Advice on crossing Shorthorns with Limousin

Mac Taylor

I have 2 LMx heifers which I am planning to AI in August (calving down
hopefully at 24+ months.) They are second generation easy caving Lim so I am reluctant to give them another easy calving LM, the reason being if they have heifers I would be planning to keep them. I am thinking of using SH on them. They are both big growthy heifers.

Is this a good idea and if so what bulls would you advise? (Munster AI preferably)

Seaba

Mac Taylor wrote: »

I have 2 LMx heifers which I am planning to AI in August (calving down
hopefully at 24+ months.) They are second generation easy caving Lim so I am reluctant to give them another easy calving LM, the reason being if they have heifers I would be planning to keep them. I am thinking of using SH on them. They are both big growthy heifers.

Is this a good idea and if so what bulls would you advise? (Munster AI preferably)

I am no expert on what breeds cross best but we have an 8yr old Shorthorn cow (ALO - so going back a few years here) off a Limousin cow, and she is by far the most consistent cow we have. She has 'kept' first time, every time we bulled her, is the first to calf each year, has a very good bag of milk (even though her mother was not that milky), is as quiet as a mouse and brings an R3 calf every year - a BB U3 heifer two years. I know she is getting a bit old but will get Dad to get a try and get a replacement heifer off her.

I don't know many Munster bulls but if your heifers are tall and growthy make sure the bull isn't bringing tall growthy calves too or your will have giraffes on your hands! AI man is your best source of info - he'll have seen calves off all of the bulls.

Mac Taylor

Thanks for the comment Seaba
just wondering whether anyone else has a view:)

Bizzum

Mac Taylor wrote: »

just wondering whether anyone else has a view:)

I haven't much advice for you but we have 2 cows Lim out of SHX cows. I think its a decent cross. Indeed I've been eyeing up the SH bull Creaga Dice CZB on Dovea. He looks a decent bull. One of our Lim cows is off the SH bull ALO by the Lim ULE. She is the oldest cow we have at 12yo, super cow to breed, she throws out a U grade CH calf every year. In fact we have 2 of her daughters now as cows, one off the Sim bull KFY and one off our own CH stockbull. Both good young cows.

So go for it, nothing ventured nothing gained! Milk is getting to be a scarse commodity in some of these bred up suckler cows, and the SH wont do ant harm!

Gloire

SBU is a great bet if you want to put SH on LM heifers. Easy calving, make great heifers and good shape and weight also.
Paintearth Rama is new and more expensive but looks impressive.

just do it

Bizzum wrote: »

we have 2 cows Lim out of SHX cows. I think its a decent cross. Indeed I've been eyeing up the SH bull Creaga Dice CZB on Dovea. He looks a decent bull. One of our Lim cows is off the SH bull ALO by the Lim ULE. She is the oldest cow we have at 12yo, super cow to breed, she throws out a U grade CH calf every year. In fact we have 2 of her daughters now as cows, one off the Sim bull KFY and one off our own CH stockbull. Both good young cows.

Best if both world by the sounds of it, a U grade carcass or good replacement.

Good to hear your feedback as I'd 4 replacements for AI this Spring and I gave them LYJ. They all have a lot of LM breeding in them and I just wanted to add another breed into the mix. I hope they produce heifer calves

Edit: LYJ is munster and was selected because it was the SH straw my AI man has in the can

just do it

The more I think of it a predominantly LM cow with some shorthorn in the back breeding is possibly as good an all-round commercial cow as you'll get. SH brings milk, hardiness, longevity, docility and fertility to the equation. And unlike other traditional breeds you're not losing out too much on muscle or confirmation.

RobinBanks

Mac Taylor wrote: »

I have 2 LMx heifers which I am planning to AI in August (calving down
hopefully at 24+ months.) They are second generation easy caving Lim so I am reluctant to give them another easy calving LM, the reason being if they have heifers I would be planning to keep them. I am thinking of using SH on them. They are both big growthy heifers.

Is this a good idea and if so what bulls would you advise? (Munster AI preferably)

The better farm that I visit just bought a SH bull to run with his LM cows. He thinks this will be a great gross as the muscle will come from the LM and the milk from the shorthorn. These will then be crossed back to BB and CH terminal bulls.

My neighbour though has shorthorn cows and crosses them with a LM bull. These are then bred back to a LM or CH bull. Both crosses appear to work well.

I have two maine anjous (supposed to be the beef version of the shorthorn breed) calving down in Oct/Nov. I can let you know how they get on. I dont have any experience of them only that the two i have are super animals.

If you're heifers are out of an easy calving LM bull and you cross these with an easy calving SH will you end up with a narrow enough cow??. Two easy calving strains may not give you the width in the hips that you need for crossing back with a terminal bull. This is only my opinion though I could be totally wrong.

I would use a SH bull on them heifers but perhaps you're A.I will be in a better position to tell you what bull to use. I would love to have more of the SH / LM cross on my farm.

pakalasa

Would the simmental not be a better cross? I know the colour isn't ideal but you have a beefier animal than a Shorthorn. The shorthorn is probably a smaller and hardier animal though. My gneral plan, if you like, is to cross two generations of limousin and then back to simmental to add milk and docility.

just do it

pakalasa wrote: »

Would the simmental not be a better cross? I know the colour isn't ideal but you have a beefier animal than a Shorthorn. The shorthorn is probably a smaller and hardier animal though. My gneral plan, if you like, is to cross two generations of limousin and then back to simmental to add milk and docility.

I feel the SH will bring greater hardiness and longevity into the equation that the SIM. Seeing the recent photo of the 480kg 10mo CVV bull weanling produced from a small stocky type LM cow leads me to think the cow needn't be too big. A smaller cow suits marginal land that bit better aswell.

I like the breeding plan your talking of though, 2 generations LM followed by 1 generation other breed.

Atilathehun

just do it wrote: »

pakalasa wrote: »

Would the simmental not be a better cross? I know the colour isn't ideal but you have a beefier animal than a Shorthorn. The shorthorn is probably a smaller and hardier animal though. My gneral plan, if you like, is to cross two generations of limousin and then back to simmental to add milk and docility.

I feel the SH will bring greater hardiness and longevity into the equation that the SIM. Seeing the recent photo of the 480kg 10mo CVV bull weanling produced from a small stocky type LM cow leads me to think the cow needn't be too big. A smaller cow suits marginal land that bit better aswell.

I like the breeding plan your talking of though, 2 generations LM followed by 1 generation other breed.

Shorthorn cow to charolais bull equals great cows if you get a heifer calf. And you get a great bullock from bulk calf. Much better cross than a lim off shorthorn I reckon.

redzerologhlen

I remember an artivle in the journal about 2 years ago of a lad up north with a commercial herd of shorthorn cows crossing to charolais I think. You wouldnt have faulted the cows to look at them, they were very wide at the hips. I always loved the look of creaga dice too, lovely looking animal. If you could get an easy fleshing strain of them rather than the hard fed ones a lot of people had you could be onto a winner. If its the boat you are aiming for they are best avoided though.

haybob

Lads I hate to resurrect old threads and I know it upsets the mods. I got my self a nice few shorthorn heifers for an outlying farm most of which i served with AI various shorthorn bulls, Im off the Kilfenora with the results next week, the ones that didn't ''Keep'' were served with a good limousine stock bull that crosses well with SIMX, HEX, CHX, LMX cows but the resulting progeny from the Limousine are a bit buttie and very hairy.

1) is it just my bull
2) I'm not crazy about a charloise for calvng reasons
3) Is there any point in buying a well bread short horn bull to serve them all (wicked little yokes I hear ) and will that pay as well as the AI hopefully will

Opinions welcome

just do it

haybob wrote: »

Lads I hate to resurrect old threads and I know it upsets the mods. I got my self a nice few shorthorn heifers for an outlying farm most of which i served with AI various shorthorn bulls, Im off the Kilfenora with the results next week, the ones that didn't ''Keep'' were served with a good limousine stock bull that crosses well with SIMX, HEX, CHX, LMX cows but the resulting progeny from the Limousine are a bit buttie and very hairy.

1) is it just my bull
2) I'm not crazy about a charloise for calvng reasons
3) Is there any point in buying a well bread short horn bull to serve them all (wicked little yokes I hear ) and will that pay as well as the AI hopefully will

Opinions welcome

The hairiness could be because they are out in tougher landscape and conditions? Definitely the SH can bring a bit more hair on the animal. The buttiness - the other cows you mention tend to be big framed cows. Possibly the SH heifers these ones are out of aren't as big? Hard to see its the bull as he's covered a broad range of cows with consistent results thus far. Of course it's possible he just doesn't cross well with SH.

What do you mean when you say "Im off the Kilfenora with the results next week"?

Not experienced enough to offer advice as to what bull to get for them. A few of the lads around Kilfenora would have the answer to that one though;). Drive around and looking in over the stone walls and decide which are the best looking weanlings!

redzerologhlen

just do it wrote: »

The hairiness could be because they are out in tougher landscape and conditions? Definitely the SH can bring a bit more hair on the animal. The buttiness - the other cows you mention tend to be big framed cows. Possibly the SH heifers these ones are out of aren't as big? Hard to see its the bull as he's covered a broad range of cows with consistent results thus far. Of course it's possible he just doesn't cross well with SH.

What do you mean when you say "Im off the Kilfenora with the results next week"?

Not experienced enough to offer advice as to what bull to get for them. A few of the lads around Kilfenora would have the answer to that one though;). Drive around and looking in over the stone walls and decide which are the best looking weanlings!

Ah your too far west all together jd Im guessing its the annual shorthorn sale thats on there!!

Black Smoke

haybob wrote: »

Lads I hate to resurrect old threads and I know it upsets the mods. I got my self a nice few shorthorn heifers for an outlying farm most of which i served with AI various shorthorn bulls, Im off the Kilfenora with the results next week, the ones that didn't ''Keep'' were served with a good limousine stock bull that crosses well with SIMX, HEX, CHX, LMX cows but the resulting progeny from the Limousine are a bit buttie and very hairy.

1) is it just my bull
2) I'm not crazy about a charloise for calvng reasons
3) Is there any point in buying a well bread short horn bull to serve them all (wicked little yokes I hear ) and will that pay as well as the AI hopefully will

Opinions welcome

Do you mean, charolais x lim by charloise?? Why do you expect increased calving difficulty?
I have been crossing AI lim to charly cows for years, for replacements. Whilst, you wouldn't be in danger of going over milk quota with them,;), they are super to fire out a calf, in my opinion:p I have just had no problem whatsoever with them. That said, I went this year, and bought in red lim heifers, which are 25%, british friesan. Just trying to get the milk supply back up in the herd.

haybob

Black Smoke wrote: »

Do you mean, charolais x lim by charloise?? Why do you expect increased calving difficulty?
I have been crossing AI lim to charly cows for years, for replacements. Whilst, you wouldn't be in danger of going over milk quota with them,;), they are super to fire out a calf, in my opinion:p I have just had no problem whatsoever with them. That said, I went this year, and bought in red lim heifers, which are 25%, british friesan. Just trying to get the milk supply back up in the herd.

I mean using a non ai well bred ch bull on shorthorn cows that haven kept from ai, I'm not crazy about the CH for calving reasons I've never had much luck with em.

Talking about milkie cows I have hex cows that must be out of monestorus friesians cows they produce great cattle out of my own bull


How would a saler cross with shorthorns ??

haybob

just do it wrote: »

The hairiness could be because they are out in tougher landscape and conditions? Definitely the SH can bring a bit more hair on the animal. The buttiness - the other cows you mention tend to be big framed cows. Possibly the SH heifers these ones are out of aren't as big? Hard to see its the bull as he's covered a broad range of cows with consistent results thus far. Of course it's possible he just doesn't cross well with SH.

What do you mean when you say "Im off the Kilfenora with the results next week"?

Not experienced enough to offer advice as to what bull to get for them. A few of the lads around Kilfenora would have the answer to that one though;). Drive around and looking in over the stone walls and decide which are the best looking weanlings!

Shorthorn sale in Kilfeneora mart saturday. I have good cattle out of a range of cows from this bull very happy, nice ai shorthorns too just a few middling crosses

just do it

redzerologhlen wrote: »

Ah your too far west all together jd Im guessing its the annual shorthorn sale thats on there!!

Now it makes sence .

just do it

haybob wrote: »

Shorthorn sale in Kilfeneora mart saturday. I have good cattle out of a range of cows from this bull very happy, nice ai shorthorns too just a few middling crosses

Best of luck and let us know how you get on

haybob

just do it wrote: »

Best of luck and let us know how you get on

got on great between €700 and €900 very happy.

I got a few for an out farm and to be honest they are lovely cattle to handle very hardy and now profitable