Disclosing your sexual identity

KDII

Being a lesbian is a part of who I am, and realising and coming to terms with that has had a huge effect on shaping my personality. It has probably been the most pivotal event in my life to date.

When meeting new groups of people socially I always feel as though I am lying, or almost holding back by not disclosing the fact that either I'm gay or have a girlfriend. This feeling tends to crop up when your close enough to talk about relationships etc.

The reason I'm starting this thread is that myself and my girlfriend disagree with this and the issue cropped up tonight. We are volunteering in central America and staying in a compound kind of place with 12 other volunteers. Due to the little bubble we are living in I have found myself deflecting assumptions that I have a boyfriend, are excited to meet new male volunteers or will go out and mingle with local men. It's not that this bothers me per se, I suppose I just don't properly relax and enjoy myself when I can't be my true self.

My OH on the other hand disagrees. She sees no reason to disclose this information at all and feels that "if they find out they find out". She reckons it would be obvious enough from our Facebook page. Frankly I find it bizarre they haven't figured it out. We are constantly getting "you two are like an old married couple" comments etc.

I suppose I just wonder if people feel the need to disclose their sexuality as I do? Or feel as though you can take it or leave it. I do feel that socially I spend majority of my time is a land of heterosexist assumptions so on a micro level is what I'm wondering about.

teddansonswig

hey kdii hope c.americas fun what you workin at?

myself an an ex partner did a volunteer farming (wwoof) in sicily and were in kinda the same situation
we never did p.d.a. (there was farming to do!) so it was reasonable enough that it could have escaped some peoples attention, we wondered a few times if anyone noticed/cared that our beds were pushed together
anyway in the end, no one did and everyone just treated us as 2 humans from the same city
i hazard a guess that if we had made apoint of it, everything would have been slightly (whats the word...) ''geared' towards us being a couple. ie: you boys go do that job together

personally i dont give up my sexuality very easily and dodge the question as often and for as long as i can, mostly because its none of the person who's asking's (who obviously doesn't know me that well) business! I wouldnt dare ask someone. I take pleasure in that gasp on peoples face when they realise they have been projecting their heterosexist assumptions!
that doesnt mean that i would introduce my partner as a friend, if hes in the room ill be upfront about it!

i think you are 'gay and proud' and me and your gf are just gay!

have fun!

waterglass305

Hi KD11, I have to agree with your other half, I never feel obligated to tell anyone in any circumstances my sexuality. I don't lie but if I can avoid telling people I will. Saying 'I'm gay (or alternative)' does in my opinion conveys certain stereotypes that I really want to avoid.

In general I want people to get to know me before they find out I'm into guys. That way they won't see me as just that 'gay guy'. It may sound petty or weird but it's important to me.

The one place I don't ever want to be out is work, they're not closed minded or anything I just don't want them to know.
The only people who I want to know are my true friends and my close family. Everyone else can kept out of the loop.

baby and crumble

I tend to just be me, yapping about anything and everything. I don't start each new friendship/ first meeting with "hi I'm gay" but if someone asks me about my partner, of I have a boyfriend, etc, I'll be as honest as I can, barring of course safety concerns dependent on where we are. My sexuality isn't a big part of my personality, but my partner is a big part of my life. So I'm not going to censor myself in that respect if I don't have to.

whattotdo

[QUOTE=

The one place I don't ever want to be out is work, they're not closed minded or anything I just don't want them to know.
The only people who I want to know are my true friends and my close family. Everyone else can kept out of the loop.[/QUOTE]



Hi waterglass
Can I ask, how do you keep your sexuality from your work colleagues when friends and family know,for example,when your on a night out and perhaps your work friends would meet friends of yours who know your gay.Just interested to know as I'm out everywhere and constantly referred to as the 'gay guy',it bugs me!Sometimes I wish I was at home and not at work but most of the time I'm happy to be 'out' everywhere.

waterglass305

whattotdo wrote: »

Hi waterglass
Can I ask, how do you keep your sexuality from your work colleagues when friends and family know,for example,when your on a night out and perhaps your work friends would meet friends of yours who know your gay.Just interested to know as I'm out everywhere and constantly referred to as the 'gay guy',it bugs me!Sometimes I wish I was at home and not at work but most of the time I'm happy to be 'out' everywhere.

Hi whattodo
That sucks, they actually call you the 'gay guy'? How dare they!

I know how you feel, you want x people to know your gay and y not to and it's very hard to get a balance. I'm more lucky than anything else.
Whats your situation, do your co-workers and friends go to the same place?

It's hard to explain, for one I don't act like a stereotypical gay guy (I know most of us don't conform to that stereotype but anyway) and that's throws them, several people were apparently surprised when they were told.

secondly I simply don't go on about my relationships, my answers to 'do you have a girlfriend' is a cool "no, not a the moment" , also I am a shy guy and people pick up on that and figure I have problem talking to girls or something. Then I just avoid talking about it, deflect the question back to them, it's not that hard tbh.

My work life and my family/friend life are kept apart, my mum wouldn't know my boss etc. Also I've made it clear to friends I don't want to make a big deal about being gay, once your friends know that it should be easier.

Also most of my co-workers are older than me so little chance of encountering them in chambers, bar one who goes there frequently (but she's not a lesbian). And I can just say I got dragged there.

Once one of my friends was meeting up with me and some people who didn't know I was gay and I asked her quietly not to 'out' me and she understood.

I really hope that helps, it sucks what they're doing to you.

floggg

For me, I prefer to be up front with about my sexuality as much as possible - though I still find it hard at times to find the right way to do it without making it a big deal.

I know many people say that sexuality is a "private matter" and nobody else's business, but I don't think that's necessarily the case. It's only ever homosexuality that is ever considered to be a private matter, never heterosexuality. A straight person has no hesitation in telling you about their weekend with their wife or girlfriend, or remarking on an attractive person. Their sexuality is generally out there front and centre, even if in a suitable way. I don't feel that gay people should be forced to behave in any different manner.

I know in my heart that I will never be "the gay guy" (even if an ignorant few might choose to see me that way), though I will always be a guy who happens to be gay. My sexuality is only one aspect of who I am, but nevertheless it is an important aspect. I don't want anybody to ever think that I am in any way ashamed of that, or trying to hide it. I also think that if I am getting to know somebody and they are getting to know me, then the should get to know the real me and not some edited version - both for my sake and their own.

I also feel something of a "responsibility" to be open about it too. I think to a certain extent that those of us who are out and comfortable with our sexuality owe it to a certain extent to the generations who came before us and the generations who will come after us.

As Anderson Cooper said in his recent coming out email

"I've also been reminded recently that while as a society we are moving toward greater inclusion and equality for all people, the tide of history only advances when people make themselves fully visible."

By being visible, we help to show those struggling with their sexuality and societies negative perceptions that there are plenty of normal, well adjusted and happy LGBT people living fulfilling lives without fear or shame. We also give a similar message to the rest of society, and disprove misconceptions, stereotypes and prejudices. Old prejudices often don't seem to hold up to reality as people learn that their LGBT loved ones, friends, neighbours and colleagues are LGBT and living happy, well adjusted normal lives with the same hopes, same fears and same struggles as them.

whattotdo

waterglass305 wrote: »

Hi whattodo
That sucks, they actually call you the 'gay guy'? How dare they!

I know how you feel, you want x people to know your gay and y not to and it's very hard to get a balance. I'm more lucky than anything else.
Whats your situation, do your co-workers and friends go to the same place?

It's hard to explain, for one I don't act like a stereotypical gay guy (I know most of us don't conform to that stereotype but anyway) and that's throws them, several people were apparently surprised when they were told.

secondly I simply don't go on about my relationships, my answers to 'do you have a girlfriend' is a cool "no, not a the moment" , also I am a shy guy and people pick up on that and figure I have problem talking to girls or something. Then I just avoid talking about it, deflect the question back to them, it's not that hard tbh.

My work life and my family/friend life are kept apart, my mum wouldn't know my boss etc. Also I've made it clear to friends I don't want to make a big deal about being gay, once your friends know that it should be easier.

Also most of my co-workers are older than me so little chance of encountering them in chambers, bar one who goes there frequently (but she's not a lesbian). And I can just say I got dragged there.

Once one of my friends was meeting up with me and some people who didn't know I was gay and I asked her quietly not to 'out' me and she understood.

I really hope that helps, it sucks what they're doing to you.

Thanks for reply,they wouldn't call me 'gay guy' to my face,thankfully I don't receive any homophobia at work but if someone new at work asked about me,first think they'd be told is that I'm gay not my name!
My work and home are opposite parts of the country but I think in this era of social networking it's hard to keep anything private.Also,Ireland being so small if they ask where I'm from chances are they'll ask 'ah,do you know such a person'..so I don't keep my sexuality a secret.Well done to you on keeping both seperate as it's what you want,no easy task!

Goodshape

Totally agree with floggg, but... I do find it difficult sometimes.

I want to be up front / open about it because I want it not to make a difference. I think it's still a bit of an up-hill struggle there, which in fact makes it important to be open, imo. Not a lot of fun sometimes -- I've never had a harshly negative reaction but I've certainly been treated as "the gay one" for the remainder of a night out. Some people all-off-a-sudden not sure how to talk to me at all, others absolutely fascinated by this single revelation and I'm stuck talking about what it's like to be a gay for hours on end.

I'm naturally a bit introverted anyway and I'm not sure I've ever actively volunteered the information (like "Hi, I'm Michael and I'm gay. What's your name?") -- I don't even think I'd want to do that. But if I am meeting people for the first time i do try and find ways of dropping in a "my [ex-]boyfriend...", or something similar, before too long. Particularly if I like the person (as a friend, I mean. I am ****e at even talking to guys I actually really like ).


There are plenty of times too though, where I just feel like a wimp and keep my mouth shut. I enjoy having the craic with the lads, always have. And I am also gay. Sometimes I'll just settle for having the craic. But often that does end up making me feel like I'm not being true to myself -- and I don't like that.

waterglass305

Hi whattodo, I would hate to be in your situation, to be called the 'gay guy' to anyone would make me mad. If that happened to me I would have to say "I beg your pardon, I do have a name", then try to get them to stop. When I meet someone for the first time I avoid saying anything to make someone think I'm gay, then they get to know me and don't see me as a 'gay' but as a nice guy who happens to like guys not girls. No biggie.

I take your point about social networking but my Facebook account is on full private mode, you wouldn't be able to find me on Google or Facebook unless we were friends of friends and then you wouldn't see my picture/comments etc. Even some my Facebook friends aren't aware I'm into guys because you can tweak comments to be only visible to certain people and who you're in a relationship with etc. I

It is hard though, Facebook is a bitch to use.
It sucks I know it's hard and you can never slip up.


Hi flogg
I understand where you're coming from, when I was at the Dublin pride I felt happy to be out, it was nice having the flag as a cloak.
But I'm personally a private person, I don't like the idea of strangers/people I barely know knowing facts about me when I don't know them.

There is a debate on whether all gay people have a 'responsibility' to be out and 'proud'. Frankly I disagree, we preach people should be themselves well what about people like me who don't want to be wearing the "I'm gay badge" and want to be private about their sexuality. You can't have both. I have to be true to myself and be private about it because that's what works for me.:D

Goodshape

waterglass305 wrote: »

But I'm personally a private person, I don't like the idea of strangers/people I barely know knowing facts about me when I don't know them.

Privacy is one thing, but purposefully not disclosing your sexuality?

Aside from anything else like being "proud" or setting an example... honestly honest question: how do you expect to find a partner / find love? Do you 'secretly' go off to gay bars every other weekend and just keep that to yourself?

waterglass305

Goodshape wrote: »

Privacy is one thing, but purposefully not disclosing your sexuality?

Aside from anything else like being "proud" or setting an example... honestly honest question: how do you expect to find a partner / find love? Do you 'secretly' go off to gay bars every other weekend and just keep that to yourself?

No dear God no, People do know, I'm in a lgbt group and I have had a boyfriend before.
It's hard to explain, x amount of people know, my close family, my friends, the lgbt group I'm in etc.

It's just there are some people who don't know and I'm determined not to find out because I'm not comfortable with them knowing yet. That includes my co-workers.

The people I trust and consider to be friends know. I'm not hiding in the bathroom in a gay club nor do I only express my sexuality on-line. I hang out with lgbt friends, I go to events and I've joked to friends about me doing guys (don't worry I mock them right back) I'm one of the bad ones dancing on the dance floor

Why does every out and proud lgbt think that just because you don't say 'I'm gay' to everyone mean you're keeping it a horrible secret and live in the closet?
I'm not in the closet I just don't want some people to know.

Goodshape

Ah, OK. I see where you're coming from, and that's probably not too uncommon -- or unhealthy or anything, if that's what works for you.

I've never really had that group of exclusively gay friends, particularly not when I'm living in Donegal (which I am now). And to be honest, whenever I've tried I've just never really 'clicked' with a whole group of gay men, as friends.

Like I say, I'm a bit introverted anyway and probably a bit hard on myself too in that regard, as I've always had the opinion of "why should I" have a group of exclusively gay friends. In my case I'd often have to go out of my way to do that. I often think maybe I should, but then my friends (who I love very much) should respect me either way, and I should be comfortable enough around them, so that it shouldn't matter. And I'm a stubborn eejit enough to try and live by that even when it isn't always working out.

If I were to go and seek out a gay group, I think I'd have that feeling that I'm just doing it in the hope of finding a boyfriend of some sort... seems a bit disingenuous on all fronts, to me. So I try to be as open as I can in the hope that the right one pops up in among all my "regular" friends (not them (I'm pretty sure, in most cases :pac:) but someone passing through maybe).

That's the crux of it for me, anyway :-/. I'm gay... which means I'm attracted to men... not much good if I'm the only one around who knows it.

waterglass305

Goodshape wrote: »

Ah, OK. I see where you're coming from, and that's probably not too uncommon -- or unhealthy or anything, if that's what works for you.

I've never really had that group of exclusively gay friends, particularly not when I'm living in Donegal (which I am now). And to be honest, whenever I've tried I've just never really 'clicked' with a whole group of gay men, as friends.

Like I say, I'm a bit introverted anyway and probably a bit hard on myself too in that regard, as I've always had the opinion of "why should I" have a group of exclusively gay friends. In my case I'd often have to go out of my way to do that. I often think maybe I should, but then my friends (who I love very much) should respect me either way, and I should be comfortable enough around them, so that it shouldn't matter. And I'm a stubborn eejit enough to try and live by that even when it isn't always working out.

If I were to go and seek out a gay group, I think I'd have that feeling that I'm just doing it in the hope of finding a boyfriend of some sort... seems a bit disingenuous on all fronts, to me. So I try to be as open as I can in the hope that the right one pops up in among all my "regular" friends (not them (I'm pretty sure, in most cases :pac:) but someone passing through maybe).

That's the crux of it for me, anyway :-/. I'm gay... which means I'm attracted to men... not much good if I'm the only one around who knows it.

Oh right I see where you're coming from, yah one would have to let it be known that they were lgbt to find someone else especally in Donegal. I take it your a bit isolated. But surely you know a few lgbts from the grapevine, friends of friends maybe?


I do know whats it's like, I can't flirt for **** and I couldn't chat up a fella to save my life and it sucks.
In a way I have best of both worlds, I have friends I can go to gay clubs and friends to go to straight ones.

I joined the lgbt as part of coming out and to make friends who could relate, I never joined to shag anyone/find a man but to make friends. And I did it while keeping my super awesome non-lgbt friends. I also did it to avoid the problems you encountered when you came out to people and they asked you questions or got nervous.
I think it's great you want to stick to your friends, I'm the same but being in a lgbt group doesn't mean you have to make friends with gay lads, I'm really good friends with some girls who are bi. Obviously we won't be dating but it is nice to hang out with people who at the very least know where you're coming from.

whattotdo

Stating the obvious but its easier to be 'out' in some work places than others which this link shows-


http://www.independent.ie/national-news/gay-gardai-fear-coming-out-will-damage-career-3153455.html

waterglass305

Not even remotely surprised, though there were members of the Gardai at this years Pride parade, they even gave a speech.

Things are changing, now to get me a lad in a uniform :cool:

Goodshape

waterglass305 wrote: »

But surely you know a few lgbts from the grapevine, friends of friends maybe?

Oh yeah there are a few around alright. A surprising amount (to me, anyway) considering it's a pretty small town in pretty rural Ireland. So thankfully if I do want to talk about "gay things" I'm usually not stuck.

But, as I sort of pointed to before, most of us would hang out in different circles most of the time. And I probably wouldn't have known about many of them if I weren't open about myself, if you know what I mean. There are certainly varying degrees of "out and open" around here.


For the first few years after coming out I was definitely much more worried about who should know, worried about (bad) reactions, etc. I'm not sure if I'm just lucky to have a really liberal group of both close and extended friends, or that my fears were just unfounded (I hope it's that one) but I've never had a bad reaction to just being open, as comes naturally, even up here in "rural Ireland".

In a way I have best of both worlds, I have friends I can go to gay clubs and friends to go to straight ones.

I hate clubs

waterglass305

Goodshape wrote: »

For the first few years after coming out I was definitely much more worried about who should know, worried about (bad) reactions, etc. I'm not sure if I'm just lucky to have a really liberal group of both close and extended friends, or that my fears were just unfounded (I hope it's that one) but I've never had a bad reaction to just being open, as comes naturally, even up here in "rural Ireland".

I'm the same, I had always expected to get a bad reaction when I first came out and nope was grand. Maybe I'm like you, I only came out about a eighteen months ago so maybe I'm still just not all the way 'there' yet.

But I'm really pleased to hear that rural Ireland is that open minded, it gives me a lot of hope for this country. And it proves Mary Coughlan wrong

Goodshape wrote: »

Oh yeah there are a few around alright. A surprising amount (to me, anyway) considering it's a pretty small town in pretty rural Ireland. So thankfully if I do want to talk about "gay things" I'm usually not stuck.

But, as I sort of pointed to before, most of us would hang out in different circles most of the time. And I probably wouldn't have known about many of them if I weren't open about myself, if you know what I mean. There are certainly varying degrees of "out and open" around here.


For the first few years after coming out I was definitely much more worried about who should know, worried about (bad) reactions, etc. I'm not sure if I'm just lucky to have a really liberal group of both close and extended friends, or that my fears were just unfounded (I hope it's that one) but I've never had a bad reaction to just being open, as comes naturally, even up here in "rural Ireland".

Goodshape wrote: »

I hate clubs

Blasphemy!!

waterglass305

Goodshape does that mean you're not the only gay in the village?? :eek:



Sorry couldn't resist;)

floggg

Has anybody seen the film weekend?

One of the themes of the film is that while straight people are free to live their whole lives in the open, to be openly affectionate, to be up front about their relationships and sex lives and to freely discuss sex and sexual experiences in the open, gay people have to live their lives discreetly and are made to feel ashamed or embarrassed about talking about equivalent issues in straight company.

For straight people, sexuality is never a private or personal matter. It only ever is for gays.

That's why I try to be open about who I am. I don't want to be made feel I have anything to be embarrassed about.

But it's still easier said then done. I've been out about a year now but I'm still not out to most of work (in a very small office) of to some of the lads I play soccer with. Not out of trying to hide it but just not knowing how to address it without it being this big deal, or people think I was hiding it after knowing them so long (5 years or so in each case).

baby and crumble

floggg wrote: »

For straight people, sexuality is never a private or personal matter. It only ever is for gays.

That's a very good point. It's why the argument "I don't care what the gays do so long as they don't push it in my face" pisses me off so much. I could say the exact same to straight people. But straight sexuality IS pushed in my face. Every day.

Goodshape

floggg wrote: »

Has anybody seen the film weekend?

Yes. Great film! Well worth a watch if anyone hasn't seen it - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1714210/

Annasopra

baby and crumble wrote: »

That's a very good point. It's why the argument "I don't care what the gays do so long as they don't push it in my face" pisses me off so much. I could say the exact same to straight people. But straight sexuality IS pushed in my face. Every day.

Every day is a straight pride day

floggg

Goodshape wrote: »

Yes. Great film! Well worth a watch if anyone hasn't seen it - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1714210/

I fell in love with Russell the first time I say it!

waterglass305

I'm definitely going to watch it now, looks really good.

I understand what most of you are saying, if the first very brave lgbts hadn't started coming out and protesting for equality back in the 1960s we'd all be still in the closet with no chance to live openly or being happy.

Ohh and Mango Salsa, I was at the Dublin Pride and the head drag said the a straight pride parade is a walk

waterglass305

I'm definitely going to watch it now, looks really good.

I understand what most of you are saying, if the first very brave lgbts hadn't started coming out and protesting for equality back in the 1960s we'd all be still in the closet with no chance to live openly or being happy.

Ohh and Mango Salsa, I was at the Dublin Pride and the head drag said the a straight pride parade is a walk

floggg

Thought this discussion was interesting and relevant to this thread.

Wade: I agree. I often think that most heterosexual people don't understand, and can't understand, the privilege they have to not have to name their sexuality unless they name it to correct some other's assumption that they are not homosexual. And, yes, I get that it's great for LGBTQ youth to see more "out" people, including celebrities, but we have to respect an individual's decision to declare his/her sexuality when and how and if they see fit. I made the choice to come out when I was ready. "Coming out" is one of the most individual decisions anyone can make, and it should always be left up to the individual and I was not going to be overwhelmed by societal pressure to disclose my sexuality.

Darnell: Wade, you weren't forced to come out though, you let people in. There's a difference. Coming out, to me, places the power in the hands of everyone else but the person disclosing. Many of us seem to come out to people who get to approve or disapprove of the ways we live and love. I often think that we come out to make others comfortable, to confirm their suspicions, or to render ourselves visible in the eyes of others who refuse to see us. Yes, there is a type of liberation that comes along with that, but all of the fear, anxiety, melancholy, and even depression that come along with the decision to come out sometimes speak to the ways that external forces shape our decisions. So, I prefer to "invite in" those who I desire to share parts of myself with. I have the power and choice to make a decision that is more about my needs and desires and less about the requirements and demands of others. What do you think about Frank Ocean's invitation to us, by the way?

Full discussion here - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/darnell-l-moore/anderson-cooper-frank-ocean-gay_b_1653017.html?utm_hp_ref=gay-voices

waterglass305

I think there's a difference between announcing your sexuality and not keeping it a secret. Personally I thinks it's best to not announce but don't hide it.

There's a saying, if you tell three people or more it's not secret anymore (I'm paraphrasing) but it's true, you can't "invite"people in and tell them you're gay, they will talk and tell their friends.

That's why coming out is difficult, tell a gossipy friend/co-worker then good-bye closet whether you like it or not.

The most important part of coming out (assuming you do want to come out) is how you handle it. Make it clear how you want to come out and set boundaries and people will pick up on it.
Everyone knew Anderson was gay and had a boyfriend (or husband I'm not sure) but it wasn't until he announced it that everyone is making a big deal about it.
If I had been him I wouldn't have made the announcement. He's surrendered his privacy by 'coming out'

I do feel a little sorry for Frank Owens, as a hip-hop artist, his career may indeed suffer (if it doesn't I'll be surprised). A lot of male singers in that genre have to put out a very masculine and heterosexual image (have you seen the music videos?) and he will have a hard time getting back on track.
An out gay actor once advised other young actors to not come out because it would damage their career prospects. I wholeheartedly agree.

I don't like it and yes it's true that if more high-profile people come out the better it will get but if I had to advise an up and coming actor or singer who hadn't established their base, don't come out until at least your established.