Six cylinder diesels

PauloMN

Was looking at some figures for mpg and emissions from a new A6 with a 3.0 TDi engine, and both are pretty impressive (like over 50mpg average and road tax band . I've driven a few 6 cylinder cars in the past - both petrol and diesel - and I've always promised myself one, but when it came to the crunch, horrendous running costs always ruled it out.

So if you were recommending a post '08 six cylinder diesel with acceptable running costs, what would it be? I'm thinking I might be waiting a while to get one second hand as there seems to have been improvements in later '09/'10 big diesels, but I'd be interested to hear opinions. Bear in mind I don't do (can't afford) new cars, so I typically look for a 3 or 4 year old car.

Current car is A4 1.8T.

ShadowHearth

It all boils down to one thing: do you need diesel or no. Do you do big millage or not.
50+++ mpg on those big engined turbo diesels is very optimistic. Even if you achieve that figure, ten what's the point of having a powerfull car?

I don't really see a big point in huge engine diesels. Diesels are the choice when you need a car to do huge millage. Having a diesel engine which is **** at good mpg is sort of "you doing it wrong". Thing. Those are not pushing out great power too anyway.

tossy

Plus from my experience of big engined diesels is that when you push them on the absolutely drink diesel,i'm talking hole in the bucket stuff!

TheBazman

From personal experience I'd recommend a 535d - you wont get mpg but you can get close to 40mpg. Drive as aggressive as you like and you'll still get around 30mpg. Okay you may say 30mpg isnt a lot for a diesel - but that's very
aggressive driving and lots of fun:D

PauloMN

Thanks all.

I didn't really think that the "do you need a diesel" thing really held true anymore, given that diesels aren't really any more expensive than petrols these days, and can be cheaper to tax and run when compared with a petrol equivalent. I do around 12k miles per year.

The idea is not to get the most frugal car, it's really the idea of having a six cylinder engine under the bonnet - any I've driven I've really liked, be they petrol or diesel. It's about having something with acceptable running costs while having the smoothness of a 6 cyl. There's no way I could afford to run a big engined petrol - it's just I noticed that the big 3 litre TDi in the A6 (and I'm sure similar big diesels in other cars) have become very affordable in terms of running costs (fuel and tax).

Not really interested in driving the crap out of my car, I manage 40mpg in my petrol A4 at the moment which show how I drive at the moment! A six cylinder for me would be a smooth cruiser that also sounds nice as well.

PauloMN

TheBazman wrote: »

From personal experience I'd recommend a 535d - you wont get mpg but you can get close to 40mpg. Drive as aggressive as you like and you'll still get around 30mpg. Okay you may say 30mpg isnt a lot for a diesel - but that's very
aggressive driving and lots of fun:D

I drove a 730D in Germany and loved it, the engine probably could have been a little bigger in the tank that is the 7 series, but I thought it would be really nicely matched in the 5 series.

I loved the engine though, very smooth and nice sounds.

Anan1

PauloMN wrote: »

Thanks all.

I didn't really think that the "do you need a diesel" thing really held true anymore, given that diesels aren't really any more expensive than petrols these days, and can be cheaper to tax and run when compared with a petrol equivalent. I do around 12k miles per year.

The idea is not to get the most frugal car, it's really the idea of having a six cylinder engine under the bonnet - any I've driven I've really liked, be they petrol or diesel. It's about having something with acceptable running costs while having the smoothness of a 6 cyl. There's no way I could afford to run a big engined petrol - it's just I noticed that the big 3 litre TDi in the A6 (and I'm sure similar big diesels in other cars) have become very affordable in terms of running costs (fuel and tax).

Not really interested in driving the crap out of my car, I manage 40mpg in my petrol A4 at the moment which show how I drive at the moment! A six cylinder for me would be a smooth cruiser that also sounds nice as well.

Even a good four cylinder petrol will be smoother & nicer than a six cylinder diesel, and a six cylinder petrol will be much nicer and perhaps cheaper to own.

ShadowHearth

PauloMN wrote: »

Thanks all.

I didn't really think that the "do you need a diesel" thing really held true anymore, given that diesels aren't really any more expensive than petrols these days, and can be cheaper to tax and run when compared with a petrol equivalent. I do around 12k miles per year.

The idea is not to get the most frugal car, it's really the idea of having a six cylinder engine under the bonnet - any I've driven I've really liked, be they petrol or diesel. It's about having something with acceptable running costs while having the smoothness of a 6 cyl. There's no way I could afford to run a big engined petrol - it's just I noticed that the big 3 litre TDi in the A6 (and I'm sure similar big diesels in other cars) have become very affordable in terms of running costs (fuel and tax).

Not really interested in driving the crap out of my car, I manage 40mpg in my petrol A4 at the moment which show how I drive at the moment! A six cylinder for me would be a smooth cruiser that also sounds nice as well.

you want a the joy of 6 cylinders and you are looking at diesel 6 cylinders...
if you can afford the newer car post 08, and tax does matter then get a bmw 325 or 525. its still in low bracket and proper 6 cyl petrol engine.

franksm

Yeah ^^

Speaking of 525s and if you still want diesel: the old BMW 2.5TDS engine is as sweet as a nut. Lovely little 'buzz' of a noise off it, and it'll do mid 30s MPG without blinking - 45 if you treat it nice

Had an Omega with that engine - lovely car, but the engine made it.

PauloMN

Six cylinder petrols are just out of the question really I would think, too much to tax and too much to fuel. It's only because I've seen the newer diesels coming into the low tax bands that my interest has been raised tbh. Yeah I'd love a big petrol but it isn't going to happen. Totally disagree that a 4 cylinder petrol sounds/runs better than a 6 cylinder diesel, but I guess that's a matter of opinion. They might not sound as good as 6 cyl petrols, but they still have a sweet hum!

What tax bracket would say an '08 325/525 petrol be in?

mickdw

I think the large bmw petrols got down into the €650 tax bracket in 08 which was impressive considering they would have been €1600 previously.

I agree that 6 cylinder diesels do sound quite nice. Nothing wrong with the sound out of a mercedes cls320 cdi for example. I dont know a 4 cylinder anything that compares although 6 cylinder petrols are the business.

alanmc

If I was forced to buy a large engine diesel (and I'd have to be forced), I'd go for a Jag XF. I drove a 2.7 V6 and it was quite nice.

It'd have to come with a free desert island, though, for me to give up my petrol V6. And if I'm honest, I'd probably choose a decent I4 over any diesel.

bazz26

OP, if you are thinking of a post 08 big diesel car that is cheap to tax and fuel then remember that these cars still cost a premium over their similar petrol models. The bit you save on tax and fuel is tiny compared to the premium you pay for the diesel car itself. In this country the way it works is that cars that are cheap to run are usually dear to buy and vice versa.

Here is a prime example: Low mileage 2008 BMW 523i car for under €15k that still only costs €677 to tax.

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=14513402049168460

Try finding a similar 6 cylinder diesel 5 Series for anywhere near that money. The difference will buy you alot of petrol. Also if you are only doing 12k miles a year and don't drive hard I don't see how fuel type becomes a deciding factor.

George Dalton

Slightly OT but the fuel consumption figures being quoted by manufacturers for new cars being sold today are pure fantasy for anyone who isn't 100% focused on driving for economy. 50mpg in a 3.0TDI A6 is just not something you will see in a real world driving environment. If I had one of them I seriously doubt I would see the right side of 35MPG.

This wasn't the case back in the days when the manufacturers weren't under such pressure to generate low CO2 figures. My own car is a 2000 reg Audi S4 2.7 V6 turbo petrol which had a quoted average MPG of 24.8 when new. Mine actually averages 25.6.

ofcork

I remember clarkson on top gear got 800 miles out of a 4 litre A8 a few years ago by driving carefully.

bladespin

ofcork wrote: »

I remember clarkson on top gear got 800 miles out of a 4 litre A8 a few years ago by driving carefully.

It worked out around 44 mpg, was on Dave recently (love that channel )

joe 77

Has anyone owned / ran either a BMW 335d or 535d as their daily driver ? What are they like to live with ? What kind of real world MPG could you expect from one ? 06 - 07 335d are dropping nicely in value and are affordable now to the likes of me !!

conzy

Anan1 wrote: »

Even a good four cylinder petrol will be smoother & nicer than a six cylinder diese

This is not true.

You can balance a 2 euro coin on its edge on an E90 330d engine, i doubt you can do the same with many 4 cylinder petrols

PauloMN

bazz26 wrote: »

OP, if you are thinking of a post 08 big diesel car that is cheap to tax and fuel then remember that these cars still cost a premium over their similar petrol models. The bit you save on tax and fuel is tiny compared to the premium you pay for the diesel car itself. In this country the way it works is that cars that are cheap to run are usually dear to buy and vice versa.

Here is a prime example: Low mileage 2008 BMW 523i car for under €15k that still only costs €677 to tax.

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=14513402049168460

Try finding a similar 6 cylinder diesel 5 Series for anywhere near that money. The difference will buy you alot of petrol. Also if you are only doing 12k miles a year and don't drive hard I don't see how fuel type becomes a deciding factor.

It's certainly tempting alright, probably closer in financial terms than I would have thought. I still think something like a 523i would cost me the guts of an extra €1000 per annum in fuel costs alone, based on my mileage of 12k miles and current fuel prices, and approx. 35mpg in the petrol compared to the approx. 50mpg in the diesel. Given I'd be keeping the car for at least 5 years, there's €5k to take into account. This doesn't take road tax into account either.

unkel

ofcork wrote: »

I remember clarkson on top gear got 800 miles out of a 4 litre A8 a few years ago by driving carefully.

That was a diesel though. 40MPG with careful driving in a diesel (even a big heavy diesel) is not that impressive imho

Viper_JB

joe 77 wrote: »

Has anyone owned / ran either a BMW 335d or 535d as their daily driver ? What are they like to live with ? What kind of real world MPG could you expect from one ? 06 - 07 335d are dropping nicely in value and are affordable now to the likes of me !!

I bought a 2005 535D in the last few month, liking it so far, tax is a killer @ €1390 but I knew that before I bought it. I'd say I'd average about early 40's in terms of mpg, depending on how I'm driving it. For the longer journeys crusing at 120 it'll get high 40's to low 50's mpg. For my daily commute in and out of work, some town driving mixed with some country roads, talking about low to mid 30's, considering the horse power on tap I'd consider it as good value motoring anyways .

unkel

PauloMN wrote: »

It's certainly tempting alright, probably closer in financial terms than I would have thought. I still think something like a 523i would cost me the guts of an extra €1000 per annum in fuel costs alone, based on my mileage of 12k miles and current fuel prices, and approx. 35mpg in the petrol compared to the approx. 50mpg in the diesel. Given I'd be keeping the car for at least 5 years, there's €5k to take into account. This doesn't take road tax into account either.

Are you buying new or second hand? If second hand, a few year old 6 pot 5-series petrol is thousands cheaper to buy than a diesel. That money in your pocket up front. Pays for a lot of fuel.

That said, with your mileage and slightly more realistic consumption figures of 45MPG for diesel and 30MPG for petrol, the latter would indeed cost you over a grand more in fuel per year

Maybe, just maybe the €40-60 per month the petrol would cost you extra over the ownership of the car (just making this figure up but I doubt it is far off) is worth the extra refinement / comfort / quietness / pleasure?

joe 77

Viper_JB wrote: »

I bought a 2005 535D in the last few month, liking it so far, tax is a killer @ €1390 but I knew that before I bought it. I'd say I'd average about early 40's in terms of mpg, depending on how I'm driving it. For the longer journeys crusing at 120 it'll get high 40's to low 50's mpg. For my daily commute in and out of work, some town driving mixed with some country roads, talking about low to mid 30's, considering the horse power on tap I'd consider it as good value motoring anyways .

Tax is defo off putting but if i could get 40mpg I'd be prepared to suffer the tax, I'm currently driving a 520d , its remapped to 200 bhp, its a very nice drive and the remap totally transformed it, but I have it over 2 years now and I'm getting itchy feet !!

Anan1

conzymaher wrote: »

This is not true.

You can balance a 2 euro coin on its edge on an E90 330d engine, i doubt you can do the same with many 4 cylinder petrols

I don't think so, unless by 'balance' you mean wedge it into a slot in the engine cover?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNnzrWaNQYg

Diesels have come a long way but, in terms of pure refinement, they're not there yet.

WacoKid

I own a 525i and have driven a few 530d's. The latter is a great all round package but as I don't do the miles I ma happy to run the 6 cyclinder petrol. It is much more refined and a quieter drive but if I was offered a 530d i'd not exactly say no.

I got the 525i for about 6k less than the equivlent 520d at the time so you do pay a premium for the diesel. Bit of maths to be done before deciding as with one you pay at the pumps and the other you pay on the forecourt.

Mycroft H

ShadowHearth wrote: »

I don't really see a big point in huge engine diesels. Diesels are the choice when you need a car to do huge millage. Having a diesel engine which is **** at good mpg is sort of "you doing it wrong". Thing. Those are not pushing out great power too anyway.

Not pushing out great power? Rubbish. Enough tourque to pull trees out of the ground.

Are people not allowed a powerful (and sort of economical) car?

Anan1

'and that it's so fast at the top end they've had to peg it back to 155..' - That man really is a clown.

Mycroft H

Anan1 wrote: »

'and that it's so fast at the top end they've had to peg it back to 155..' - That man really is a clown.

Its been clocked by auto express at nearly 170mph. Clarkson was right.

..... From there on, we had to rely on the digital GPS readout – and we couldn’t quite believe what we were seeing. Towards the end of the first lap we clocked nearly 170mph

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/217497/bmw_535d.html

Silly speeds from a 5 door saloon diesel.

Anan1

BX 19 wrote: »

Its been clocked by auto express at nearly 170mph. Clarkson was right.

The Germans have been limiting many of their cars to 250km/h for decades, there's nothing special in that sense about the 535d.

Leonard Hofstadter

BX 19 wrote: »

Its been clocked by auto express at nearly 170mph. Clarkson was right.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/217497/bmw_535d.html

Silly speeds from a 5 door saloon diesel.

Well let's see, the car was remapped (up to 344 bhp), has lightweight M6 wheels and a few other modifications (including removing the speed limiter) as well.

But why let the facts get in the way of the totally incorrect statement that a standard 535d can do 170 mph:rolleyes:?

A stock 535d is nowhere near as fast as the 545i for example - the Top Gear video of the two cars pulling away from rest shows this very well (which requires no skill whatsoever - all you've got to do is floor the accelerator).

TheBazman

captainspeed wrote: »

But why let the facts get in the way of the totally incorrect statement that a standard 535d can do 170 mph:rolleyes:?

.

I've done north of 150 in a standard 535d so with the limiter removed I think 170 is achievable

ShadowHearth

bmw535d could tell you all about "bmw 535d"*




*:p

Leonard Hofstadter

TheBazman wrote: »

I've done north of 150 in a standard 535d so with the limiter removed I think 170 is achievable

Well they are limited to 155, so they should be able to hit 150 mph without any problems;)!

I don't deny that they're a fast car (I've been in a 530d and that's fast and obviously a 535d is a good bit quicker than that car is), it's just that they're not quite as fast as some of their fanbois claim they are, plus the fact that a 545i is some bit quicker than a stock 535d:).

Viper_JB

captainspeed wrote: »

Well they are limited to 155, so they should be able to hit 150 mph without any problems;)!

I don't deny that they're a fast car (I've been in a 530d and that's fast and obviously a 535d is a good bit quicker than that car is), it's just that they're not quite as fast as some of their fanbois claim they are, plus the fact that a 545i is some bit quicker than a stock 535d:).

Not exactly a 1 to 1 comparison though, as in the 535D would be faster and have a lot more Torque then the 535i. Don't think I seen anyone saying either are rocket ships. But for how efficent he engine is and the power it produces, it'd be hard to find a better trade off and still probably faster then 90% of the - mainly euro minis out there on Irish roads.