Anyone here ever do a U-turn?

wylo

Ok, Im probably asking in the wrong place, but im wondering are there any lurkers or even active posters that have went from atheist to non-atheist?
Im sure its rare, but Id be interested in knowing your experiences.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

i spent an afternoon convinced john lennon was the second coming of christ

but i was uh... not in my right mind

gbee

Did you read the very active thread on the blogger that found Jesus.

One has to be mentally strong to be a content atheist, knowing what's going to happen to one can be a lonely spot, having Jesus, Mary and Joseph crowding around you, washing your feet and wiping you sweaty brow can make all the difference, I'm sure.

However, I feel short changed as I was brought up as a Roman Catholic and the reward the Muslims get is far more attractive TBH.

Sonics2k

I've uh, had similar experiences to Sir Digsby...

Except it was based around the Undertaker back in the late 90's/early 00's...

Good times.

wylo

My post is more directed at anyone , they dont necessarily have to have become a jesus loving christian per say, just someone who became a non atheist, or even turned agnostic.

gbee

wylo wrote: »

My post is more directed at anyone , they dont necessarily have to have become a jesus loving christian per say, just someone who became a non atheist, or even turned agnostic.

I don't think your post makes real sense, because, IMO almost everyone is brought up in a religion and they firmly believe that their parents, teachers and closest friends would not lie to them.

Most average girls or boys will start to see through the façade from an early age and arrive at their own conclusions, probably becoming Agnostic first and then professing Atheism.

In other words, it's a progression, one questions or one does not and belief is just that, one can't decide to be an Atheist, one just is because other people are jealous of your freedom and once you're satisfied with that freedom, one does not tend to worry about a 'mistake' and then decide to reverse the journey.

wylo

agreed, but sometimes I wonder can that very same questioning actually lead back to agnosticism if done at an even more intense level than simply questioning the existence of what we've been told about Jesus, Mary, God and anything Catholic or religious for that matter.

GarIT

Yeah, I wen't from Roman Catholic to Athiest to Pastafarian. Only to take the p*ss though.

18AD

My upbringing was devoid of religion. Except in school, but I never believed in it, and my folks didn't care for religion at all. It was pretty much a non-issue.

I've gradually become enamoured with most religion. Can't get enough of the stuff. (It's a lot safer than opium :pac:)

Burt Lancaster

wylo wrote: »

Ok, Im probably asking in the wrong place, but im wondering are there any lurkers or even active posters that have went from atheist to non-atheist?
Im sure its rare, but Id be interested in knowing your experiences.

There's not that many, but you do come across a few.
e.g. PDN the mod on the Christianity forum was an atheist. He's now a Christian Pastor. You'll find one or two others over there as well.

Galvasean

wylo wrote: »

My post is more directed at anyone , they dont necessarily have to have become a jesus loving christian per say, just someone who became a non atheist, or even turned agnostic.

Well that last bit doesn't make too much sense as pretty much every atheist in existence is also agnostic. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Pushtrak

I went from referring to myself as an atheist to agnostic to atheist, but this was just labels. I've never found the idea of an interventionist deity convincing so I go by the strong atheist label. I can't really dismiss the deistic type in the same way interventionist deities can be seen as nonsense. I don't find the logic in the deistic philosophy persuasive though. So, no, never went anywhere in the territory of being a god botherer.

wylo wrote: »

My post is more directed at anyone , they dont necessarily have to have become a jesus loving christian per say, just someone who became a non atheist, or even turned agnostic.

You'll find most people here don't have to turn at all to be agnostic. As it is part of the identity they have for themselves in agnostic atheist.

wylo wrote: »

agreed, but sometimes I wonder can that very same questioning actually lead back to agnosticism if done at an even more intense level than simply questioning the existence of what we've been told about Jesus, Mary, God and anything Catholic or religious for that matter.

I think you are expecting hard atheism when you think atheist. Which is a positive belief in no deities. This isn't what atheism is.

Fortyniner

I guess that once you consider that religion is irrational, then generally speaking, the more you encounter religion the more irrational it becomes. Many atheists on this site will have studied more and more about religions since becoming atheists, and this leads them to be further convinced of their atheism.

The movement away from religion is made in spite of the whole range of threats from isolation to death to eternal damnation. There are no such threats hanging over the heads of atheists, yet very few become religious.

wylo

I think you are expecting hard atheism when you think atheist. Which is a positive belief in no deities. This isn't what atheism is.

True alright. But then im wondering why do we use the word atheist, is it that there are atheists out there who assert the non existence of a god? I cant imagine there being too much of them.

wylo

18AD wrote: »

My upbringing was devoid of religion. Except in school, but I never believed in it, and my folks didn't care for religion at all. It was pretty much a non-issue.

I've gradually become enamoured with most religion. Can't get enough of the stuff. (It's a lot safer than opium :pac:)

Thats interesting, and do you believe in a god? Or to give you more room, lets call it an intelligence or awareness undetected by humans and science.
Or is it just a case that you just find religion interesting?
Also, did something happen to you or was it just a gradual interest in the subject?

Sorry bout the nosiness , just curious really

Pushtrak

wylo wrote: »

True alright. But then im wondering why do we use the word atheist, is it that there are atheists out there who assert the non existence of a god? I cant imagine there being too much of them.

Theism = believing in a god
Atheism = Not believing in a god (Not believing there is no god.)

If you are explaining your position in terms of belief, and not having it for god, you are an atheist. If you are to talk about knowledge, you are talking about agnostics.

So, "I'm agnostic on that" = having no basis for knowledge or insufficient basis for knowledge.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_QdYoufb0UsQ/TAimA3truGI/AAAAAAAAAA4/pcR-muRgp8c/s1600/Agnostic+v+Gnostic+v+Atheist+v+Theist.png

wylo

Ah right cheers, so theyre not referring to the same thing. (ie belief in god)

marienbad

Just the one time I was in that foxhole , but only until that shell passed over , I swear it. The only time I s*&t myself as well and ever since I associate God with s*&t and shells - can't help it.

Daftendirekt

I've recently become a Christian.

For a long time I was unconvinced by most of the arguments for God's Existence. But I encountered one in particular that made me sit up and take notice (you can read it here).

After that, I started looking at the World with newly opened eyes. How is it possible that the Universe could be so precisely fine-tuned to support life? I still believe in Evolution, but something obviously had to set the chain in motion. I choose to call that something God.

I also think the Gospel contains a lot of Fascinating Insight into the Human Condition but its Teachings have to read with an open heart before they can really be absorbed by a non-believer. This video helped me interpret Jesus' message, in a way that made sense to me.

Sarky

Daftendirekt wrote: »

I've recently become a Christian.

For a long time I was unconvinced by most of the arguments for God's Existence. But I encountered one in particular that made me sit up and take notice (you can read it here).

I haven't actually seen that one before. I'll have to read it more fully later, but at a glance it seems pretty reasonable and not one of the usual retarded unfounded pieces of crap you normally get posted in here in support of religion.

Daftendirekt

Sarky wrote: »

I haven't actually seen that one before. I'll have to read it more fully later, but at a glance it seems pretty reasonable and not one of the usual retarded unfounded pieces of crap you normally get posted in here in support of religion.

I agree. The cosmological argument eats its dust.

God bless.

gbee

Sarky wrote: »

I haven't actually seen that one before. I'll have to read it more fully later, but at a glance it seems pretty reasonable ....

Bet this threads turns into a Mass U-Turn as the whole board finds Jesus.

What do we do, hands on the screen?

smokingman

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

i spent an afternoon convinced john lennon was the second coming of christ

but i was uh... not in my right mind

Had a chat with John Bonham dressed as jesus once; he didn't like my shoes.

Ah good times...

Burt Lancaster

wylo wrote: »

Anyone here make a U-turn?

Nah, but I can make her eyes roll if I time my strokes right. baaaaa

strobe

Out of curiosity Wylo, is this something you have personally experienced? Were you an atheist and are now not? If so, would you care to share your own experience and reasons etc?

Considering all the speculation etc that is going on in the "Atheist blogger..." thread re: her motivations etc, it'd be cool (as long as everyone bes cool) to have a situation where questions could be asked and answered of someone who has 'done a U-turn'.

=======

saspeir

I, no longer call myself an atheist...

I'm now a secularist.

I hate that my belief system is dependent on the idea of a God to indicate that I don't believe in one. I am spiritually independent and don't need religion to define my set of beliefs.

wylo

strobe wrote: »

Out of curiosity Wylo, is this something you have personally experienced? Were you an atheist and are now not? If so, would you care to share your own experience and reasons etc?

Considering all the speculation etc that is going on in the "Atheist blogger..." thread re: her motivations etc, it'd be cool (as long as everyone bes cool) to have a situation where questions could be asked and answered of someone who has 'done a U-turn'.

=======

Hey Strobe,
Well, firstly, I think I was more of a hardcore atheist than many people around me, to the point that it used annoy when people talked of silly paranormal stuff, so I was probably a bit extreme, snobbery and close minded in that sense compare to most people. But Ive had fairly massive changes on how I view the world the past 15 months (you may remember my obsessive ranting about a year ago on the self illusion ), as in direct experiential changes, not just changes in opinion.

The changes have went from experiencing no I, to experiencing that nothing is essentially seperate in the way we see from our indivuality perspective, to beginning to see an emptiness and a lack of objective and inherent existence in everything, thankfully to keep me from thinking Im going insane I try and read as much physics, neuroscience and biology to try and understand what I may feel like im interpreting.

So, the biggest thing that hit home to me was how little we actually know about this world, as in , to the point that even physics is simply based from OUR perspective, and all it is is a set of measured and tested parameters that are confirmed via our senses, which dont always tell the truth. Now, thats not exactly big news. Any physicist Im sure will agree with that, its just not something I had personally thought about.

Lots of stuff has been thrown up in the air recently for me, we dont have a clue about consciousness/awareness, I simply assumed that awareness was my own personal experience owned by me. But its like the unexplained elephant in the room. Then you look at quantum physics which is another ball game altogether that highlights more strange and weird stuff about the nature of reality. There is nothing to say AT ALL anymore that in 1000 years time, current Newtonian physics and Classical mechanics will be simple ONE view of whats actually going on.

Now, Im not saying that any of that is a reason to start believing in some intelligent aware higher being or creator, cause I dont believe in God. But , to be honest, I have become really really really agnostic, as in to the point that I genuinely dont feel comfortable AT ALL saying God doesnt exist. And to the point that when people report stuff, be it stuff like Near Death Experiences, God, Oneness, etc etc , or experiences around death of a family member etc, im no longer going to write it off as some psychological condition within the parameters of what we know based on our senses, that people apply to comfort themselves.

I know this is more of a philosophical issue, but when you start pondering stuff like how another animals experience of this world is entirely different and how neither one of us have the "right" experience, or even deeper, like to be alive or dead cant possibly be more than a concept when viewed from a sub-atomic perspective ,I just cant write anything off as wrong any-more.

Anyway, I posted here cause I can see how if you were near certain circles, or had little interest in physics that suddenly huge experiences could be interpreted as "God", and you could quickly become a believer. Its beyond me how people start becoming catholics or joining religions, but its not beyond anymore how people start experiencing at least a subtle argument for God.
And maybe one day humans will turn around and say "Ok, all that religious stuff for the last 30k years was a bit ridiculous , but the core reasoning as to what they were trying to grasp was actually true, and heres why......(insert scientific evidence of God here)"

So I havent done a U-turn on my position of there being no God, but Ive done a U-turn on what I think other peoples reports are based on.

Nervous Wreck

wylo wrote: »

Anyway, I posted here cause I can see how if you were near certain circles, or had little interest in physics that suddenly huge experiences could be interpreted as "God", and you could quickly become a believer. Its beyond me how people start becoming catholics or joining religions, but its not beyond anymore how people start experiencing at least a subtle argument for God.
And maybe one day humans will turn around and say "Ok, all that religious stuff for the last 30k years was a bit ridiculous , but the core reasoning as to what they were trying to grasp was actually true, and heres why......(insert scientific evidence of God here)"

So I havent done a U-turn on my position of there being no God, but Ive done a U-turn on what I think other peoples reports are based on.

So your epiphany boils down to:

We still haven't discovered 99% of the universe
v
If people are gullible and too lazy to think about physics
v
God is the next 'logical' answer...


Or did I read that wrong...?

wylo

Yep, you read it wrong, I was answering Strobes question as to where my motives for asking this question comes from.
And I want to know about their experiences, cause now Im willing to listen, whereas in the past no matter how hard I tried to listen I was rejecting certain things because I didnt trust 1st person reporting.

MrPudding

saspeir wrote: »

I, no longer call myself an atheist...

I'm now a secularist.

I hate that my belief system is dependent on the idea of a God to indicate that I don't believe in one. I am spiritually independent and don't need religion to define my set of beliefs.

Do you hate that you sex is dependent on which sex organs you posses, or that you nationality is base, at least initially, on where you were born?

You are now a secularist a term that would not be necessary if there was no religion. So your belief system is now based on the idea of religion rather than the idea of god. go you.

It is a word that describes a single element of something you believe. Whether you like it or not, you are an atheist, just like you are probably a man if you have a penis.

MrP

joseph brand

Burt Lancaster wrote: »

There's not that many, but you do come across a few.
e.g. PDN the mod on the Christianity forum was an atheist. He's now a Christian Pastor. You'll find one or two others over there as well.

Interesting point.

There's only a couple of reasons that explain how someone could go from Atheist to Theist.

I believe that the person would either have to:
1. Have had something terrible happen in their life. Religion then might seem like the best 'medicine' to cure their mental pain. The idea of a loving God who will make everything better for them in 'heaven' sounds lovely. (Hit rock-bottom)
Or
2. It makes good business sense. You can become a pastor, make LOTS of money and enjoy all the trappings that come with having these 'divine' rights. Pastors tell their flock how to live their lives. (Power)

Stark

gbee wrote: »

Bet this threads turns into a Mass U-Turn as the whole board finds Jesus.

What do we do, hands on the screen?

I don't know. I've tried both the starting a dog's arse and the staring at the following pic for 10 mins then staring at a white wall trick and still can't find him.

saspeir

MrPudding wrote: »

Do you hate that you sex is dependent on which sex organs you posses, or that you nationality is base, at least initially, on where you were born?

You are now a secularist a term that would not be necessary if there was no religion. So your belief system is now based on the idea of religion rather than the idea of god. go you.

It is a word that describes a single element of something you believe. Whether you like it or not, you are an atheist, just like you are probably a man if you have a penis.

MrP

George Holyoake, first user of the term secularism said the following:

Secularism is not an argument against Christianity, it is one independent of it. It does not question the pretensions of Christianity; it advances others. Secularism does not say there is no light or guidance elsewhere, but maintains that there is light and guidance in secular truth, whose conditions and sanctions exist independently, and act forever. Secular knowledge is manifestly that kind of knowledge which is founded in this life, which relates to the conduct of this life, conduces to the welfare of this life, and is capable of being tested by the experience of this life.

Source is Wikipedia.

Which goes with what I said earlier. My thought process with regards spirituality is independent of religion also. It is mine, it is personal and not solely dependent on me not believing in God or religion (that is only part of it). Yes, I am without God, therefore atheist, but I do not call myself atheist. It's too narrow and simplistic for my liking.

Galvasean

saspeir wrote: »

Yes, I am without God, therefore atheist, but I do not call myself atheist. It's too narrow and simplistic for my liking.

Doesn't matter if you don't like it you're still an atheist. Of course you don't want it to define you which is fair enough as it is only one small part of who you are. However, you should not deny facts either.

saspeir

Galvasean wrote: »

Doesn't matter if you don't like it you're still an atheist. Of course you don't want it to define you which is fair enough as it is only one small part of who you are. However, you should not deny facts either.

What facts am I denying? The OP asked if any of us have done a U-turn.

I said the only thing I've changed is from calling myself an atheist to calling myself a secularist...

I think a few people have missed my point completely.