Insuring English car in Ireland?

martinstatic

I currently live in England, but will be going back and forth between England and Ireland a lot, and want to get insured there rather than here.
The problem I'm fearing having is address issues. I have a stable Irish address for my insurance, but my licence of course as my English address on it.
Will this cause a problem? I've heard that the address on the UK licence is purely for identification purposes (to contact me etc) and a conflict between that and the insurance address won't be a problem, but I'm just checking to see if anyone has conflicting licence and insurance addresses and if they've had any problems with it.
Thanks in advance!

(Also, I will check this later, but in general, do most Irish insurance companies insure use in England?)

Jordan537

not at all, i have a full uk licence with my old address on and been living in ireland for 2 years, never any questions asked.

martinstatic

Jordan537 wrote: »

not at all, i have a full uk licence with my old address on and been living in ireland for 2 years, never any questions asked.

cheers, what company did you insure with?

Atlantic Dawn

After 40 days or it could be 50 your Irish insurance company has to pass on your details to Revenue for VRT collection purposes for all foreign cars they insure, this will likely cause hassle if they are calling to your Irish address.

ABajaninCork

I take it the car has UK plates?

Then it shouldn't be a problem to insure in the UK. I had the same issue when moving over. In the end, I had to insure with Quinn (Liberty) as they were the only ones who would insure me both here and in the UK.

Just in case you get any hassle with the Gards, I'd carry a copy of a recent utility bill proving your UK address. The fact that you have a UK licence with a UK address should ensure they leave you alone.

ardmacha

The fact that you have a UK licence with a UK address should ensure they leave you alone.

It will do nothing of the sort, as people keep licences for years it doesn't say anything about where there are currently resident.

I cannot see how the OP does not have an address in England as he lives there and so that is what he should use for his insurance.

ABajaninCork

ardmacha wrote: »

It will do nothing of the sort, as people keep licences for years it doesn't say anything about where there are currently resident.

I cannot see how the OP does not have an address in England as he lives there and so that is what he should use for his insurance.

Didn't I also say to carry a copy of a recent utility bill proving his UK address???

It is also unclear whether the car has UK or Irish plates. The OP also states he lives in the UK. So yes, he has an address and should insure the car there. IF he has UK plates...

martinstatic

Yeah, it's UK plates and I have a UK address, but I'll be spending much more time in Ireland than England, so I'd rather have Irish insurance. Not to mention the prices are cheaper there (at least with Liberty, I've just checked some quotes and was pleasantly surprised).
Once again, thanks for the feedback

ABajaninCork

OP. If you have a UK car with UK plates and a UK address, then AFAIK you won't be able to get Irish insurance. You'll have to insure in the UK.

If you're spending a lot of time here, then check the policy carefully. I think you can drive and be covered for a period of 90 days. Now I'm not sure if that's 90 days in total or 90 days at a time. You'll need to check.

sean1141

If you want irish insurance sell your english car and buy one here or change it to Irish plates (pay vrt, tax and nct). Afaik Irish insurance companys will only cover a current policy holder for 30-60 days on a uk etc plate so they can get vrt and test sorted.

pitachu

OP, I know your main concern here is insurace, but it may be worth considering that (and this is from memory so I'm open to correction), if you will be spending more time in Ireland than the UK (as you say), as far as the revenue are concerned you are resident in Ireland. You will need to register the car in Ireland as residents or Ireland are not permitted to drive cars registered outside the state.

This is all from memory (5+ years ago when I looked into it) so will need to be checked with the revenue.

martinstatic

Spot on, I was just reading up on that now. It seems I'm better off getting a cheap Irish car, the registration fees are pretty high from what I've just enquired. Thanks though.

Young driver, it's a complete nightmare, one of the first bend-overs to prepare you for all the others coming in

keithclancy

You can drive a UK registered car in Ireland for as long as you want as long as you can prove you still have ties in the UK.

However you cannot get insurance on a car, in a country you are not resident in.

So Irish plates + Insurance is the way to go.

pitachu

This link would contradict that:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/coming_to_live_in_ireland/importing_car_into_ireland.html

But, as with most things in Ireland, there is difference between what is technically allowed and what people actually do/get away with.

rebel.ranter

You may be exempt from the registration fees (VRT) if you fulfill a number of criteria. Like ow long you have owned the car in the UK, that you don't intend on selling the car on immediately, etc.
I would research this option before doing anything else. Have a permanent place of residence in Ireland while you're here? i.e. You're not staying hotels for all the time that you are here?

sunnysoutheast

rebel.ranter wrote: »

You may be exempt from the registration fees (VRT) if you fulfill a number of criteria. Like ow long you have owned the car in the UK, that you don't intend on selling the car on immediately, etc.
I would research this option before doing anything else. Have a permanent place of residence in Ireland while you're here? i.e. You're not staying hotels for all the time that you are here?

The VRT exemption is only for a permanent change of residence from UK to Ireland. They will request proof of this.

OP - I think you will have to insure the car in the UK. Any UK policy should cover the bare minimum third party provision in any EU country. Liberty (nee Quinn) has "territorial limits" of IE and UK with no restriction, I have been with them for years for this very reason as I used to live in the Uk and travel over a lot, I now have an Irish policy which covers me in the UK too. As far as I am aware if you insure a UK car on an Irish policy they are obliged to report it to the authorities.

Incidentally I have a UK (paper) license and there is apparently no way of exchanging this for an Irish one without sitting your test again!

SSE

sunnysoutheast

keithclancy wrote: »

You can drive a UK registered car in Ireland for as long as you want as long as you can prove you still have ties in the UK.

However you cannot get insurance on a car, in a country you are not resident in.

So Irish plates + Insurance is the way to go.

It's a little more strict than that, you have to be non-resident in Ireland. It's also illegal for an Irish resident to drive the car under any circumstances.

I'd expect, however, that this would only be tested when/if you are involved in an accident and the insurers start digging for the truth.

SSE

keithclancy

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

It's a little more strict than that, you have to be non-resident in Ireland. It's also illegal for an Irish resident to drive the car under any circumstances.

I'd expect, however, that this would only be tested when/if you are involved in an accident and the insurers start digging for the truth.

SSE

Nope, its very basic:
http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/leaflets/temporary-exemption-foreign-registered.html

If a person's occupational ties are in a different country from his/her personal ties, then the country of personal ties is taken as the normal residence provided the person returns there regularly.

Which is in line with:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:31983L0182:en:HTML

1. For the purposes of this Directive, "normal residence" means the place where a person usually lives, that is for at least 185 days in each calendar year, because of personal and occupational ties, or, in the case of a person with no occupational ties because of personal ties which show close links between that person and the place where he is living.

However, the normal residence of a person whose occupational ties are in a different place from his personal ties and who consequently lives in turn in different places situated in two or more Member States shall be regarded as being the place of his personal ties, provided that such person returns there regularly. This last condition need not be met where the person is living in a Member State in order to carry out a task of a definite duration. Attendance at a university or school shall not imply transfer of normal residence.

So if I go to work in Ireland and my Wife remains here, as long as I return here on a regular basis then I don't need to register my car, even if I have an address in Ireland.

Same when I was commuting between the Netherlands and Germany and had an address in both.

And this stuff about Customs taking the car away, their breaking their own guidelines unless they have proof:

http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/foi/s16/investigations-prosecutions-enforcement/enforcement/chapter-5-guidelines-and-proofs-for-specific-excise-offences.pdf?download=true

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sunnysoutheast

keithclancy wrote: »

Nope, its very basic:
http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/leaflets/temporary-exemption-foreign-registered.html



Which is in line with:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:31983L0182:en:HTML



So if I go to work in Ireland and my Wife remains here, as long as I return here on a regular basis then I don't need to register my car, even if I have an address in Ireland.

Same when I was commuting between the Netherlands and Germany and had an address in both.

And this stuff about Customs taking the car away, their breaking their own guidelines unless they have proof:

http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/foi/s16/investigations-prosecutions-enforcement/enforcement/chapter-5-guidelines-and-proofs-for-specific-excise-offences.pdf?download=true

Page 5

You still have to be and remain non-resident in Ireland though, right?

SSE

keithclancy

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

You still have to be and remain non-resident in Ireland though, right?

SSE

Not relevant, as long as you can prove your ties are in the EU Member state that the car is registered in and you can prove you return there on a regular basis (regular being at least every 6 months)

sunnysoutheast

keithclancy wrote: »

Not relevant, as long as you can prove your ties are in the EU Member state that the car is registered in and you can prove you return there on a regular basis (regular being at least every 6 months)

The first link you posted is specifically about foreign-registered vehicles being brought into Ireland by a non-resident and the rules for personal and occupational ties. I fail to see how you can regard that as not relevant to this discussion.

If you have any test cases, proof or evidence for the six month rule I would be genuinely interested in seeing it.

SSE

ABajaninCork

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

Incidentally I have a UK (paper) license and there is apparently no way of exchanging this for an Irish one without sitting your test again!
SSE

Incorrect. If you have an EU licence it can simply be exchanged for an Irish one as long as the original licence is still valid. If it is more than 10 years since the licence expired, then yes, you'll have to sit the test again.

You don't even have to exchange the licence if you don't want to. As long as it's valid (EU & EEA only), you can drive on it here.

galwaytt

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Incorrect. If you have an EU licence it can simply be exchanged for an Irish one as long as the original licence is still valid. If it is more than 10 years since the licence expired, then yes, you'll have to sit the test again.

You don't even have to exchange the licence if you don't want to. As long as it's valid (EU & EEA only), you can drive on it here.

A UK paper licence doesn't expire - it's good 'til you're 70 yrs of age

keithclancy

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

The first link you posted is specifically about foreign-registered vehicles being brought into Ireland by a non-resident and the rules for personal and occupational ties. I fail to see how you can regard that as not relevant to this discussion.

If you have any test cases, proof or evidence for the six month rule I would be genuinely interested in seeing it.

SSE

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66206906&postcount=101

ABajaninCork

galwaytt wrote: »

A UK paper licence doesn't expire - it's good 'til you're 70 yrs of age

Not quite right. Yes, the licence is good until the day before your 70th birthday. But if you have a paper licence and you move house, then you have to get a photocard licence which costs £20. If there'e endorsements on the licence then I think you have to exchange it for a photocard as well.

sunnysoutheast

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Incorrect. If you have an EU licence it can simply be exchanged for an Irish one as long as the original licence is still valid. If it is more than 10 years since the licence expired, then yes, you'll have to sit the test again.

You don't even have to exchange the licence if you don't want to. As long as it's valid (EU & EEA only), you can drive on it here.

Not what I was told when I moved to Ireland in 2007. There was, and I checked this exhaustively, no mechanism for changing the paper licence for an Irish one. If you have a UK ten year photocard licence they could exchange that alright.

The advice was to write my Irish address on the "new address" section. It's stood up to three garda checkpoints so far.

SSE

sunnysoutheast

keithclancy wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66206906&postcount=101

So the wife is regarded as non-resident in Ireland through her occupational ties in the UK?

In any case I think people can follow the guidance and make their own minds up now.

SSE

martinstatic

The car is UK Reg
Licence is UK
I have both a steady UK and Irish address

Basically, can I get insured in Ireland was my original question.
After reading replies (and replies to replies), searching up on VRT and whatnot, I've found that contrary to what was said here, Liberty Insurance DO indeed offer the minimum requirements for all of EU which is good (as they're also damn cheap).
Money is a factor, and as such, I'm at a bit of a loss at the moment. It seems to be a lose lose situation.

Edit: And yes, Liberty will insure a UK car.

ABajaninCork

Liberty will insure a UK car. That has always been the case. When it was Quinn they were the only ones who would insure me both here and in the UK. When I moved, all I did was inform them of the Irish address until I got the car VRT'd.

But the point you seem to be missing is this:

IF you insure the UK car from an Irish address, then legally Liberty are required to inform Revenue if the car's plates aren't changed over within 60 days.

Just insure with Liberty from your UK address. Simples!

martinstatic

Liberty doesn't insure to a UK address sadly...
Edit: Ah you mean using the Irish address? I'll need to check their rules, don't wanna commit fraud!

ABajaninCork

No. I meant insure to your UK address!

Marcusm

ABajaninCork wrote: »

No. I meant insure to your UK address!

The UK part (or more properly car insurance book) of Quinn didn't get bought by Liberty. It's still run under the Quinn name.

keithclancy

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

So the wife is regarded as non-resident in Ireland through her occupational ties in the UK?

In any case I think people can follow the guidance and make their own minds up now.

SSE

Residence for other things (Tax,Social Security etc) is a totally different kettle of fish.

I have both, residence in Germany and the Netherlands with my Primary residence declared in the Netherlands.

You need residence to have a bank account and other things.

Its just in Ireland you don't have a form for it.

For your car, its just where your home is, its as simple as that.

You don't need to get all amateur 'tax expert' on it