Mature Student, King's Inns Diploma in Legal Studies...

HellFireClub

Hi Folks,

Looking at maybe doing this course, just saw it on: http://www.kingsinns.ie/

Am thinking of a major career change and this does interest me, if I understand it correctly, it's a 2-year full-time course, if successfully completed, lets you attend the 1 year Barrister at Law degree course, via an entrance exam.

I'm looking at this as a three year project with a view to becoming a practicing barrister. I haven't decided on this path yet, I'm looking at a few different options, but I have committed to changing my career direction completely, down to serious mistakes I made in my younger years in relation to the career path chosen at the time, and this area is something that genuinely has always really interested me, only for the fact that I didn't have the discipline in younger years to set myself up for such a career in terms of my Leaving Cert, or to go down this road as an undergraduate.

So I suppose I'm looking for any advice at all in relation to studying and working as a barrister, and in particular studying at the King's Inns...

Thanks in advance for any posts... :cool:

lawfilly

There are loads of posts on the KI Dip and degree in this forum if you do a search. There is also info on the website.

But a couple of points from a fellow Dip student:

It is a part-time course at night-time and alternative Saturday mornings but the work load is that of a full-time student!
7 essays of 2500-3500 words in length and 7 exams both years of the Diploma. This is on top of optional homework and tutorial work, which you really need to do to maximize your learning.

You have to work hard. In general, the hours can feel long, you don't get much in the way of holidays (Two weeks at Christmas, two at Easter), the course is taught well, the manuals are good and it can be very social and fun (depending, of course, on your fellow classmates!!)
Its for those who want a fast track law degree or want to become a barrister! Its not really a 'hobby' course!
I love it and really would not hesitate to recommend it.

Procrastastudy

2 years Dip + 1 Year Degree + 2 years deviling so thats 5...

Then around 5+ more making very little money paying huge fees to the Law Library.

Not ment to put you off - do lots of reseach (using the search function here is a start) to make sure you know what you're getting yourself into.

You'll have some great company though. I've encountered less than 20 barristers in my short time (a year into a law degree) and every single one of them have been inteligent, thought provoking and above all very generous with their time. I even include some of the people here :P

Hippo

I'll echo Lawfilly's sentiments. I've just finished the diploma and it's a genuinely full-time commitment; very enjoyable (most of the time) but you're definitely going to have to put the hours in. You've been warned!

HellFireClub

Thanks for the replies folks, I don't worry about my ability to work hard at this, should I do pursue it, and to apply myself to the course, I do worry about "fitting in" though! I've studied previously after I left school but in a class where we were all the same age. some time after that, I went back to 3rd level & started a course as a mature student (I was the only lad my age in the class, I was around 27 at the time, am 35 now), and I really noticed a huge difference fitting in with a load of kids just out of 6th year... Does this make any sense in relation to the current thread discussion?

So that's the only worry I have really, fitting in?!? Has anyone else had these kind of worries?

HellFireClub

Also, are there summer holidays in between year 1 & year 2?!?

Procrastastudy

At 35 you might be a bit young!

There will be people there of all ages. Make sure you do some mooting and debating so I can meet you. I'm 32 fyi.

KI teams are always a bit disapointing on the Debating side :eek:

Also the BL is well respected in quite a few jobs outside of being a barrister so dont get fixated on the wig and cape.

Tom Young

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

Also the BL is well respected in quite a few jobs outside of being a barrister so dont get fixated on the wig and cape.

Gown.

Hippo

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

At 35 you might be a bit young!

This.

I am way, way past 35 and I was far from the oldest in the class. There's an excellent mix.

Tom Young

Hippo wrote: »

This.

I am way, way past 35 and I was far from the oldest in the class. There's an excellent mix.

Singletons from all over Ireland .... so just call now ..... 1550 ....

Procrastastudy

I should have also mentioned the humour...

HellFireClub

I've just looked at the online application form, for a mature student with a non-degree qualification, which is the bracket that I fall into...

I'm a bit surprised that they appear to put such a heavy emphasis on the Leaving Cert, something that I didn't really do well in at all, although I went on to do a trade apprenticeship immediately after the Leaving Cert and then studied full time for 3 years in DIT Bolton Street on the back of my apprenticeship qualification, getting a diploma in management from there. How do they access applications does anyone know?

Also, the links for the "Academic Dates" webpage appears to not be working, so when does the year start?!?

http://www.kingsinns.ie/website/prospective_students/diploma/diploma.htm

HellFireClub

I thought this was a day time course but it's actually an evening course and every second Saturday? Also, are there summer holidays?

Hippo

Year follows the normal academic/legal terms, so yes, summer holidays.

lawfilly

I'm due back the 24th of September so thats when it will start.

The hours are 5.45 - 8pm Monday to Thursday ( you'll be in until 9pm on Thursday for tutorials)
Then every second Saturday morning 9.30 -12.45ish

Sometimes we have to do Friday if there is a public holiday and we miss Monday

Most of the Dip year will be from 25 up so dont worry about age!! Fitting in is easy and there will be plenty of good nights in the Kings Inn!!

HellFireClub

It's a big step for anyone, given the costs involved, I see from the website you have to apply by May 31st or there is a late application date mentioned of 9th July. Hmmm, decisions decisions...

NoQuarter

Tom Young wrote: »

Gown.

I am single handedly going to change the whole profession to make them call it a cape. I see its already worked on GCDlawstudent, now Im going to keep dropping it in everywhere I can until my work here is done.

Tom Young

NoQuarter wrote: »

I am single handedly going to change the whole profession to make them call it a cape. I see its already worked on GCDlawstudent, now Im going to keep dropping it in everywhere I can until my work here is done.

"The following are the correct forms of dress and address when practicing at the Bar, any deviation shall result in a permanent ban from the Legal Discussion Forum."

Really?

NoQuarter

Tom Young wrote: »

Really?

I will be the sacrificial lamb. Its a worthy cause. Tom, lets be honest here, would you rather go to work in a gown or a cape? Exactly.

Tom Young

It's a trick question .... Gown for weekdays and cape at weekends?

HellFireClub

lawfilly wrote: »

I'm due back the 24th of September so thats when it will start.

The hours are 5.45 - 8pm Monday to Thursday ( you'll be in until 9pm on Thursday for tutorials)
Then every second Saturday morning 9.30 -12.45ish

Sometimes we have to do Friday if there is a public holiday and we miss Monday

Most of the Dip year will be from 25 up so dont worry about age!! Fitting in is easy and there will be plenty of good nights in the Kings Inn!!

So you start back at the end of Sept, when does the academic year end?

NoQuarter

HellFireClub wrote: »

So you start back at the end of Sept, when does the academic year end?

Cant help with the diploma but the degree is 4th of October until June 1st. Entrance exams are in August.

lawfilly

This year classes ended the 4th of May. Our exams began on the 15th of May and the last one was the 25th of May....Now we have 4 lovely months off safe in the knowledge we've passed!!

lawfilly

Tom Young wrote: »

It's a trick question .... Gown for weekdays and cape at weekends?

Dress for the job you want not the job you have!!

Procrastastudy

I did that.

I can tell you a disciplinary meeting dressed as bat man was embarrasing.

HellFireClub

I'm in 2 minds as to whether to apply for the late application 9th July deadline, decisions decisions...

lawfilly

It's easy!! How bad do you want it!!!??

NoQuarter

HellFireClub wrote: »

I'm in 2 minds as to whether to apply for the late application 9th July deadline, decisions decisions...

To be perfectly honest, if youre "in two minds" as to whether to embark on a complete career change and a 3 year course and then 2 further years deviling, you shouldnt do it just yet. Not until you know a lot more, have worked out finances (did you know the degree year costs 13,000 alone?) and understand exactly the sacrifices to be made and what exactly you will get back in return.

HellFireClub

NoQuarter wrote: »

HellFireClub wrote: »

I'm in 2 minds as to whether to apply for the late application 9th July deadline, decisions decisions...

To be perfectly honest, if youre "in two minds" as to whether to embark on a complete career change and a 3 year course and then 2 further years deviling, you shouldnt do it just yet. Not until you know a lot more, have worked out finances (did you know the degree year costs 13,000 alone?) and understand exactly the sacrifices to be made and what exactly you will get back in return.

Yeah I can see it's a big commitment that goes well beyond the 3 years that would need to be committed to the diploma and the degree. The only concerns I have about going at it, are down to aspects that are actually not related to the course at all, but more to do with fitting in. I don't come from the typical "socio-economic" background that you'd associate with those studying law, this must sound like sheer ignorance on my part but I do worry about ending up on a course full of folks who I have nothing in common with & who would basically annoy the fu*k out of me. In my defence, I did make the mistake before of going at a degree where I was in my late 20's and everyone else in the class was 18 (+\- one year), and I found it to be a very isolating experience, as I had nothing in common with anyone else in the class and I found that this really became a huge issue when it came to things like study groups outside of lectures, working on assignments, lab reports, etc.

Hippo

The socio-economic background of those in my year was mainly, though far from exclusively, middle class. This will usually be the case in practice so if you're thinking of a career in law it's probably best to get used to the idea. Having said that, as has been pointed out, the age profile of students means that there's a little more maturity around than would be the case with the usual undergraduate course, so there tend to be fewer complete clods

HellFireClub

I'm just gonna throw it out there as opposed to beating about the bush with it. I'm from a middle class background myself but I'd be worried that I'd find myself in an environment where I'd be surrounded with what could best be described as a large herd of "affected" people, with elitest mentalities, superior attitudes, condescending social opinions, etc. This must sound rediculous but I spent all last week down in the High Court and in fairness to myself, there seemed to be a lot of "la-la land" type accents circulating amongst barristers who I heard speaking...

I know, I know, surely a decision on something like this is not going to come down to these kind of considerations, but I am in the 35th year of my life and I genuinely can't afford to go putting time (and good money), into something that may not actually be for me.

I'm just wondering did anyone else have these kind of worries before engaging with this course and how it played out in the end? Surely I'm not the first person to have these worries...

Tom Young

HellFireClub wrote: »

I'm just gonna throw it out there as opposed to beating about the bush with it. I'm from a middle class background myself but I'd be worried that I'd find myself in an environment where I'd be surrounded with what could best be described as a large herd of "affected" people, with elitest mentalities, superior attitudes, condescending social opinions, etc. This must sound rediculous but I spent all last week down in the High Court and in fairness to myself, there seemed to be a lot of "la-la land" type accents circulating amongst barristers who I heard speaking...

I know, I know, surely a decision on something like this is not going to come down to these kind of considerations, but I am in the 35th year of my life and I genuinely can't afford to go putting time (and good money), into something that may not actually be for me.

I'm just wondering did anyone else have these kind of worries before engaging with this course and how it played out in the end? Surely I'm not the first person to have these worries...

You're from a middle class background yourself cogito ergo sum.

No, some of the nut balls that behave in that manner are either extremely junior or just purely mad. Happens in most professions.

Procrastastudy

I know of one JC who speaks with a very posh Dublin accent and is one of the nicest people you could ever meet. Some of these guys are exceptionally intelligent and articulate - thats not a superior attitude it's just how it is.

I love that Billy Connelly routine about how the very poor and the very wealthly get on in Glasgow because they're all mad. Its the middle class Polo-neck wearing, volvo driving insecure... anyways.

The KI has a reputation even I'm aware of - of beinging very inclusive. Thats assuming you have the fee of course. I've heard of bus drivers, union reps and all sorts of people going through there. As it should be in a group of people working in the court system.

Hippo

HellFireClub wrote: »

I'm just gonna throw it out there as opposed to beating about the bush with it. I'm from a middle class background myself but I'd be worried that I'd find myself in an environment where I'd be surrounded with what could best be described as a large herd of "affected" people, with elitest mentalities, superior attitudes, condescending social opinions, etc. This must sound rediculous but I spent all last week down in the High Court and in fairness to myself, there seemed to be a lot of "la-la land" type accents circulating amongst barristers who I heard speaking...

There are plenty of barristers who'd drive you mad with their pretentions and attitudes, but equally the profession has lots of articulate, interesting, socially-concerned people with a broad range of interests. Much like any other profession really. I'm not sure what else there is to say on the matter.

NoQuarter

Sent you a PM HellFireClub.

johnnyskeleton

HellFireClub wrote: »

I'm just gonna throw it out there as opposed to beating about the bush with it. I'm from a middle class background myself but I'd be worried that I'd find myself in an environment where I'd be surrounded with what could best be described as a large herd of "affected" people, with elitest mentalities, superior attitudes, condescending social opinions, etc. This must sound rediculous but I spent all last week down in the High Court and in fairness to myself, there seemed to be a lot of "la-la land" type accents circulating amongst barristers who I heard speaking...

Don't worry, if your monocle falls into the pea soup at dining I'm sure your valet can fish it out for you. Otherwise, all you need to know is to give him a good thrashing with your cane to confound his insolence.

LordSinclair

Sorry for raking up an old thread people, am applying to start the KI diploma course this year, also have a job that is fairly flexible in terms of fitting in with this course, (self employed). Just wondering could anyone who is currently studying this course, preferably in the 1st year, maybe give me an idea of a typical week? I mean, what time the classes/lectures start in the evening, what time they end, how many evenings a week, how does it work at the weekend, etc?

Haven't been accepted yet obviously, am at the application stage, gathering results of previous academic achievements, etc. Any tips of advice or thoughts, would be much appreciated!

Procrastastudy

The academic year begins in mid-September and ends in May. It comprises up to 30 weeks of lectures
and tutorials with vacations at Christmas and Easter and ends with the annual examinations. Lectures and
tutorials usually take place on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday evenings and on alternate Saturday
mornings. Attendance is compulsory.

From the brochure on the website. Quite a lot of info on the website.

LordSinclair

Procrastastudy wrote: »

The academic year begins in mid-September and ends in May. It comprises up to 30 weeks of lectures
and tutorials with vacations at Christmas and Easter and ends with the annual examinations. Lectures and
tutorials usually take place on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday evenings and on alternate Saturday
mornings. Attendance is compulsory.

From the brochure on the website. Quite a lot of info on the website.

Yeah, the website doesn't give the info I'm looking for, hence why I'm asking here on the forum. For example, do lectures start at 6PM, 7PM, 8PM? How many lectures per evening? What time to lectures end in the evening?

johnnyskeleton

Kudos for actually doing a search instead of starting a new thread.

lawfilly

They start at 5.45pm and end at 8pm on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday.
On Thursday, tutorial night they start at 5.45pm and end at 9pm

Every second Saturday starts at 9.30am and ends at 12.45pm.

Exams start around the 3rd week of may and last 2 weeks. You will have one exam at Christmas.

KI supply you with a manual for each course.

LordSinclair

Hi folks, am in the process of applying for a place in the Kings Inn's next year. The route I'm applying for is as a mature student, I don't have a degree so I can't apply as a degree applicant, but have a DIT Certificate & Diploma in a business field which I'm hoping will get me over the bar in terms of whatever entry criteria they apply to prospective mature students.

I see here though that it states that you have to provide an original copy of your leaving cert results, I did my LC back in 1994 and wouldn't know where to look for the certificate that I was given at the time. Just wondering has anyone who is currently studying on this course, found themselves having to get onto the Dept of Education to get reissued with their LC certificate?

LordSinclair

Just updating this thread, found my answer here:

https://www.examinations.ie/index.php?l=en&mc=ca&sc=co

Kapellmeister

Hi all..

Just resurrecting this thread as I am considering it mainly as an added skill to bring to the business world I work in. There are a lot of mixed signals with regards being able to do it while working full time. Can anyone who did it while working let me know how do-able it is? Im not overly worried having done undergraduate and postgraduate before.
Thanks

benway

My OH did it, she reckons it's more than manageable so long as your employer is reasonably understanding about having to be gone from the workplace to make it in time for lectures.

Her view is that it just means long days with the occasional Saturday morning thrown into the mix - says the modular BL degree is much worse, 9 (sharp!) - 5.15 Saturdays and Sundays every second week.

Certainly, plenty of people, actually the overwhelming majority who the course afaik, work full time as well as attending the Inns for the Diploma. Can only really see it being an issue if you need to travel in to make lectures - note that 90% attendance is strictly required to pass.

RoysKeen

Hello,

I'm wondering how mature candidates are decided on. The application is sparse on information required.

I'm thinking of applying as a mature student but I don't want to get my hopes up.

Thanks in advance

Tom Young

Complete form and send on time; have fees paid and to hand on time and save for some serious issue pre-disclosed by or to you, you'll be in.

kiwimad

Sorry for posting on such an old thread, but I was wondering if as the previous posters have said most people are older than 25, would I be out of place at 20? I was 16 sitting the LC and am doing a 3 year degree, and I'm considering going for this next September.

Tom Young

kiwimad wrote: »

Sorry for posting on such an old thread, but I was wondering if as the previous posters have said most people are older than 25, would I be out of place at 20? I was 16 sitting the LC and am doing a 3 year degree, and I'm considering going for this next September.

No. Do as I said further up. Fill in the forms, pay the fees and display some qualification. The course is tough from a time and cash commitment point of view.

Birneybau

Dragging up an old thread just to add my two cents.

I've been doing this the last few weeks, and to be honest, attending (only 10 mins away after work, so that's not an issue), working full time and getting the reading done/tutorial preperation work/assignment are nigh on impossible to me.

Seriously considering dropping out in next 2 weeks, wherein I'll retrieve 80% of the fee paid.

Think I'd find it hard going even if I was doing the same course work full time!

BUT, the lecturers are great, especially Ciaran, and the fellow students are all nice, all manner of people with regards to age and background.

Loululaw

Hi there "Birenybau". I literally just joined this site to reply to this thread. I'm just wondering if you ended up leaving the course in the end or if you stuck with it? Would love to know your thoughts as considering whether to take the course myself this year. The late entries deadline is this Monday (31st). They have put the course online for the year due to COVID.