he'll, it could be argued that they were going through their own hell when they took their own life. I'm something of a hopeful universalist (in that I hope no one will be permanently separated from the love of God). If we trust in God's mercy, we won't trust in vain. I would say, as someone who has gone through spells of anxiety and depression, the love and kindness of other people was what got me through it. So if anyone knows someone going through a tough spell, be there for them.

Since we don't know why they committed suicide we don't judge them.

Suicide is a sin. Its the ultimate selfish act... I say this as someone who has suffer the effects of someone who took their own life.

Its all very well to knock yourself off .. but it always corrodes families and people around the deceased.

For that reason I won't say that people who take their own lives don't go to hell.. we don't know, I hope not. But God gave us a life for a reason.

Suicide is a sad discussion because its one ended.. I only hope that anyone thinking about taking their live will take a moment to look for help.. Esp those who have money problems.. debts.. Please don't let that destroy your life.

Local business man hanged himself in the shop last year, left wife and 2 kids.. Of course its hard when your business is failing. but think of those who love you. Don't be selfish look for help, its out there.

Snappy Smurf

zenno wrote: »

Ehh... why has this question not been answered yet ?...

As the op mentioned...Christianity views suicide as a sin, what is the basis for this.
I would like to hear why this is the case as well.

Can anyone answer it ?.

I did. See my previous post.

Benny_Cake

qrrgprgua wrote: »

Local business man hanged himself in the shop last year, left wife and 2 kids.. Of course its hard when your business is failing. but think of those who love you. Don't be selfish look for help, its out there.

Sorry for your loss. The thing is, a suicidal person is probably going to be unable to conceive of what they are doing as being selfish. Tragically, they may even feel they are doing other people a favour.

Tipsy McSwagger

Martin_94 wrote: »

The catholic church believe that a persons life is the property of "God" and a gift to the world, and to end ones life is to take control of what is "Gods". (So not really any basis for it)

Views differ between each christian religion however.

I think churches are generally moving away from viewing it as a sin, as they've seen that it is a really sensitive and complex issue.

They are moving away from it because they are desperate to hold onto what members they still have and not upset them with such stupid beliefs.

Cruel Sun

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

They are moving away from it because they are desperate to hold onto what members they still have and not upset them with such stupid beliefs.

Perhaps, or most likely a combination of both.

doctoremma

Benny_Cake wrote: »

Sorry for your loss. The thing is, a suicidal person is probably going to be unable to conceive of what they are doing as being selfish. Tragically, they may even feel they are doing other people a favour.

I can only agree.

For someone making the decision to commit suicide, the ONLY thoughts they have focus on how much better the world, their families and their friends will be without them.

mrty

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Christianity views suicide as a sin, what is the basis for this, is it to do with Judus? Has the church evolved with modern developments such as the medical understanding of mental health.

Excuse me for this abrupt statement, but do you believe a person who takes their own life goes to hell?

Never mind the church, full of it. People don't go to hell when they take their own life because there is no hell its that simple.

Turtwig

I'm pretty sure this isn't the type of resurrection anyone on this forum wants. Let the thread rest in peace.