Nct test, something unusual???

David09

I brought an 08 mondeo for its nct today and noticed something unusual as I was looking through the window at the procedure.
After the car was driven in, the tester dropped the cover off the lower dash and connected up a cable to the car's diagnostic socket.

Just wondering why they did this? I didn't think that engine fault codes were part of the nct???

alo1587

Hmmm,maybe a warning light for one of the management systems (abs or emissions) came on while he was testing it,and he didnt want you coming back to him saying that "My car was fine until you tested it and now the engine light is on"

colm_mcm

Maybe that's how they determine the rpm doing emissions testing now? Was it a diesel?

The Dagda

Why didn't you just ask the guys at the nct centre?

David09

colm_mcm wrote: »

Maybe that's how they determine the rpm doing emissions testing now? Was it a diesel?

Yes, it is a diesel.


I didn't ask them, because there was a queue behind me and I was already furious at being presented with a fail sheet requesting another visit and €28 for a headlamp adjustment retest.

Yawns

David09 wrote: »

Yes, it is a diesel.


I didn't ask them, because there was a queue behind me and I was already furious at being presented with a fail sheet requesting another visit and €28 for a headlamp adjustment retest.

You were furious that your headlight alignment was off and needs to be corrected? You know how many knobs drive around at night time with missaligned lights that shine up and into eyes of oncoming drivers? It's a lot because most drivers you talk to about their lights don't seem to have a ****ing clue about them. The extent of their knowledge is I turn the switch and they come on...

Pov06

Not sure why you're complaining about another visit. If your car isn't up to scratch then you should fix it.

If you're gonna be complaining about a 28 euro retest charge then next time make sure your car is up to scratch before you do the first test.

David09

Pov06 wrote: »

Not sure why you're complaining about another visit. If your car isn't up to scratch then you should fix it.

If you're gonna be complaining about a 28 euro retest charge then next time make sure your car is up to scratch before you do the first test.

I asked in the first post why they plugged into the EOBD socket and I get lectured about what I already know only too well about headlamp alignment???


For your info, the alignment was too low. The reason I was furious was because it meant having to book in again and pay a retest fee for something that could be corrected by the 30 seconds use of a screwdriver. If it was the commercial doe test, this would have been done.

pegasus1

David09 wrote: »

The reason I was furious was because it meant having to book in again and pay a retest fee for something that could be corrected by the 30 seconds use of a screwdriver. If it was the commercial doe test, this would have been done.

Are the testers unionised? Like....not my job to adjust something....only to test stuff...probably not allowed to either..

Cosmo K

colm_mcm wrote: »

Maybe that's how they determine the rpm doing emissions testing now? Was it a diesel?

You won!

We use the obd connector to get the engine's rpm and temperature. As for the headlight alignment....we are not allowed to do any repair work. Nothing to do with union bs or anything like that, but where do you stop, if you start fixing stuff?

pegasus1

Cosmo K wrote: »

You won!

We use the obd connector to get the engine's rpm and temperature. As for the headlight alignment....we are not allowed to do any repair work. Nothing to do with union bs or anything like that, but where do you stop, if you start fixing stuff?

By having a simple fix it for a small fee setup located in a a corner of the test centre, ie. no labour intensive jobs!

This will stop the retest for simple fails, and make it fairer to the public!

colm_mcm

If the nct did that it'd e labelled a money making racket doing unnecessary jobs.

George Dalton

pegasus1 wrote: »

By having a simple fix it for a small fee setup located in a a corner of the test centre, ie. no labour intensive jobs!

This will stop the retest for simple fails, and make it fairer to the public!

Sounds good in theory but not practical in reality.

In a significant percentage of cases where cars fail the NCT on headlight alignment it isn't simply a matter of adjustment. Very often it is because the bulb is incorrectly fitted or the headlight itself has a broken adjuster or similar. What happens in those cases under this theoretical system?

In my opinion the current system is the correct one. It is fair because it is the same for everyone. At the end of the day the system is there for all to see in advance of doing the test. It is up to the owner of the car to make sure their car is ready for the test. If it fails on something as obvious as headlight alignment then the owner of the car has nobody to blame but themselves.

On a separate but not unrelated note:
1. I find it hard to believe that the OP could drive around in a car with lights set too low to pass the test without realising there was something wrong. Headlights would have to be set so low as to give you virtually no visibility at night before they would fail the test.
2. This being the case the OP should be glad that the NCT has identified this problem with the car. €28 is a small price to pay to be able to see where you are going IMO

the_syco

David09 wrote: »

The reason I was furious was because it meant having to book in again and pay a retest fee

Are you sure you don't either get a free retest within X amount of days, or a visual check next time? It depends on the fault, but the retest is not always all doom and gloom.

Cosmo K

pegasus1 wrote: »

By having a simple fix it for a small fee setup located in a a corner of the test centre, ie. no labour intensive jobs!

This will stop the retest for simple fails, and make it fairer to the public!

That was actually tried a couple years ago in a limited number of test centers. It had something to do with the midterm contract review process. As a result of the midterm review, test centers were given a supply of light bulbs and some tools. The trade wasn't exactly happy about it, and it simply took to long. Have you ever tried to change a Renault Megane headlight bulb? Same for the adjustment of headlights, that works fine on newer cars, but on older cars, were the adjusters are seized, no thanks, I don't need that.

I can however totally understand when people are pissed off, because they have to pay another 28 euros just to have their lights checked again. Than, on the other hands, you have cars coming back for Re-tests, that are actually full tests. Sometimes a proper 2 page Re-test takes just as long as a full test. Should they have to pay 55 euros?
The system isn't a 100% fair, but what system is? Maybe, if enough people got on to the RSA, they might look at the issue, you never know. They come up with new ideas on a weekly basis these days....:rolleyes:

dr.fuzzenstein

Have been through the NCT several times with various cars.
I failed once on headlights (years ago) and after that made sure they're always done.
Once I know the alignment is correct, I don't go near it again, even after changing bulbs.
Never failed again.
The lesson is: If you haven't put a car through the NCT yourself, get them lights adjusted.
Once they're done and you don't go near anything to do with adjustments, you should be fine.
But putting a car through the NCT where you don't know for sure is asking for a fail.
Most retests are free, but since they have to test your lights on the machine, the fee applies and it's only fair.
Before the NCT most cars where looking for birds in the trees.

barneygumble99

David09 wrote: »

I asked in the first post why they plugged into the EOBD socket and I get lectured about what I already know only too well about headlamp alignment???


For your info, the alignment was too low. The reason I was furious was because it meant having to book in again and pay a retest fee for something that could be corrected by the 30 seconds use of a screwdriver. If it was the commercial doe test, this would have been done.

what if he went to adjust it with a screwdriver and the adjuster was broke, all the time while the customer is looking at him through the window. then it would still fail, and the customer would be thinking the tester adjusted it to fail. hence, money making racket all over again. do people also want testers to put water in the washers, to remove hub caps etc as roy keane once said 'fail to prepare , prepare to fail'.

LLU

Cosmo K wrote: »

You won!

We use the obd connector to get the engine's rpm and temperature. As for the headlight alignment....we are not allowed to do any repair work. Nothing to do with union bs or anything like that, but where do you stop, if you start fixing stuff?

Didn't you used to use your own meters for that? I remember seeing a tester pointing what I thought was an IR thermometer at the engine once. What if the sensors in the car were inaccurate? Just curious.

Cosmo K

LLU wrote: »

Didn't you used to use your own meters for that? I remember seeing a tester pointing what I thought was an IR thermometer at the engine once. What if the sensors in the car were inaccurate? Just curious.

We still use the IR temp gun, but using the obd is actually easier. That is, if you can find the fecking obd connector...

A-Trak

Sorry for the bump but seemed like the most relevant and recent thread.

What level are headlights tested at? If a car has a switch to contol the headlight level, is the test at the highest setting?

Mine has 0 to 3, 0 being the highest level.

aujopimur

A-Trak wrote: »

Sorry for the bump but seemed like the most relevant and recent thread.

What level are headlights tested at? If a car has a switch to contol the headlight level, is the test at the highest setting?

Mine has 0 to 3, 0 being the highest level.

Tested at 0

tony melia

my car failed n c t it,s a 2000 daihatsu terios 5 door hatchback 1.3 petrol .i badly need drivers door window switch ,this switch operates both windows driver and passenger ,tried most of breaker yards with no luck I would be grate ful if anyone has one or can tell me where to get one

ANTO

A-Trak

aujopimur wrote: »

Tested at 0

Makes sense I suppose.
Failed on both sides too high. Was wondering afterwards if I should've said "Shure I'll just diall it up a number or two boss," and seeing if he'd pass me

Yawns

It's tested at 0 but I have heard they are not too anal about it. I was advised to set it to 0, adjust lights until the top of the light reached about line with the bonnet opening. I did mine against the Lidl wall in the dark, passed no probs.

Tallon

My dad showed me a trick years ago, it worked for me

Drive up to a wall, put your lights on, draw a dot / line where the centre of the lights are. Then back away from the wall a bit, and the lights should more or less be level still, if not, ajust

Ronnie Beck

tony melia wrote: »

my car failed n c t it,s a 2000 daihatsu terios 5 door hatchback 1.3 petrol .i badly need drivers door window switch ,this switch operates both windows driver and passenger ,tried most of breaker yards with no luck I would be grate ful if anyone has one or can tell me where to get one

ANTO

Try a main dealer if your stuck.

faceman

Yawns wrote: »

You were furious that your headlight alignment was off and needs to be corrected? You know how many knobs drive around at night time with missaligned lights that shine up and into eyes of oncoming drivers? It's a lot because most drivers you talk to about their lights don't seem to have a ****ing clue about them. The extent of their knowledge is I turn the switch and they come on...

That's similar to my relationship with my TV yet no one judges me because of it.

milltown

A-Trak wrote: »

Makes sense I suppose.
Failed on both sides too high. Was wondering afterwards if I should've said "Shure I'll just diall it up a number or two boss," and seeing if he'd pass me

That adjuster is to bring the lights down if you're carrying a heavy load in the back, causing the front to rise up. The highest setting (0) still needs to be low enough not to dazzle oncoming traffic.

Yawns

faceman wrote: »

That's similar to my relationship with my TV yet no one judges me because of it.

But I bet you can't drive your tv around the country blinding other road users whilst doing it.

I wouldn't comment on if someone wasn't very good with technology however when a person behind the wheel of a car with the ability to end another person's life extremely easily due to ignorance, carelessness or just plain stupidity I would like to think they can at least keep the car in a decent roadworthy condition and miss-aligned headlights is not a decent roadworthy condition among many other things which we see on our roads day in and day out.

cjt156

faceman wrote: »

That's similar to my relationship with my TV yet no one judges me because of it.

Does your TV weigh about a ton and move about at up to 120 kph within a few feet of lots of soft, squishy, carbon-based life forms?

Merch

Given the increasing frequency of NCT's and due to more cars getting older and being replaced with less new cars, I'd have thought the headlight issue would be staying away.
It makes me wonder why I'm still getting blinded going around the place.

faceman

cjt156 wrote: »

Does your TV weigh about a ton and move about at up to 120 kph within a few feet of lots of soft, squishy, carbon-based life forms?

Only when its thrown out the window.

As frustrating as it being in the presence of vehicles with misaligned lights, are there any stats or figures on the impact it has on Irish roads? Have there been any fatalities or crashes resulting directly from it?

HellFireClub

David09 wrote: »

I asked in the first post why they plugged into the EOBD socket and I get lectured about what I already know only too well about headlamp alignment???


For your info, the alignment was too low. The reason I was furious was because it meant having to book in again and pay a retest fee for something that could be corrected by the 30 seconds use of a screwdriver. If it was the commercial doe test, this would have been done.

In the trade, that's known as performing work on a clients car without authorisation, something the vast majority of people kick up & cause a scene over when they find it on a bill, hence why it's not just "done" anymore.

Also, it can often be the case that the headlamp is not actually poorly adjusted, but is poorly mounted, if a mounting is broken, causing the whole headlamp assembly to be misaligned, as opposed to the headlamp lens being incorrectly adjusted/too low/too high and establishing the cause of a headlamp beam alignment issue is outside the scope of the NCT test parameters.

As for your original query, the only way you could have gotten the answer to that would be to ask the tester, it's certainly not part of the NCT process unless something has changed recently. For liability purposes, it's hard to see them going near this end of things.

Yawns

faceman wrote: »

Only when its thrown out the window.

As frustrating as it being in the presence of vehicles with misaligned lights, are there any stats or figures on the impact it has on Irish roads? Have there been any fatalities or crashes resulting directly from it?

I've no official stats other than it seems most nights I drive I'll have a few on coming cars with miss-aligned lights and at least once on a motorway I'll have to flick the rear-view mirror down because one of the lights of the car behind will be shooting up into the mirror and reflecting into my eyes diminishing my vision of the road. When they go past I can flick the mirror back up and be fine.

Unfortunately you will never be able to get the stats of miss-aligned headlight being a cause to or part of a RTA. The offending car wouldn't be inspected unless it actually hit the other car and if it did hit the other car, what's to say the impact didn't damage the headlamp.

The only way to get any sort of stats on badly aligned headlamps on our roads is to have the gardaí stop any they come across and issue a set fine for a miss-aligned light. Over time the statistics would should something but not even the true picture then. Worryingly tho there's far greater things wrong with our roads that miss-aligned headlights.

HellFireClub

Yawns wrote: »

faceman wrote: »

Only when its thrown out the window.

As frustrating as it being in the presence of vehicles with misaligned lights, are there any stats or figures on the impact it has on Irish roads? Have there been any fatalities or crashes resulting directly from it?

I've no official stats other than it seems most nights I drive I'll have a few on coming cars with miss-aligned lights and at least once on a motorway I'll have to flick the rear-view mirror down because one of the lights of the car behind will be shooting up into the mirror and reflecting into my eyes diminishing my vision of the road. When they go past I can flick the mirror back up and be fine.

Unfortunately you will never be able to get the stats of miss-aligned headlight being a cause to or part of a RTA. The offending car wouldn't be inspected unless it actually hit the other car and if it did hit the other car, what's to say the impact didn't damage the headlamp.

The only way to get any sort of stats on badly aligned headlamps on our roads is to have the gardaí stop any they come across and issue a set fine for a miss-aligned light. Over time the statistics would should something but not even the true picture then. Worryingly tho there's far greater things wrong with our roads that miss-aligned headlights.

Look, it's not "official statistics", that you need to see the extent of the problem, stand at any busy road at night and you'll see that around 15% of cars passing you have defective headlights. It isn't unusual now to see cars with no lights at all on one side or even both headlamps gone in the pitch dark.

Same problem as everything else in this country:

(1) Lack of compliance.

(2) People don't have the money in a lot of cases to get the problem rectified, yet will continue driving the car at night due to (1) above, because as we all know in this country, it's a case of "sure I'll have whatever you're having yourself"...

slimjimmc

Merch wrote: »

Given the increasing frequency of NCT's and due to more cars getting older and being replaced with less new cars, I'd have thought the headlight issue would be staying away.
It makes me wonder why I'm still getting blinded going around the place.

There are loads of reasons why aim can be off between NCTs.
Bulbs blow and get replaced badly and aim not checked.
Some don't use the level knob when carrying a load or passengers.
Some people tend to re-adjust their headlamps upwards to improve their view of the verge, especially on narrow country roads where you have to pull in to let anther car by.

Merch

slimjimmc wrote: »

There are loads of reasons why aim can be off between NCTs.
Bulbs blow and get replaced badly and aim not checked.
Some don't use the level knob when carrying a load or passengers.
Some people tend to re-adjust their headlamps upwards to improve their view of the verge, especially on narrow country roads where you have to pull in to let anther car by.

I meant when you can clearly see one headlamp misaligned,
into my face

Yeh, I make allowance for some stuff, but when I see one headlight moving like its loose or when one is clearly pointing out of alignment or someone is driving around with beams on to compensate for a known blown bulb/fogs on to compensate for blown bulbs in the back, even saw the odd person with 20W bulbs in the back, like they are driving around with brakes/fogs on all the time.

tayto lover

Had a NCT test recently in Dundalk. The guy wouldn't give me my cert until I turned two wheel nuts around. Great spot from him. The young lad who put my wheel back on after a puncture put two nuts back to front. Don't think it would make much difference though.

Gee_G

Right, quick question about my recent nct FAIL
Is your wheel alignment and stuff not tested? If it is and a couple of months ago I got four new tyres on the car at the same time, how did it fail on the front left tyre and the back right one?? It doesn't really bother me as I wasn't really prepared for the test,just curious! Might be a stupid question the answer might be obvious