More Bus Strikes

djpbarry

London Bus Workers are on strike again tomorrow, for those who don't know. They're also threatening strike action again later this month, just before the games start.

The reason? They want a bonus for working during the games. Now, I could be wrong, but I was of the impression that bus drivers in London are pretty well paid and they get pretty good benefits too, like a free TFL pass.

So I'm wondering why they feel justified in demanding a bonus for, well, just doing their job?

S.M.B.

Because Tube workers are getting a bonus, innit?

Fysh

Looks like the strike is suspended, and hopefully the issue will be resolved: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-18701645

If they were going to start giving bonus-type payments to some employees then it should've been obvious everyone would want it. It's hard to argue that train staff should get a bonus but not bus drivers, for example.

djpbarry

Fysh wrote: »

If they were going to start giving bonus-type payments to some employees then it should've been obvious everyone would want it. It's hard to argue that train staff should get a bonus but not bus drivers, for example.

Driving tubes and driving trains are two very different jobs. And besides, it's up to individual companies as to how they want to reward their staff.

Fysh

djpbarry wrote: »

Driving tubes and driving trains are two very different jobs. And besides, it's up to individual companies as to how they want to reward their staff.

Yep, and I can imagine that line going down really well at the negotiating table when Unite (or whatever other union was involved, if we're talking hypothetical situations) says "A number of other companies working in the same sector have been given bonus payments of circa £x as a bonus for working during the Olympic period"

My point was that the time at which to decide whether anyone should be getting a bonus for working during the Olympics was before any of them were agreed - because trying to do so afterwards (especially with all the talk about the apparently stonking amounts of cash in which the capital will be awash during the games) is clearly not going to work.

I tend to think that Bob Crow manages to alienate a lot of people when it comes to RMT, but in terms of the actual issues over which they strike I tend to agree with them.

Are you specifically asking someone on here who you think works as a London Bus driver why they think their actions are justified? Or were you just cheesed off at the disruption the strike would? Either option is a valid reason for posting, of course, but the Two Minutes' Hate thread is probably a better fit for venting frustration about strikes

Edited to add: For what it's worth, according to this page bus drivers can earn "up to £500 a week", which is about £26KPA - technically above the effective £25KPA minimum for living in London, but hardly amazing money in its own right. The benefits seem decent enough, transport perks for the driver +1 other and a decent annual leave allowance, but I don't think it puts them into "privileged bastard" territory by any means.

djpbarry

Fysh wrote: »

Are you specifically asking someone on here who you think works as a London Bus driver why they think their actions are justified? Or were you just cheesed off at the disruption the strike would?

I was just generally looking for the opinion’s of others – are people sympathetic towards the transport workers? Do they feel the strike is justified?

Fysh wrote: »

Edited to add: For what it's worth, according to this page bus drivers can earn "up to £500 a week", which is about £26KPA - technically above the effective £25KPA minimum for living in London, but hardly amazing money in its own right.

I’m highly sceptical of that figure – I find it very hard to believe that anyone would make a career out of driving buses if £26K was the absolute maximum they could earn in London. As you say, that’s only just above the theoretical threshold that makes living/working in London feasible.

Fysh

djpbarry wrote: »

I’m highly sceptical of that figure – I find it very hard to believe that anyone would make a career out of driving buses if £26K was the absolute maximum they could earn in London. As you say, that’s only just above the theoretical threshold that makes living/working in London feasible.

I understand your scepticism, but so far it's the only actual sourced number I can find. Payscale.com reckons it's not far off either, speculating that hourly rates are unlikely to go far north of £10/hour.

A number of large and high-profile organisations in London have no qualms whatsoever about paying crap money to their staff. When I first moved here I narrowly avoided bursting out laughing at someone who interviewed me for a remote tech support role servicing a corporate finance customer and offered a starting salary of about £18K + the most feeble benefits package I've ever heard of. The university where I work has an ongoing dispute over its use of outsourced cleaning services on record as paying wages below the London Living Wage despite the university pledge to ensure that all staff are paid at least the LLW rate.

If you didn't catch it, I would recommend keeping an eye out for re-runs of The Tube - it's quite eye-opening in terms of showing just what TFL & other public transport staff deal with on a daily basis.

djpbarry

Fysh wrote: »

I understand your scepticism, but so far it's the only actual sourced number I can find.

I know, I’ve tried to find some figures and can’t come up with anything, which, to be honest, only adds to my scepticism. You think Unite would be emphasising how little drivers make in order to gain public support for their cause.

Fysh wrote: »

A number of large and high-profile organisations in London have no qualms whatsoever about paying crap money to their staff. When I first moved here I narrowly avoided bursting out laughing at someone who interviewed me for a remote tech support role servicing a corporate finance customer and offered a starting salary of about £18K + the most feeble benefits package I've ever heard of. The university where I work has an ongoing dispute over its use of outsourced cleaning services on record as paying wages below the London Living Wage despite the university pledge to ensure that all staff are paid at least the LLW rate.

Oh I’m well aware of some of the extremely low salaries that a lot of people in London (and the wider UK) are trying to get by on. It’s one of the main reasons I find all this talk of “austerity” back home so unpalatable.

Fysh wrote: »

If you didn't catch it, I would recommend keeping an eye out for re-runs of [a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tube_(2012_TV_series)"]The Tube[/url] - it's quite eye-opening in terms of showing just what TFL & other public transport staff deal with on a daily basis.

Oh don’t get me wrong, I am well aware of what bus drivers in particular have to put up with – my Dad worked for Dublin Bus all his life - and I am not arguing that they should not be well compensated. However, there is a limit to my sympathy.

Head The Wall

I don't understand why bus or tube workers are getting a bonus at all. I presume if they work extra hours they will get paid for that and also a bus can only hold so many passengers and both drivers rarely interact with the passengers.

They are basically just doing their job which they get paid for. Does a barman get paid a higher hourly rate when the bar is busy, I don't think so

Fysh

djpbarry wrote: »

I know, I’ve tried to find some figures and can’t come up with anything, which, to be honest, only adds to my scepticism. You think Unite would be emphasising how little drivers make in order to gain public support for their cause.

Bear in mind that the median salary in 2011 was about £26,200 according to the Office of National Statistics. So while it's hardly amazing money it's still not terrible, particularly given the benefits package.

Unite have a lot of members on the lower end of the income scale, especially when you take into account some of the frankly ludicrous salaries that can be commonplace in London, so as a rule of thumb if Unite are the union involved you can bet that the people being represented aren't exactly flush.

Consider that [urlhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/8928786/Can-you-live-on-the-average-salary.html]this article[/url] says average pay for train drivers is £41,000. Unfortunately it doesn't cite its source, but it certainly puts London TFL salaries in context.

Head The Wall wrote: »

I don't understand why bus or tube workers are getting a bonus at all. I presume if they work extra hours they will get paid for that and also a bus can only hold so many passengers and both drivers rarely interact with the passengers.

They are basically just doing their job which they get paid for. Does a barman get paid a higher hourly rate when the bar is busy, I don't think so

I'm a bit confused as to how it seemed a good idea to pay anyone a bonus for working normally through the Olympics, but tbh once they've started paying some people a bonus (and admitting that they can find money to do so in the budget) then it's very difficult to justify paying some companies but not others.