Revivalist Faiths

Urizen

Couldn't really think of an appropriate name for this thread. I'll try to explain.

I've been wondering if there any others here who would consider themselves a member of a revivalist pagan faith? I mean, I'm a Hellenic Polytheist. And to the best of my knowledge, I'm the only one in the Republic of Ireland (I know one other in Belfast). I'd love to know if there were others, since my entire religious community is online at the moment. Gets a bit lonely, ya know?

I know Asatru is relatively big, and I've met one or two Kemeticists. Druidism seems pretty popular too, as well as some other Celtic recon faiths. But primarily, Wicca seems to be the main pagan belief system in Ireland, and other neopagan faiths that are relatively recent.

TL;DR: Are there any other revivalists out there?

Morag

I don't think Wicca is, I think there are just people who use that term as a catch all.

Urizen

Sharrow wrote: »

I don't think Wicca is, I think there are just people who use that term as a catch all.

That'd make sense, I guess.

Tigger

i don't care for the term tbh
makes it sound like it hardley predates anything.

Urizen

Tigger wrote: »

i don't care for the term tbh
makes it sound like it hardley predates anything.

Well we're hardly in it for the thrill and prestige of saying it's old... What would you suggest as a better name?

Tigger

please forgive any offence i spoke only for my own house

things happen in cycles, when the wheel turned back to the older ways that was a resurgance rather than a revival in my opinion

but i'm all for everyone to name or not name what they are or are not, i simply don't care for the term to describe myself

Urizen

Tigger wrote: »

please forgive any offence i spoke only for my own house

things happen in cycles, when the wheel turned back to the older ways that was a resurgance rather than a revival in my opinion

but i'm all for everyone to name or not name what they are or are not, i simply don't care for the term to describe myself

Ha, no offense taken, sorry if it looked that way :P

Resurgence works well too. I just wanted to stay away from reconstructionism, as I myself am not even remotely recon.

What are you, if you don't mind me asking?

Tigger

i believe in courage, truth, honor, fidelity, discipline, hospitality, self-reliance, industriousness and perseverance.

oh and drinking i love drinking
hate labels tho, far too much baggage with labels

Urizen

I meant what Gods, if any, you honoured. But I can't fault those ideals

Tigger

well that was Odins list but he's also into the rape pillage and murder thing which is a real turn off to me. old people often have some crazy ideas mixed in with sage stuff so i tend to pick and choose.

i certainly wouldn't call myself an odinist tho, as i said i don't really like labels

as nine words to live by i've never seen a better way

Urizen

Hmmm, I'm not as well versed in Asatru or other Germanic Neopaganism as I should be, similar challenges faced and all that. I don't know much beyond the basics. But that sounds basically like a compressed version of the Delphic Maxims, so I'm all for it

If I was to absolutely technical, I'd probably be a LaVeyan Discordian Hellenic Polytheist (there's a mouthful) since, while I honour the Hellenic Gods, I am also a Discordian. These mesh very well, especially since we have to deal with our Gods being ridiculed in pretty much every media form, pretty much all the time, and is surprisingly common. But then, I also find most of LaVeyan Satanism's philosophy to be very appealing, and that kinda fills around the edges, and it combines rather oddly with the Delphic Maxims. The result is a fairly unique take on the world, and I like it.

But back on topic. I have found literally two people who share that particular kind of ideology, and they're in Kentucky and Belgium, respectively.

I'm mostly curious how many people in Ireland honour the Greek Gods too, within or without of proper HP. I find it quite frustrating to be a solitary practitioner, especially considering how social the faith was back in the day. The internet community is amazing and invaluable, but it'd be nice to talk to people in person at some point too, ya know?

Tigger

everybody needs a bit of discord and a sense of humor about ones faith is needed in a world where poor Loki gets portrayed as a simpering beardless lacky (but he's been called worse)

Tabnabs

Tigger wrote: »

well that was Odins list but he's also into the rape pillage and murder thing which is a real turn off to me. old people often have some crazy ideas mixed in with sage stuff so i tend to pick and choose.

i certainly wouldn't call myself an odinist tho, as i said i don't really like labels

as nine words to live by i've never seen a better way

I'd love to hear more about this, could you tell me your source for this information?

Tigger

Tabnabs wrote: »

I'd love to hear more about this, could you tell me your source for this information?

your ironic tone dosen't really make me interested in justifying myself to you tbh.
you think that the followers of Odin that came to ireland yearas ago didn't rape pillage and murder. how do you think a invading force establishes itsself into a country, the vikings may not have had horns but they were still invaders.

Tabnabs

You clearly said

well that was Odins list but he's also into the rape pillage and murder thing

Where in the lore does it say this?

Tigger

Tabnabs wrote: »

You clearly said



Where in the lore does it say this?

Odin raped Rindr because her father pissed him off

He often seduces women by magic which is basically rape
He encourages war which causes death because his followers go to Valhalla and fill out his army there

Now mabey you are some form of Odenic evangalist or reborn something or other but I don't really care to be interrogated

If you disagree with what I'm saying then start a new thread, state your opinion rather than dragging this one off topic with questions that bear no relevance to what the op wants

hairyheretic

I'm sure we can keep things civil in our discussions.

Tabnabs

Tigger wrote: »

Now mabey you are some form of Odenic evangalist or reborn something or other but I don't really care to be interrogated

I'm neither an Odinist nor an evangelist, but your understanding of the lore is both basic and highly naive. Please don't go around throwing out statements such as the above posts without being able to back up (credibly) what you are espousing.

Tigger

what gives you the right to critisise me or tell me what to do

i see you on here never posting anythiung useful just jumping withg your sarcastic comments. People like you are the reason this forum gets three posts a week.

Morag

Tigger it's not unreasonable to ask for links or cite to the stories you've mentioned.
Most of the norse tales/myths come from the Edda, can you say to were you found such tales?

Tigger

its in the Gesta Danorum

Tabnabs

Tigger wrote: »

its in the Gesta Danorum

That't certainly one source for this tale, but there is an earlier source (Sigurðardrápa) that says "Seið Yggr til Rindar".

Saxo was writing for a christian sponsor who had little sympathy with the Aesir and Vanir. The demonisation of their actions and history was well and truely underway.

There is also the context of the story in a wider sense. And for this Alaric Hall's Ph.D. thesis ('The Meanings of Elf, and Elves, in Medieval England') gives an excellent and very readable explanation for the context http://www.alarichall.org.uk/phd.php

Tigger, your assertation that

Odins list but he's also into the rape pillage and murder thing

is both highly insulting and completely innacurate. If you go around posting this kind of inciteful comment, I'll happily criticise you and call you out on it every time.

Tigger

"Seið Yggr til Rindar".

what do you think that translates to? (and yes i know you speak Norwegian)
humor me tho

is this right or wrong ?

Ygrr is Odin
Seið means magiced
Rindar is Rindar
til is on or onto
so Odin magicked onto Rindr
why?


:eek:so he could have sex with her :eek:


is it acually your contention that seidr Ygr ril Rindr dosen't mean Odin used magic on Rindr and 9 months later they had a bouncing baby Vigalantie

Tigger

Tabnabs wrote: »

That't certainly one source for this tale, but there is an earlier source (Sigurðardrápa) that says "Seið Yggr til Rindar".

addressed in my previous post

Saxo was writing for a christian sponsor who had little sympathy with the Aesir and Vanir. The demonisation of their actions and history was well and truely underway.

thats you interperatation but to be fair i am perfectly entitled to use that text. if you don't like it then show me some decent reasons not to use it

Tigger, your assertation is both highly insulting and completely innacurate. If you go around posting this kind of inciteful comment, I'll happily criticise you and call you out on it every time.

ok on this i'll make a few points
You didn't call me out you made some inane comment thaat you were very interested in this and could i tell you more, its was deliberatly paatronising.
why can;'t you say something like

Hi Tigger you have obviously made the common error of reading Saxo who was nothing more than stooge writing anti Dane propagaanda for the Abbott of Christendom.
You should really not believe that stuff

then i could say something equally respectfull and at the end of the depate i could say

hey you are all right

in stead you don't take a position you just start patronising and sniping from the long grass

so consider me called out i'll de bate this with you and when we're done maabe i'll be happy to apoligise for insulting you "version" of "THE TERRIBLE ONE" maybe i'll think he's a hippy or something

Urizen

Ironically, I made the point recently in my online Hellenic group about faiths like Asatru and Kemeticism not having as much strife and discord as Hellenismos.

If nothing else, this thread has at least given me perspective. :P

Tabnabs

Tigger wrote: »

"Seið Yggr til Rindar".

what do you think that translates to? (and yes i know you speak Norwegian)
humor me tho

is this right or wrong ?

Ygrr is Odin
Seið means magiced
Rindar is Rindar
til is on or onto
so Odin magicked onto Rindr
why?


:eek:so he could have sex with her :eek:


is it acually your contention that seidr Ygr ril Rindr dosen't mean Odin used magic on Rindr and 9 months later they had a bouncing baby Vigalantie

Old Norse, but close enough

Your translation is correct. But WHY did he go to such enormous lengths to have sex with her? The Seið Yggr til Rindar was the last of a very long "wooing" of Rindar. It wasn't about the sex. It was about the consequences.

And what other examples and contexts are there of seidh being used by the aesir and or vanir on jotun or even other gods/esses? What is the significance of seidh in such situations and what did the seidh involve? These are the important lessons to learn from the texts.

Tigger

Tabnabs wrote: »

Old Norse, but close enough

Your translation is correct. But WHY did he go to such enormous lengths to have sex with her? The Seið Yggr til Rindar was the last of a very long "wooing" of Rindar. It wasn't about the sex. It was about the consequences.

And what other examples and contexts are there of seidh being used by the aesir and or vanir on jotun or even other gods/esses? What is the significance of seidh in such situations and what did the seidh involve? These are the important lessons to learn from the texts.

But she rejected him till he used magic yea or nay

I get he had to I get that there was a plan but in my opinion it's still rapey

Tabnabs

Tigger wrote: »

thats you interperatation but to be fair i am perfectly entitled to use that text. if you don't like it then show me some decent reasons not to use it

Yes you are entitled to use that text, of course, but a wider reading of the story shows how farsical and what a bastardisation it was of the original (or something closer to the original at least). Therefore you have to question the authenticity of the Saxo version and at the very least look to other sources and/or parrallel situations (Skirnir and Gerda as one example) before you can pass judgements or draw conclusions.

Tigger wrote: »

ok on this i'll make a few points
You didn't call me out you made some inane comment thaat you were very interested in this and could i tell you more, its was deliberatly paatronising.
why can;'t you say something like

And I believe you quote regarding Odin was deliberatly flippant, widely inaccurate and insulting to any heathen. Hence, I find it hard to show anyone throwing around such accusations any respect or credence.

Tigger wrote: »

Hi Tigger you have obviously made the common error of reading Saxo who was nothing more than stooge writing anti Dane propagaanda for the Abbott of Christendom.
You should really not believe that stuff

then i could say something equally respectfull and at the end of the depate i could say

hey you are all right

in stead you don't take a position you just start patronising and sniping from the long grass

Saxo was a christian writing for a christian audence. As was Snorre. And while there accounts must be read with a sceptical mind, their works should not be dissregarded. Saxo's work on the afterlife are regarded as some of the most complete and authentic on the heathen worldview. But, as with Snorre, their work must be read with a critical viewpoint.

Tigger wrote: »

so consider me called out i'll de bate this with you and when we're done maabe i'll be happy to apoligise for insulting you "version" of "THE TERRIBLE ONE" maybe i'll think he's a hippy or something

I'm not here for apologies or backslapping. If you make a bold statement, then you need to be able to back it up or any heathen may challenge your views.

hairyheretic

I think we can enjoy a debate without the need for incivility. If you want to challenge someones views, that's fine. If you want to ask for, or debate the accuracy of, source material, go for it.

I don't want to see it devolve into this

Tigger

hairyheretic wrote: »

I think we can enjoy a debate without the need for incivility. If you want to challenge someones views, that's fine. If you want to ask for, or debate the accuracy of, source material, go for it.

I don't want to see it devolve into this

I thought we were both doing much better today

Tigger

Tabnabs wrote: »

And I believe you quote regarding Odin was deliberatly flippant, widely inaccurate and insulting to any heathen. Hence, I find it hard to show anyone throwing around such accusations any respect or credence.

well at least we're talking now