What does Irish Law say about using Rear Naked Choke's or any Blood Choke?

kvasir

I've heard of people in the US being charged with attempted murder because the person can die if it's held for long enough, especially people with bjj experience because they knew it could happen. Is there any precedent for someone using an RNC in a self defence situation in Ireland?

arybvtcw0eolkf

Moved from the Self Defence and Martial Arts forum.

For the legal people this is a RNC (Rear Naked Choke);

And at one minute this is a Rear Naked Choke applied on the street;

Tom Young

kvasir wrote: »

I've heard of people in the US being charged with attempted murder because the person can die if it's held for long enough, especially people with bjj experience because they knew it could happen. Is there any precedent for someone using an RNC in a self defence situation in Ireland?

No: See Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act 1997, S.18, re. self-defence. The appropriate use of force must be proportionate in the circumstances.

Such a choke hold would not be, as it is a restraining manoeuvre which could result in death, contrary to S.4 of the Criminal Justice Act 1964.

Use of a restraint appropriate and in self-defence should not result in death, unless the victim could possibly be in fear of same. Now, placing someone in a choke position, versus another form of restraint, such as arm/thumb/shoulder locks may be a more proportionate response in all the circumstances.

Airways are a no go.

Attempt in Irish law, requires intent to follow through with some act. The act suggested is restraint in self-defence. The victim, who has peculiar knowledge of martial arts or defence techniques, e.g., Krav Maga, etc. should be slow to use disproportionate force, even in a moment of provocation, etc.

A resulting homicide or death from such a technique would result in a charge of murder contrary to S.4, but would more than likely be reduced to manslaughter depending on the particular facts of the case.

Provication resulting in death will only reduce murder to manslaughter, not result in acquittal.

Tom

Tom Young

Provocation - to be successfully raised it must be proven that the victim, who was the initial provoker, had cause a sudden and temporary loss of self-control [in their victim or self-defender] to the extent that he didn't know or intend the resulting consequences.

Can it be said that those victims, turned self-defenders with expert and peculiar knowledge of self-defence techniques would in fact lose control during the execution of such a manoeuvre? I think in most instances the answer would be in the negative.