Transcendental Meditation

messinkiapina

It's very hard to find independent, non-biased information on it. A quick google on the subject throws back tonnes of pages of 'scientific studies' with incredible results conducted by scientists at the TM institute :rolleyes: There are lots of 'seemingly' independent and favourable reviews too, but it's hard to tell shill reviews from genuine ones.

Has anybody on here tried Transcendental Meditation? I believe that in spite of the TM institutes propaganda campaign there may still be some substance to it. I'd just to hear the opinions of non-affiliated people.

El_Dangeroso

I do TM, I have a hippyish mom so got my mantra very young in life.

TM mantra's now cost in the region of 1500 euro which I think is exorbitant.

There is nothing special about TM that does not apply to all other forms of meditation. The benefits of meditation as a form of stress management are well established in the literature. Increases in the 'relaxation' neurotransmitter GABA have been observed so it does seem to have a physiological effect.

But you can learn meditation from a book or from youtube videos, all it takes is practice.

No need for an expensive mantra.

messinkiapina

Thanks for the replies.

Yes, Dangeroso. The TM institute are charging people huge fees. Sending them on courses that last several days to teach them a technique that can be learnt in the space of a few minutes; a friend of mine taught me the technique, but I haven't used it yet.

It seems to me that the TM institute are a bunch of money-grabbing propagandists, which in turn makes me very suspect of the claims they attribute to the technique. Which is why I'm trying to get the opinions of other before using it. There are also some claims that the technique can be dangerous for some people. Is there any truth in that?

barryspivack

I cannot claim to be independent as I am a TM teacher in England. It is certainly much less expensive to learn TM in England than the US and the price does vary from country to country.

The scientific research is your best independent guide - look at the work of Fred Travis, Vernon Barnes and Robert Schneider. Their studies have been published in independent peer reviewed academic journals. Often they have been collaborating with non-meditators at independent universities. I think all of Barnes work has been done at the University of Georgia. You could also take a look at the David Lynch Foundation website www.davidlynchfoundation.org which shows some of the people helped by TM.

As to whether all meditations are essentially the same I would suggest you look at the research. What it shows is that different meditations produce different effects and these can be seen in EEG measurements.
http://www.fredtravis.com/talk.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l41mBbn4ho

Hope that helps. I appreciate it is tricky to decide on something as abstract as meditation which is why I would suggest look at the research as everyone has their axe to grind.

Dave!

Without wishing to come across as lazy or dismissive, Barry could you link directly to some of the better studies that have been done on TM?

Ideally on PubMed.

barryspivack

Is there any particular area that interests you? eg Travis tends to focus on EEG and brain integration - Barnes on TM in young black adolescents, Schneider on heart problems and again particularly amongst african americans where this is a problem. This link will give you a whole range of meditations.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=transcendental%20meditation%20hypertension
here is another again with all types of meditations
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=transcendental%20meditation%20hypertension

I suggest googling Fred Travis as his work on the brain is really fundamental although not generally pointing to specific benefits. by the way you definitely need a teacher and not a book or a video whatever method you decide on. Mindfulness is currently flavour of the month but have a look at the study by Ellen Langer of Harvard and Charles Alexander on the elderly. One of my favourite randomised studies.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2693686

El_Dangeroso

barryspivack wrote: »

Is there any particular area that interests you? eg Travis tends to focus on EEG and brain integration - Barnes on TM in young black adolescents, Schneider on heart problems and again particularly amongst african americans where this is a problem. This link will give you a whole range of meditations.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=transcendental%20meditation%20hypertension
here is another again with all types of meditations
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=transcendental%20meditation%20hypertension

I suggest googling Fred Travis as his work on the brain is really fundamental although not generally pointing to specific benefits. by the way you definitely need a teacher and not a book or a video whatever method you decide on. Mindfulness is currently flavour of the month but have a look at the study by Ellen Langer of Harvard and Charles Alexander on the elderly. One of my favourite randomised studies.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2693686

How does 'mindfulness training' compare to TM? Where are the studies that show that other forms of meditation, when correctly taught and practiced is inferior to TM? Having been trained in TM and read books on other forms of meditation I can't see a huge difference in technique.

barryspivack

I don't want to say that one type of meditation is inferior to another.

Here is one link

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2693686

Here is another.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2693491

First Aid Ireland

While the end points don't seem to be all that consistent amongst the studies quoted above, it's still a step in the right direction. One of the main complaints about alternative therapies is that they don't make an effort to provide an evidence base.

Of course it would be great to see big trials, but it looks as though these lads are doing more than most. It's a start, anyway, as far as I'm concerned, and should be encouraged.

NSRUSA

About transcending being fast to learn: if we didn't know how to fall asleep, even though it is easy, we might very well have to take a course to learn. Transcending is the fourth state of consciousness (distinguished by brain wave, blood biochemistry, and other physiological markers). Because we don't know how to do it, we accumulate dysfunctions due to internalized stress throughout our lives. It does, in fact, require several lessons to learn, even though it is absurdly simple once we have learned. One big problem in learning is that we are used to working hard to learn anything; transcending requires innocence and effortlessness instead, which are new to most of us.

About Mindfulness vs. transcending: they really are quite different. Transcending makes use of the natural tendency of the mind to seek fields of greater satisfaction. It uses this natural tendency to follow the thinking process backward to discover the source of thinking, which is a field of unbounded creativity and intelligence. And not only are the processes quite different, the results seen by physiological and psychological measurement are dramatically different. Finally, the instructions in transcending are precise and effective. Questions are fully answered, and one is not left in confusion, boredom, or with mental strain, which are three common experiences in Mindfulness.

David Spector
(former TM teacher, USA)

messinkiapina

I've been practicing this for 4 days now. The only really obvious thing I've noticed so far is a strange tingling sensation around the crown of my head. It happens while meditating, and also at various intervals during the day between mediations. It's almost feels like the fuzzy, static electricity feeling you get when you put your hand on the screen of a TV. Anyone else who meditates experienced anything like that? I hope it's a good thing and not something bad!

NSRUSA

@messinkiapina This is a frequent side effect of the elimination of stored (internalized) stresses. It probably won't last very long, because as soon as the stress being released is completely gone the side effect can't happen any longer. You should keep in touch with your teacher so you have the support you need as you begin to notice more and more benefits, not just side effects of stress release. - David Spector

messinkiapina

NSRUSA wrote: »

@messinkiapina This is a frequent side effect of the elimination of stored (internalized) stresses. It probably won't last very long, because as soon as the stress being released is completely gone the side effect can't happen any longer. You should keep in touch with your teacher so you have the support you need as you begin to notice more and more benefits, not just side effects of stress release. - David Spector

Thanks for the quick reply. I hope that is the case

jconn

@messinkiapina I am curious to know if you continue to practice TM well over a year later. If so how would you describe the experience?

I am thinking of learning TM in the coming weeks, and would like to know more about the experience

messinkiapina

jconn wrote: »

@messinkiapina I am curious to know if you continue to practice TM well over a year later. If so how would you describe the experience?

I am thinking of learning TM in the coming weeks, and would like to know more about the experience

I didn't practice it for more than a couple of weeks, jconn. I think at the time I was just finding it very hard to put 30 minutes aside for meditation so I jacked it in quickly enough. I do wish I had the patience to give it a proper go though.

I did manage to practice 'mindfulness' meditation daily for 2 months or so earlier this year, but again I slowly started missing days, and eventually stopped altogether. I'm not sure if it made a difference or not, I find it very hard to gauge that since my moods fluctuate on their own over time anyway.

El_Dangeroso

messinkiapina wrote: »

I didn't practice it for more than a couple of weeks, jconn. I think at the time I was just finding it very hard to put 30 minutes aside for meditation so I jacked it in quickly enough. I do wish I had the patience to give it a proper go though.

I did manage to practice 'mindfulness' meditation daily for 2 months or so earlier this year, but again I slowly started missing days, and eventually stopped altogether. I'm not sure if it made a difference or not, I find it very hard to gauge that since my moods fluctuate on their own over time anyway.

You know the saying 'You should sit in meditation every day for 30 minutes, unless you are very busy in which case you should sit for an hour' :P

jconn

I am reluctant to spend €600 to learn TM and receive a mantra, I need to come up with a mantra myself and try this out on my own!

El_Dangeroso

jconn wrote: »

I am reluctant to spend €600 to learn TM and receive a mantra, I need to come up with a mantra myself and try this out on my own!

A great book I read on the subject was Meditations to change your brain. It's part written by a neurobiologist so fairly light on the woo-factor and it's got a lot of interesting research in it too.

YFlyer

jconn wrote: »

I am reluctant to spend €600 to learn TM and receive a mantra, I need to come up with a mantra myself and try this out on my own!

It won't be TM you be practicing then. And you wont get the same benefits.

messinkiapina

YFlyer wrote: »

It won't be TM you be practicing then. And you wont get the same benefits.

Is that just a sales line from the TM institute (they seem to be a bit heavy on the propaganda)? Or is there really a difference between TM and other mantra based meditations? I've heard people who've paid the €600 to the TM institute say that it was a waste of money and the same technique could be learned for much cheaper/free via other resources.

Also, what are the pros and cons of mantra based meditation over mindfulness?

YFlyer

messinkiapina wrote: »

Is that just a sales line from the TM institute (they seem to be a bit heavy on the propaganda)? Or is there really a difference between TM and other mantra based meditations? I've heard people who've paid the €600 to the TM institute say that it was a waste of money and the same technique could be learned for much cheaper/free via other resources.

Also, what are the pros and cons of mantra based meditation over mindfulness?

What propaganda?

You should stick to one of the techniques, whether TM or mindfulness, you learnt and practice daily to reap the benefits.

The cost of TM shouldn't be an issue and you have the technique for life. The TM teachers do need to make a living and some of the money is used to teach people in less affluent countries throughout the world. There are grants for students and others through the David Lynch Foundation if people are genuinely stuck.

http://www.davidlynchfoundation.org/

All the best

Ray

trigger26

How do you know you wont get the same benefits? Have you practised other techniques to know this for sure or have you become attached to the idea that TM is superior in some way because you spent a good bit of money on it? Seeing Clint Eastwood and Jerry Seinfeld on the website makes me vary wary, my gut instinct is that any meditation that brings you closer to the present moment and tunes into your body will bring benefits.

Veesport

Harvard University's Herbert Benson MD wrote a very good book called "The Relaxation Response"

Its less than €10 to buy, but you can read the method on how to elicit the response for free online...


Wouldn't you consider starting there before you spend money?

Veesport

YFlyer

Veesport wrote: »

Harvard University's Herbert Benson MD wrote a very good book called "The Relaxation Response"

Its less than €10 to buy, but you can read the method on how to elicit the response for free online...


Wouldn't you consider starting there before you spend money?

Veesport

Not the same as TM. Herbert Benson hypothesis has shown to be false.

Veesport

Ok YFLYER...Thats a sweeping statement...So...Who says its been shown to be false...?

Post here..