Euro 2020?

pigtown

Todays announcement from Michel Platini that individual cities could be possible hosts for sections of the Euro 2020 football championship, as opposed to countries, is quite a radical suggestion that already has provoked some strong reaction from people opposed to the idea. http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/european-championship/2012/0630/327223-platini-hinting-at-euro-wide-championship/
Should this get the go-ahead I think it could be a huge opportunity for Limerick. If the city was to bid for a section of the championship and be successful then it could be a catalyst for a major revitalisation of the city. It would raise the profile of the place both nationally and internationally. Obviously a lot of work would be required to make this a reality but I don't think it's a totally off the wall idea.



Few ideas to start with;

• Shannon Airport. Not much needs to be done here. Plenty of room for an influx of fans, media, players.
• N18. Possibly could need an upgrade, closing off some of the many private entrances.
• Gaelic Grounds. Obviously the GAA would need to be on board. Assuming they are, there's already talk of a new Mackey Stand. This, coupled with the insallation of seating on the terraces and a temporary roof could be a 40'000 seater stadium.
• Acommodation. Already over 1'000 rooms in the city if I remember correctly. Obviously not enough and this would need to be expanded. Accommodation at the University could be used aswell. Camp sites could be opened at the old race course at Greenmount and another site, maybe to the west of the city to spread the supporters out.
• Media centre. UL Arena maybe, or a new temporary one built from scratch. As far as I'm aware this is regularly done at major EU summits outside Brussels so wouldn't be such a big deal.
• Fan zone. Redeveloped Arthurs Quay park coupled with pedestrianised Market Quarter and a temporary village at the docks, like Galway did/are doing for the Volvo Ocean Race.

So how could this happen?
Well the Limerick City and County councils as well as Clare County council would need to work with the FAI as a focused and united driving force with a clear plan as to what would be done and when. Meet LimerickShannon, the new airport authority and the government would also need to be involved but similar to the way Cork lobbied and pushed to get the Queen to visit last year, this has to come from Limerick.

If this suggestion from Platini is rejected and they go with the existing hosting model, Ireland is also considering a bid along with Wales and Scotland. Should they get the go-ahead I think Limerick should still push hard to be a host city. It's too good an opportunity to miss.

Clareman

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the Gaelic Grounds wouldn't be suitable at all for an international soccer tournament, ignoring the ban on non-GAA games being played in GAA venues, the Gaelic Grounds wouldn't be acceptable because
* No corporate sections
* Terraces behind the goal, you can't just put seats down and have it all seater.
* The pitch would have to be re-done
* Temporary roof.................. I'm not an engineer and I know there's been fantastic advancements in canter-leaver roofs, but I don't think any could be put in over the Gaelic Grounds without buy at least 100 houses.

As for working with the FAI as a focused and united force, that worked out well in the past..............

I could see Ireland having 2 potential venues (Aviva and Croke Park) with Limerick being a host city to a country for all the reasons you have outlined above, but include the sport facilities in UL and the potential to utilize Thomond Park.

BTW, I would imagine that for a stadium to be considered a venue for a pan Europe event it would have to be capable of hosting the Champions League Final, that would rule out the Aviva, I couldn't imagine the FAI wanting to pitch for a few games in a stadium that wasn't there's, it would be very bad PR for ticket sales imho

osarusan

I'd be one of those people opposed to the idea.

First of all, regarding Limerick as a possible venue - the idea behind Platini's plan is that existing stadia can be used, meaning host countries don't have to fork out hundreds of millions on new facilities ,what he calls an important factor in this economic crisis. So the idea of having a wider development of Limerick to become a viable candidate for hosting 4 games (Platini mentions 4) would seem to be exactly the opposite of the rationale behind the proposal.

From a football point of view, it seems like it would become a more expensive tournament for a fan to support, as even if groups were regionalised to some extent in terms of where matches were played, fans would probably need to spend even more on travel costs between countries.

Basically, my view is that if it isn't broken, don't fix it.

bazz26

The Public transport system in this country is a joke, we must be the only country in Europe where there isn't even a light rail system running from any of our major airports to the nearest city. How on Earth would we shuttle all those supporters to and from matches? The infrastructure simply isn't there and there is no hope of being there anytime soon. Nice idea though.

Kess73

Platini's idea of using up to 12 different countries (his actual words) for the one tournament has been pretty much panned since he first brought it up.

It simply won't happen becuase it would be a logistical nightmare, not to mention financially unviable for many of the hundreds of thousands of travelling supporters.

Even if Ireland could get a whiff of being used, Ireland simply does not really have a stadium outside of Dublin that would be able to be used in it's present condition.

Thomond Park, as is, is too small a stadium to meet the minimum qualifying criteria for capacity.

pigtown

Clareman wrote: »

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the Gaelic Grounds wouldn't be suitable at all for an international soccer tournament, ignoring the ban on non-GAA games being played in GAA venues, the Gaelic Grounds wouldn't be acceptable because
* No corporate sections
* Terraces behind the goal, you can't just put seats down and have it all seater.
* The pitch would have to be re-done
* Temporary roof.................. I'm not an engineer and I know there's been fantastic advancements in canter-leaver roofs, but I don't think any could be put in over the Gaelic Grounds without buy at least 100 houses.

As for working with the FAI as a focused and united force, that worked out well in the past..............

I could see Ireland having 2 potential venues (Aviva and Croke Park) with Limerick being a host city to a country for all the reasons you have outlined above, but include the sport facilities in UL and the potential to utilize Thomond Park.

BTW, I would imagine that for a stadium to be considered a venue for a pan Europe event it would have to be capable of hosting the Champions League Final, that would rule out the Aviva, I couldn't imagine the FAI wanting to pitch for a few games in a stadium that wasn't there's, it would be very bad PR for ticket sales imho

A new Mackey Stand could incorporate corporate facilities and dressing rooms.
The terraces could be retrofitted with the likes of this; http://www.safestandingroadshow.co.uk/the-proposal, used in Euro 2008.
Not an engineer either but I'm sure a solution could be found for the roof.
Not quite sure what you mean about the FAI.

osarusan wrote: »

I'd be one of those people opposed to the idea.

First of all, regarding Limerick as a possible venue - the idea behind Platini's plan is that existing stadia can be used, meaning host countries don't have to fork out hundreds of millions on new facilities ,what he calls an important factor in this economic crisis. So the idea of having a wider development of Limerick to become a viable candidate for hosting 4 games (Platini mentions 4) would seem to be exactly the opposite of the rationale behind the proposal.

From a football point of view, it seems like it would become a more expensive tournament for a fan to support, as even if groups were regionalised to some extent in terms of where matches were played, fans would probably need to spend even more on travel costs between countries.

Basically, my view is that if it isn't broken, don't fix it.

That doesn't mean they would disqualify you for proposing an upgrade to your infrastructure.

Kess73 wrote: »

Platini's idea of using up to 12 different countries (his actual words) for the one tournament has been pretty much panned since he first brought it up.

It simply won't happen becuase it would be a logistical nightmare, not to mention financially unviable for many of the hundreds of thousands of travelling supporters.

Even if Ireland could get a whiff of being used, Ireland simply does not really have a stadium outside of Dublin that would be able to be used in it's present condition.

Thomond Park, as is, is too small a stadium to meet the minimum qualifying criteria for capacity.

Thomond Park is too small but I believe the Gaelic Grounds could be upgraded. As far as I'm aware the capacity needs to be around 35'000. Easily doable in the GAA venue.

seachto7

If If If If If.........

If my aunty had bollix, she'd be my uncle.

This just ain't going to happen folks.

Again, if it did, you'd have all the ole ole olers out waving the flags, while the LoI would continue to go down the pan..........

Twin-go

No chance of this happening without some serious investment.

Having been at the Euros and attending games in Poznan and Warsaw, the Gealic grounds would need to be leveled and re-built in order to be to the standards of stadium required.

But it does raise another point.

I think any new stadium built in this country should be for all sports.

Limerick should have 1 50k seater stadium for all sports - rugby/gealic/soccer.

Every county in Ireland should have the same. 1 world class stadium in each county would optimise return on investment and go along way to make Ireland a suitable venue for a Rugby World cup or a Euro championships.

osarusan

Twin-go wrote: »

I think any new stadium built in this country should be for all sports.

Limerick should have 1 50k seater stadium for all sports - rugby/gealic/soccer.

Every county in Ireland should have the same. 1 world class stadium in each county would optimise return on investment and go along way to make Ireland a suitable venue for a Rugby World cup or a Euro championships.

2010 world cup needed only 10 stadiums.

I cannot imagine any way that there would ever be a return on the kind of investment your idea would require.

As an example, Cardiff City's ground (with no running track and a capacity of 27,000, I'm not sure it meets your requirements, certainly not in terms of capacity needed to host major football tournaments) which was finished in 2007, cost more than 50 million euros.

Kess73

pigtown wrote: »

A new Mackey Stand could incorporate corporate facilities and dressing rooms.
The terraces could be retrofitted with the likes of this; http://www.safestandingroadshow.co.uk/the-proposal, used in Euro 2008.
Not an engineer either but I'm sure a solution could be found for the roof.
Not quite sure what you mean about the FAI.



That doesn't mean they would disqualify you for proposing an upgrade to your infrastructure.



Thomond Park is too small but I believe the Gaelic Grounds could be upgraded. As far as I'm aware the capacity needs to be around 35'000. Easily doable in the GAA venue.

The Gaelic grounds would need a massive (and very expensive) overhaul to come close to the minimum safety standards required and also to get the minimum standard of seating etc.

In terms of capacity the Gaelic grounds would have no problem exceeding the minimum needed, but I think the expense of getting it ready for one game (two at the very most) would overshadow any financial gain from the game(s).


I think what would be more realistic (as well as being a big draw in terms of bringing people to Limerick), is the idea of staging pre season soccer tournaments in Limerick.The one that was originally planned for Thomond Park would have been quite a big attraction given the teams involved, and it could become a regular thing as gets seen in a number of countries each summer as part of pre season prep by teams.

europa11

G.A.A. pitches are far too big for soccer and rugby games as we witnessed when Croke Park was made available during the Lansdowne Road makeover. Crowd are too far away for one thing.

However, Thomond Park has been mentioned as a possible venue in the "Celtic Nations 2020" bid already. Similars gound in Swansea, The Liberty, and also Pittodrie in Aberdeen have also been mooted as grounds that would hold "minor games" in the expanded tournament - remember, 24 countries are in the Euros from now on, so not every game will be a sell-out and won't require huge capacities.

In the criteria for hosting the tournament there exists provision for certain stadia to accomodate 30,000. In TP's case it would require building a new stand (at the Balla End I'd imagine), and temporary installation of seating at the terraced areas.

Platini's plan I assume will envision potenial bids covering closely linked (geographically) nations....i.e.: Scandinavia, South-eastern Europe, etc,.

If Ireland did get a slice of any future tournament in a "North West Europe bid" scenario, I'd think we'd help host it along with the U.K, Netherlands and Belgium with 20 stadia being utilised, 2 of which would be in Ireland.

So why not Thomond Park.

PS: I presume Platini's plan doesn't give an automatic right to qualification to so many hosts, anyone know if he addressed that?

europa11

Kess73 wrote: »

......at the very most) would overshadow any financial gain from the game(s).


I think what would be more realistic (as well as being a big draw in terms of bringing people to Limerick), is the idea of staging pre season soccer tournaments in Limerick.The one that was originally planned for Thomond Park would have been quite a big attraction given the teams involved, and it could become a regular thing as gets seen in a number of countries each summer as part of pre season prep by teams.

The thin-skinned Mr. Delaney of the FAI has done his damn best to knock this excellent proposal, and infamously the Barcelona friendly :mad:.

We can only hope if (when) he's replaced some more enlighted FAI head honcho will sanction such tournaments.

pigtown

Europa11, I don't agree the size of the pitch would be an issue. The stadium in Kiev that held the final last night had an athletic track around it which I would guess is about the same size as a gaelic pitch.
Kess73, Platini was quoted as saying that each stadium would get 4 matches, same amount as in Poznan I think which appears to have been a huge boost to their economy.

If the only potential issue is the stadium then maybe some solutions could be found, a temporary stadium on a new site or maybe the funding for a redeveloped Gaelic Grounds could be found. The European Investment Bank could be a possible source of funding, or how about this scenario;

Lobby the government to provide some funding. There is talk of Ireland hosting the 2023 Rugby World Cup and Limerick would be bound to feature in such a venture. I think Thomond Park would still be too small so present it as killing two birds with one stone, using the redeveloped 40,000 seater Gaelic Grounds in both tournaments. The bill would be shared by the government, IRFU and GAA, and the GAA would still own the stadium. Munster would be entitled to use it for any matches that would be too big for Thomond Park. The GAA would obviously need a rule change but they have already indicated that they would be willing to consider such a thing if it would be beneficial to the country.

The end result would be two major tournaments coming to the city with all of the associated economic benefits that entails, and Limerick is left with a state of the art stadium, big enough to hold Heineken Cup quarter and semi finals meaning these matches stay in Limerick and don't go to Dublin, and also big enough to host Munster finals in what would possibly be the best GAA stadium in the country.

Cookiemunster

pigtown wrote: »

Kess73, Platini was quoted as saying that each stadium would get 4 matches, same amount as in Poznan I think which appears to have been a huge boost to their economy.

Poznan held 3 games.

pigtown wrote: »

If the only potential issue is the stadium then maybe some solutions could be found, a temporary stadium on a new site or maybe the funding for a redeveloped Gaelic Grounds could be found. The European Investment Bank could be a possible source of funding, or how about this scenario

The EIB loan money to governments to aid with strategic infrastructure projects. A temp stadium that would be used 3 times would never get EIB investment.

pigtown wrote: »

Lobby the government to provide some funding.

The government is bankrupt. Euro 2020 is 8 years from now, which means money for a new build stadium would have to be found in the next 3 - 4 years. We'll be lucky to have gotten rid of the IMF by then.

pigtown wrote: »

There is talk of Ireland hosting the 2023 Rugby World Cup and Limerick would be bound to feature in such a venture. I think Thomond Park would still be too small so present it as killing two birds with one stone, using the redeveloped 40,000 seater Gaelic Grounds in both tournaments. The bill would be shared by the government, IRFU and GAA, and the GAA would still own the stadium. Munster would be entitled to use it for any matches that would be too big for Thomond Park. The GAA would obviously need a rule change but they have already indicated that they would be willing to consider such a thing if it would be beneficial to the country.

If you honestly think that the IRFU would give money to the GAA to help develop a rival stadium less than a mile from Thomond Park your living in cloud cuckoo land. If the RWC came to Ireland Thomond would be big enough as it is.

pigtown wrote: »

The end result would be two major tournaments coming to the city with all of the associated economic benefits that entails, and Limerick is left with a state of the art stadium, big enough to hold Heineken Cup quarter and semi finals meaning these matches stay in Limerick and don't go to Dublin, and also big enough to host Munster finals in what would possibly be the best GAA stadium in the country.

Matches go to Landsdowne because its owned by the IRFU. The will never rent the gaelic grounds when they can make more money by moving the game to Dublin.
Also a 40000 stadium in Limerick would be a white elephant. Thomond is only full 3 - 4 times a season and thats with people coming from all over the provence. The Gaelic Grounds has NEVER been full and is already a white elephant.
I applaud your positivity, but your not living in the real world if you think it will ever happen.

pigtown

Ok it was one proposal. I'm sure there are others. I do think the respective councils and agencies should at least set up a committee to investigate whether or not this is feasable. At the end of the day somebody has to host it and its possible that Limerick could be a suitable host city.
This city really needs to start thinking big. Galway has the Volvo race for the second time in a few years, Waterford and Belfast had the Tall Ships race while Dublin will host it this year, and Derry has the Clipper Yacht Race. All of these are huge events, bringing in hundreds of thousands of visiters at a time. I think that the usual mantra is that we'll stage something small this year and build on it for the next. This is all well and good but usually it just peters out. The thing about hosting something big is the immediate impact of the huge crowds and also the fact that there is an imposed deadline and only one shot to get it right. There's no second chance to improve for next year so the organisers have no choice but to pull out all of the stops.

Clareman

I think there should be an attempt to get 1 of the World Rugby 7s tournaments held here

Twin-go

osarusan wrote: »

2010 world cup needed only 10 stadiums.

I cannot imagine any way that there would ever be a return on the kind of investment your idea would require.

As an example, Cardiff City's ground (with no running track and a capacity of 27,000, I'm not sure it meets your requirements, certainly not in terms of capacity needed to host major football tournaments) which was finished in 2007, cost more than 50 million euros.

We have too many below par and under used stadiums in the country.

Take Munster alone, right now Limerick has the Gealic Grounds (needs upgrading), Thomond Park and Limerick FC looking to redevelop the Markets Field.

Cork has Parc Ui Chaoimh (needs upgrading), Musgrave Park and Turners Cross.

Munster also have Simple in Tipp, Cussack in Ennis, Fitzgerald and Austin Stack in Kerry all of which are quite basic in terms of facilities.



They could build 2-3 world class stadia in Munster to replace these. Municiple Stadiums that all sports can use as well as having concerts and other events. They would pay for themselves and put Ireland in a position to host an event like the Euros.

The public transport question would be probably more difficult.