Installing mixer between supply and washing machine

TheChizler

I had a look through the forum but couldn't find a thread that matched my problem exactly. We recently installed solar heating and it's working very well. In an effort to conserve energy we hooked the dishwasher up to the hot feed and that seems to be working well. I would like to do something similar with the washing machine.

It only has a cold feed so I can't hook the hot water up directly, as I don't want to cook the clothes. Has anyone experience in hooking up mixer and non return valves? We'd like the water to be ideally 30 degrees C as this is what we wash at, however I have noticed with the dishwasher that when water enters at > 60 degrees C from the solar tank, it gets quite cold immediately due to heat lost to the machine. Maybe the feed needs to be a little hotter than 30 for the washing machine due to this effect. At the moment I am presuming that the machine has a thermostat so it won't boil the s**t out of the clothes after warm water enters.

The guys who installed the solar system (a reputable company mind you) told us that they had installed the mixer and taken care of this, only recently when I was looking behind I noticed that it was just a direct feed to cold. In fairness they said they wouldn't charge for it so I wasn't expecting much.

Just looking for advice from people who have done this and for anyone to point out if it's a bad idea, or even would water entering at 60 be ok due to the immediate cooling effect? Again I'm just presuming washing machines have thermostats, seems like the obvious conclusion. I will in the meantime investigate this myself. Cheers!

aujopimur

Your system should have had mixer installed near the cylinder.
If your WM is a distance from the cylinder the hot water is unlikely to reach it.
If your WM has only a single/cold connection it should not be fed with hot water.

Outkast_IRE

I personally would be tempted to bite the bullet and get one of these machines, the price is high but they come with a seriosuly good parts and labour warranty to justify it.

Have a read.
http://shop.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/product_info.php?ref=3&products_id=6810&affiliate_banner_id=1

DGOBS

And side by side with a gas speed queen tumble dryer

heinbloed

Mod edit <Snip>- as the OP asks for:

Just looking for advice from people who have done this and for anyone to point out if it's a bad idea, or even would water entering at 60 be ok due to the immediate cooling effect?

Yes, but only as long as the machine is cold, before the first warm-up phase.

After this it will

boil the s**t out of the clothes after warm water enters.

So the thermal mixer makes sense. The ST energy is the cheapest you can get once the system is payed for. All larger launderies - those with a commercial interest - use pre-warmed water, some cover their thermal demand by 100% with pre-warmed water. Even when using electricity for storage heating the pre-warmed water is to be preferred for commercial reasons.
Cheap night tarifs, low power load due to extendended grid draw, no calcification in the expensive machines.

Why doubting this type of installation, OP ?

There are special devices available for exactly this job, programmable ones, since decades. Not in Ireland's shops due to vested interests but via reputeable traders.

The standard thermal mixer valve is the cheaper solution however. Make sure the infeed pressure from both - cold and warm - matches the demand, read the mixing valve manufacturer's instructions.
Most washing machines are suited for warm feed-in, despite having only 1 connection. The standard machine takes 50 degrees Celsius (mixing valve demanded!) the " Solar Thermal suitable " ones are designed for 60 degrees Celsius. Again: read the manufacturer's instructions regarding temperature and pressure.

If using chemicals covering the fabrics - like impregnation or softeners - make sure the temperature limits are kept. The programable mixer valve makes sense in this case.

(My Bosch runs in the suggested set-up since about 5 years, no problem.)

KoolKid

Heinbloed, you just can't help yourself, can you?
I have said, either be civil here or don't post. People here put their time in here to help others. They are not going to get abuse from your for their troubles. You of all people have some neck to call anyone trolls.
As I've said your posts are going to edited or deleted so no one has to read your abuse.
I sick of handing out warnings. You have managed to get 3 infractions in the last few days That gets you a weeks ban from here.
Come back with a better attitude or we can make it longer.

TheChizler

Wow what did I miss?? Well thanks for all the advice anyway. Still trying to root out the manual to see what it says explicitly about the feeds. The water pressure in our house is extremely variable, with multiple extensions and partial system overhauls and a automatic booster pump that doesn't always kick in.

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

I personally would be tempted to bite the bullet and get one of these machines, the price is high but they come with a seriosuly good parts and labour warranty to justify it.

Have a read.
http://shop.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/product_info.php?ref=3&products_id=6810&affiliate_banner_id=1

For those reasons I think your suggestion might be best! I'll have to hope the current one packs it in sometime soon. Have it 12 years and only ever one minor problem with it.

Merch

This idea of saving money through reduced energy usage by connecting up an existing hot water supply to a washing machine and bringing it down by mixing to a level that is acceptable for a standard machine to use is something I was thinking of myself,

but at the cost of the machines £999 (sterling) and the warranty at 3 years is only maybe 2 years longer than a standard warranty? I'm sure our samsung has a longer warranty than that (it may depend on what the warranty covers of course) but the savings in electricity consumption, do they add up to the additional cost??
If it only breaks even then there is no cost saving? lets say that a standard washing machine costs (using the websites currency) 250 pounds (which is about 315 euros, so its a reasonable expectation to pay that amount for a washing machine, I know you can pay much more) , then you have to save 750 pounds over the lifetime of the machine on electricity bills and you have to front the money at the start.

Unless the user has high usage such as at least light commercial use as they suggest in their website then it may not add up?
I'd prefer if they still had a hot water supply connection to standard washing machines like they used to.

paddy147

TheChizler wrote: »

I had a look through the forum but couldn't find a thread that matched my problem exactly. We recently installed solar heating and it's working very well. In an effort to conserve energy we hooked the dishwasher up to the hot feed and that seems to be working well. I would like to do something similar with the washing machine.

It only has a cold feed so I can't hook the hot water up directly, as I don't want to cook the clothes. Has anyone experience in hooking up mixer and non return valves? We'd like the water to be ideally 30 degrees C as this is what we wash at, however I have noticed with the dishwasher that when water enters at > 60 degrees C from the solar tank, it gets quite cold immediately due to heat lost to the machine. Maybe the feed needs to be a little hotter than 30 for the washing machine due to this effect. At the moment I am presuming that the machine has a thermostat so it won't boil the s**t out of the clothes after warm water enters.

The guys who installed the solar system (a reputable company mind you) told us that they had installed the mixer and taken care of this, only recently when I was looking behind I noticed that it was just a direct feed to cold. In fairness they said they wouldn't charge for it so I wasn't expecting much.

Just looking for advice from people who have done this and for anyone to point out if it's a bad idea, or even would water entering at 60 be ok due to the immediate cooling effect? Again I'm just presuming washing machines have thermostats, seems like the obvious conclusion. I will in the meantime investigate this myself. Cheers!

Can I ask you how you hooked up the dishwasher to the solar system please?

I too have a solar system myself,and when I read your post,I was and am interested in the bit about using the dishwasher off the solar system.

Do you get good results from the dishwasher with the hot water link from the solar syatem?

Thanks.:)

Outkast_IRE

Merch wrote: »

This idea of saving money through reduced energy usage by connecting up an existing hot water supply to a washing machine and bringing it down by mixing to a level that is acceptable for a standard machine to use is something I was thinking of myself,

but at the cost of the machines £999 (sterling) and the warranty at 3 years is only maybe 2 years longer than a standard warranty? I'm sure our samsung has a longer warranty than that (it may depend on what the warranty covers of course) but the savings in electricity consumption, do they add up to the additional cost??
If it only breaks even then there is no cost saving? lets say that a standard washing machine costs (using the websites currency) 250 pounds (which is about 315 euros, so its a reasonable expectation to pay that amount for a washing machine, I know you can pay much more) , then you have to save 750 pounds over the lifetime of the machine on electricity bills and you have to front the money at the start.

Unless the user has high usage such as at least light commercial use as they suggest in their website then it may not add up?
I'd prefer if they still had a hot water supply connection to standard washing machines like they used to.

Are you talking about the machine i linked to ?
The warranty is 10 years parts and labour for dometic use with that, nothing else on the market can match that as far as i know.

It is also A++AA rated i have never seen another machine with such a good energy rating cert. It also has all the features that are found at the top of the line machines by other manufacturers.

If you had a family , you would be washing every day with it, imo it would be money well spent if you had the solar heated hot water.

TheChizler

paddy147 wrote: »

Can I ask you how you hooked up the dishwasher to the solar system please?

I too have a solar system myself,and when I read your post,I was and am interested in the bit about using the dishwasher off the solar system.

Do you get good results from the dishwasher with the hot water link from the solar syatem?

Thanks.:)

Disconnected it from the cold feed and connected it to the hot feed!

Solar storage tank just replaces the hot water cylinder, so all the hot water in the house comes from it.

It normally works pretty well. We have a sink next to it so it works better if you've been using the hot tap for a while. I'd love to install a recirculating hot water system but the thought of the work involved puts me off (we kinda already have one cause the cold water gets hot when the booster pump is on :eek:). Water goes in at ~60 and goes lukewarm immediately cause of having to heat the machine itself, but that's still providing heat that would otherwise be electrically provided.

Merch

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Are you talking about the machine i linked to ?
The warranty is 10 years parts and labour for dometic use with that, nothing else on the market can match that as far as i know.

It is also A++AA rated i have never seen another machine with such a good energy rating cert. It also has all the features that are found at the top of the line machines by other manufacturers.

If you had a family , you would be washing every day with it, imo it would be money well spent if you had the solar heated hot water.

I didnt see that till now, I did a search for warranty and it went straight to the 3 years, that 10 years is more than any standard machine but it does cost a lot.
I think the longest I got out of a washing machine was about 7 years, but that had a motor with brushes in it, replaced them and 1 or 2 solenoid valves too. It was getting frequent use, mostly one use daily.
Funny thing is, when I was growing up, we had the same machine most of the time I was there till I left home! I'll have to check that but I'm sure it was 15yrs old, possibly not too energy efficient.

Outkast_IRE

Merch wrote: »

I didnt see that till now, I did a search for warranty and it went straight to the 3 years, that 10 years is more than any standard machine but it does cost a lot.
I think the longest I got out of a washing machine was about 7 years, but that had a motor with brushes in it, replaced them and 1 or 2 solenoid valves too. It was getting frequent use, mostly one use daily.
Funny thing is, when I was growing up, we had the same machine most of the time I was there till I left home! I'll have to check that but I'm sure it was 15yrs old, possibly not too energy efficient.

sure we were the same in my house machine lasted well over the decade, i think the race to the bottom cost wise and production shift to china has caused a lot of these issues. same as most appliances.
I think the energy ratings on machines will become more and more a selling point now though as everything from TVs to lightbulbs is being rated now, and people are taking notice.

Merch

I dont recal the washing machine having that many features, the more features the more that can go wrong.
Still, I do think the balance of cost and energy usage has to be calculated, to see if the savings in electrical consumption add up to the extra cost.
I think that if something uses less energy and lasts its good, but I wonder about certain things, ie light bulbs that have more chemicals in them and may or may not last as long or as many cycles as they claim to.

If there is a viable means to recycle them then good, same for washing machines, I'm all for something that lasts longer, and means less to be recycled/landfilled in the first place. I think it just means returning to somewhere we already were 20+ years ago.