Euro Champs: Success or Failure for Ireland??

tang1

Do you think the European Championships have been a success for Irish Athletics?? Apart from Brian Gregan and the Barr siblings do we have anything to be hopeful for when it comes to forthcoming major Athletics Championships?? Should we be performing better at these Championships or are we boxing above our weight when it comes to our athletes performances, personally i think we performed poorly apart from the above mentioned athletes.

thirstywork2

Agree with you 100%.The Euorpeans we should be aiming to make finals and giving ourselves a chance.

Mens 4 x 400m was a disaster and even with Gregan we would have struggled.In a way I think Gillick ran because of the last time missing the relay he was slated in the press.He wasn't ready to race but I hope he can get back for Euro indoors where he is a class act.

Marian Heffernan ran well in the 4 x 400m and Cuddihy ran super and was unlucky to be DQ in the individual where I think she would have been top 4 atleast.

Robinson learnt alot in his 1500m !!!
Britton just didnt have it on the day.

woodchopper

It was good to see the likes of Thomas Chamney get some experience on RTE. He has the potential to be one of the top dogs during the Olympic coverage. I hope he gets a run out at nationals next weekend to gain further experience.

downthemiddle

woodchopper wrote: »

It was good to see the likes of Thomas Chamney get some experience on RTE. He has the potential to be one of the top dogs during the Olympic coverage. I hope he gets a run out at nationals next weekend to gain further experience.

Cool post bro!

Pisco Sour

26th in Europe in the placing table. In no way can that be described as a success and it would be insulting to our athletes aspirations to deem this as such. We finished around 15th in Barcelona, and 23rd in the 2009 WORLDS. Even the football lads, despite an appalling performance in Poland, came 16th in Europe. 26th in Europe is not a good performance and there is no point pretending it is.

Our best performance of the championships was Jessie Barr IMO, because unlike some of the other events, her event was strong in Helsinki (including a WL performance), and yet she still made the final. Gregan performed excellently but his event was watered down. That can't be ignored. But he hit a huge PB in a championship environment, and that to me is worth more than an outdated A-Standard from 2011. He (and Jessie) must be sent to London.

Anyway, onwards and upwards towards London. We'll have Derval, Mad Len, Cragg and Ryan back, along with Olive (who I have a good feeling will do well. Just a hunch I have) and Rob who will be right up there in the 50k.

Pherekydes

Based on our population, we should have won 9 pts, but we won 10.

We finished ahead of super rich Switzerland, and host nation Finland. These nations don't have Rugby or Gaelic Games to distract, and spend far more on the likes of facilities and coaching.

I think we punch above our weight, and we (fans) expect too much.

Look at the positives: The Barrs and Gregan ran brilliantly on a rotten track. Fionnuala Britton finished 4th in her second ever track 10k (and her first flat championship race).

Joanne Cuddihy was foiled by the track. (Yeah, yeah, I know, it's the same for everyone)

I truly hope that the IAAF never allow a major championships to take place on a double radius bend track again. I hope the Olympic Stadium in Helsinki never hosts another Major Championships (an Olympics, 2 worlds, and 3 Europeans have been held in this stadium). I can't believe that an Athletics mad nation like Finland ****ed up their national stadium for the sake of soccer.

nerraw1111

Would Britton's run not be considered a decent performance given that it just her second 10km on the track? Steep learning curve.

TFBubendorfer

Pherekydes wrote: »

We finished ahead of super rich Switzerland, and host nation Finland.

Just because someone else did even worse does not make it a success by any stretch of the imagination.

Pisco Sour

Pherekydes wrote: »

Based on our population, we should have won 9 pts, but we won 10.

We finished ahead of super rich Switzerland, and host nation Finland. These nations don't have Rugby or Gaelic Games to distract, and spend far more on the likes of facilities and coaching.

I think we punch above our weight, and we (fans) expect too much.

Look at the positives: The Barrs and Gregan ran brilliantly on a rotten track. Fionnuala Britton finished 4th in her second ever track 10k (and her first flat championship race).

Joanne Cuddihy was foiled by the track. (Yeah, yeah, I know, it's the same for everyone)

I truly hope that the IAAF never allow a major championships to take place on a double radius bend track again. I hope the Olympic Stadium in Helsinki never hosts another Major Championships (an Olympics, 2 worlds, and 3 Europeans have been held in this stadium). I can't believe that an Athletics mad nation like Finland ****ed up their national stadium for the sake of soccer.

Cant agree that these championships are a success. All it proves is that Finland performed appallingly. As for Switzerland, they may not have GAA and rugby, but they've got a sh1tload of winter sports which pull people away from athletics. Also Finland has Ice-Hockey which is their number one sport.

I agree we punch above our weight in general, but not this week.

Agree with your sentiments regarding the track though. I'll see that and I'll raise you. I hope that the European Championships are never allowed to be held during an Olympic year again. It has been a bit of a joke to be honest. Incomparable with Barcelona. Tim Hutchins said on Eurosport that the whole event feels like a European Under-23 championships. I love the way the EAA are banging on about the championships on their twitter as being a remarkable success, despite the fact the stadium was never more than half full, the track was a crying joke, lots of the best athletes in Europe skipped it, and those who were there had their eyes on something bigger with 5 rings. The idea has been a dreadful one, but no doubt they will persist with this long term objective of destroying the prestige of an event that has been built up over the last 80 years.

tunguska

The usual punching above our weight crap thats always rolled out after championships.
Small minded performance from a small minded nation. It was another failure in a long line of failures.

average_runner

I actually think we didnt perform well, dont think its athletes but more so down to whats available to them here??

For example if Mo Farah says he wants to take such a vitamin or something, the British team looks into in great detail to see if its legal, while the Irish attitude seems to be dont risk it without doing their research!!

CoachDudie

It didn't go well and it's hard to be optimistic for the Olympics after that. There probably wont be as weak a European Championship again so it's disappointing.
I can't see the T&F team doing too well at the Olympics either, hope I'm wrong.

average_runner

hopefully our Walkers will do well for us, outside that, we lucky to make any of the track & field finals. maybe Derval!

Pisco Sour

tunguska wrote: »

The usual punching above our weight crap thats always rolled out after championships.
Small minded performance from a small minded nation. It was another failure in a long line of failures.

That's a bit harsh. Helsinki was poor but we have actually performed very well over the last 5 years:

Osaka World Champs 2007: O'Keefe, Heffernan top 6, Gillick, O'Rourke, McGettigan, Britton, Cuddihy, Hession all in top 16 (there may have been more. Think we had 9 in the top 16).

Berlin World Champs 2009: Loughnane 2nd, O'Rourke 4th, Gillick 6th, Hession 10th, Heffernan 15th. Depth not as impressive as in Osaka, but the top end performances were outstanding. 23rd on placing table.

Barcelona European Championships 2010: O'Rourke 2nd, Heffernan 4th and 4th, Gillick 5th, Hession 6th. 15th on placing table.

Daegu World Champs 2011: Ryan top 6, O'Lionaird, 4x400 relay team, Britton, Cragg, Loughnane all in top 16 (correct me if I am forgetting somebody else). What hurt us here was Derval's injury (where she surely would have been top 5 or 6) and Cuddihy's false start.

Helsinki has been poor, but in the end of the day it has been a pretty uninspiring championships all round, not just from an Irish perspective. Things will pick up for London.

CoachDudie

average_runner wrote: »

hopefully our Walkers will do well for us, outside that, we lucky to make any of the track & field finals. maybe Derval!

The walkers will need a bit of luck but I think Rob will go close. I can't see any final I'm afraid for the T&F.

Pisco Sour

CoachDudie wrote: »

The walkers will need a bit of luck but I think Rob will go close. I can't see any final I'm afraid for the T&F.

Cragg and Deirdre Ryan made the final in Daegu last year. No reason why they cant again. Same with Derval and Mad Len IF they get into proper shape and form.

CoachDudie

Pisco Sour wrote: »

Cragg and Deirdre Ryan made the final in Daegu last year. No reason why they cant again. Same with Derval and Mad Len IF they get into proper shape and form.

Long gone are the days of expecting anything from Cragg, Ryan could but I think it's unlikely.
Maybe there'll be a surprise or two. If some run close to their best then we can't complain.

ecoli

I think poor is a bit harsh. To my mind bar a few unlucky mishaps but other than that we performed pretty much to expectation

Sure it was a weak championship but like other countries there was a very much developmental squad put out.

Look at the ones who didnt compete who are usually our top athletes; Derval, Cragg, Ryan, Loughnane, Heffernan and O Lionaird. These are usually the athletes who exceed expectations and distort the perception of our championships in terms of "punching above our weight"

Now look at the team that went and performed well as emerging talent

Gregan and the Barrs had exceptional championships. Hession had a solid run in terms of his recent form

Also take into account a few of the following:

- Gregan mentioned injury problem in the final. Once again our Relay team was missing its top 400m runner (though personally think they still wouldn have made a difference)
- Cuddihy expected to make the final and some people thing one of our best medal hopes gets DQ'ed
- Colvert our top 200m sprinter this year gets DQ'ed first round yet Hession made it through makes me think that there was top 6 at least on the cards for him
- Both relay teams DQ'ed
- Ben Reynolds who would have been expected to atleast reach the Semi's DNS'ed

Had these Injuries/Track problems not been an issue the championships could have been seen in a very different light even if one of the above managed to sneak a medal once again it would have skewed the perception of these championships

Dont get me wrong there were one or two poor performances but you get that at every championship. I think though in general the re sizing of the track was the thing that affected our overall championship rather than the poor performances

ecoli

CoachDudie wrote: »

Long gone are the days of expecting anything from Cragg

Isn't he in the process of changing training set up's? could be just what he needs as he has shown last year with his runs the talent and ability is still there

Pisco Sour

ecoli wrote: »

- Colvert our top 200m sprinter this year gets DQ'ed first round yet Hession made it through makes me think that there was top 6 at least on the cards for him

There was no chance he'd have made top 6. He ran shockingly in his heat, and even if he wasn't DQ'd he would have just squeezed into the semi finals.

Agree with some of what you say, but lets be honest, what was your assessment of the Irish team in Euro 2012? There's nobody in the football community making excuses for them. You could come up with lots of excuses for that but whats the point! Helsinki was poor and there's no point dressing it up. The track was rubbish yes, but we must have had more DQ's than any other country. There's no pont making excuses. It was a poor performance (with the exception of a few). Time to move on. We'll have a good one in London when it matters.

pre

Cragg is a waste of space.

Dan man

pre wrote: »

Cragg is a waste of space.

Then why go to the bother if posting a comment about him?...if he is such a waste of space I mean.
Why not comment on his running rather than have a jibe at him personally?

pre

Dan man wrote: »

Then why go to the bother if posting a comment about him?...if he is such a waste of space I mean.
Why not comment on his running rather than have a jibe at him personally?

Alistair DNF Cragg

runjb

Come back on here 'Pre' when you have Irish records, a European title and a European record:D We have enough problems in athletics without this tripe of criticising our own.

pre

runjb wrote: »

Come back on here 'Pre' when you have Irish records, a European title and a European record:D We have enough problems in athletics without this tripe of criticising our own.

Critiscising our own?

tang1

pre wrote: »

runjb wrote: »

Come back on here 'Pre' when you have Irish records, a European title and a European record:D We have enough problems in athletics without this tripe of criticising our own.

Critiscising our own?

Oh he's South African now i suppose seeing hes not up to your expectations.

pre

tang1 wrote: »

Oh he's South African now i suppose seeing hes not up to your expectations.

No he is South African because he was born and raised there he only declared for Ireland in 2003. There are alot of kenyans running for european countries for financial gains as we all know and i disagree with that aswell. He wont get any of my support in london i would much rather support a good honest athlete like Mark Keneally.

tang1

pre wrote: »

No he is South African because he was born and raised there he only declared for Ireland in 2003. There are alot of kenyans running for european countries for financial gains as we all know and i disagree with that aswell. He wont get any of my support in london i would much rather support a good honest athlete like Mark Keneally.

You obviously didn't support the Irish soccer team in the Euros so?? What a ridiculous thing to say, any man or woman that qualifies to wear an Irish vest should get the full support of Ireland regardless. You are of course entitled to your opinion, its one i cannot agree with though.

pre

tang1 wrote: »

You obviously didn't support the Irish soccer team in the Euros so?? What a ridiculous thing to say, any man or woman that qualifies to wear an Irish vest should get the full support of Ireland regardless. You are of course entitled to your opinion, its one i cannot agree with though.

I would say your favourite player was Tony Cascarino. How is it Ridiculous to support genuine Irish people.Would u prefer to hand out Irish passports to kenyans and then claim its great for Irish athletics if they win something.

tang1

pre wrote: »

I would say your favourite player was Tony Cascarino. How is it Ridiculous to support genuine Irish people.Would u prefer to hand out Irish passports to kenyans and then claim its great for Irish athletics if they win something.

Did i mention Kenyans in my post no, nor did i mention handing out passports to every half decent athlete that enters the country. I said we should support our athletes full stop. When somebody pulls on the green of Ireland we should support them plain and simple. And i was more Bernie Slaven than Tony Cascarino thanks!

pre

tang1 wrote: »

Did i mention Kenyans in my post no, nor did i mention handing out passports to every half decent athlete that enters the country. I said we should support our athletes full stop. When somebody pulls on the green of Ireland we should support them plain and simple. And i was more Bernie Slaven than Tony Cascarino thanks!

I only support genuine Irish people and not MERCENARIES good night and god bless. P.S Bernie Slaven was ****.

walshb

They performed as best as they could. If that is poor, average or good, so be it. Sometimes one's best is just not good enough. Is anyone here saying they performed badly due to a lack of focus or commitment or effort or training? If not, well then they performed as best they could. And in T&F it is just down to better athletes in other countries.

SeanKenny

pre wrote: »

I only support genuine Irish people and not MERCENARIES good night and god bless. P.S Bernie Slaven was ****.

Your attitude stinks mate.

Also you chose the most inappropriate name imaginable. Pre was a warrior, he lit up tracks, you extinguish the will to read threads here!!

SeanKenny

Back on topic, some of the Irish competitors were excellent, some were average, some will be disappointed. Thats the nature of championship athletics. The championships are here to stay, lets embrace them and maximise the medal count.

By the way I applaud the efforts of all Irish athletes there. Its great to see Irish athletes compete at an international level - the more the merrier. Medals will occasionally be won - the U23 Euro Cross team in 2010, Finnoula Britton in the 2011 Euro Cross, Gillicks indoor triumphs etc etc. Any championship that yields a medal is a massive success, others are an opportunity to athletes to reflect, learn and improve.

Pisco Sour

Jaysus lads. Can't believe you fell for that. Blatent trolling.

Pisco Sour

walshb wrote: »

They performed as best as they could. If that is poor, average or good, so be it. Sometimes one's best is just not good enough. Is anyone here saying they performed badly due to a lack of focus or commitment or effort or training? If not, well then they performed as best they could. And in T&F it is just down to better athletes in other countries.

The medallists in the wowmens 400m are not better athletes than Joanne Cuddihy. She messed up and isn't making an excuses.

Steven Colvert is a better athlete than many of those that were in the 200 final. He ran a terrible race simple as.

Bit defeatest to just say that other countries are just better than us.

thirtyfoot

I think it wasn't a failure but it wasn't great. The relays were poor, basic errors that you wouldn't see in a round of the league. Maybe half a dozen under performed. 3 over performed. A few more did ok. We could have got 3 more finalists. It was a sh8te champs. I think those that underperformed should be looked at and asked what went wrong? How can we help you or your coach? Do you need assistance in anything? This is the only way we can improve. We can't accept qualifying for a majors as a sign of success. It's not medals because not all qualifiers can medal but its performing a SB or as close to a SB as possible that should be achievable. We have athletes that can do this, what makes them different.

The scary thing is the first flight athletes, not in Helsinki, are not exactly firing on all cylinders with one or two exceptions. Could be a long 6 weeks.

pc11

Deirdre Ryan will not get near the final in London IMO, sorry, but I will be happy to be proved wrong.

I do think this f*cking around with the Europeans is silly and unnecessary.

pre

SeanKenny wrote: »

Your attitude stinks mate.

Also you chose the most inappropriate name imaginable. Pre was a warrior, he lit up tracks, you extinguish the will to read threads here!!

Now now Sean

walshb

Pisco Sour wrote: »

The medallists in the wowmens 400m are not better athletes than Joanne Cuddihy. She messed up and isn't making an excuses.

Steven Colvert is a better athlete than many of those that were in the 200 final. He ran a terrible race simple as.

Bit defeatest to just say that other countries are just better than us.

Joanne was DQ'd. She had the beatings of any of the athletes in that whole field, but yes, messed up. It can happen to any athlete.

Edit: And happened to many athletes at this championships.