Why are weaker sides apparently getting weaker,especially in Hurling?

Freiheit

Antrim used never concede 8 goals in the past,Laois were competitive in the 90's,I remember Leitrim defeating Mayo en route to the Connacht title,last week loosing by 20 points. Why is the gap now apparently so much bigger than it used to be?

Clareman

I don't think the gap is any bigger than it was before, it's just that the game is becoming faster and more goal focused, once teams have a chance at goals they go for them, in the past, not so much. Also, the top teams would be a lot sharper/faster in their work

Littlehorny

Agree with you on this one OP, was just talking to a fella in work during the week about the same thing, i swear middle rank countys had stronger teams inyears gone by.

themandan6611

the gap in both codes is growing, there are just 2-3 hurling sides and 3-4 football teams who can win an AI which rules out approx 90% of the other teams. Some of the hammerings are just horrible to see

DEFTLEFTHAND

Hurling is an anomaly. Why aren't big counties producing teams. The argument is there that they are football counties but it shouldn't be, every county should be able to support both codes.

Westmeath, Carlow and Laois are making strides at underage in Leinster, I've hope that one day they can become competitive at senior.

Syferus

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Hurling is an anomaly. Why aren't big counties producing teams. The argument is there that they are football counties but it shouldn't be, every county should be able to support both codes.

Westmeath, Carlow and Laois are making strides at underage in Leinster, I've hope that one day they can become competitive at senior.

Most counties aren't able to support two codes at high levels. I know my own county would be near useless at football (the sport, if we're being blunt, we care about) if we had even a 35%-65% split with hurling, it's tread-bare enough as it is assembling competitive club, under-age and senior teams without the GAA cannibalising itself.

Counties that aren't traditional hurling powers and don't have the capacity to be one in the future should nurture the game and allow it to grow where there's an appetite but trying to force-feed it will never work, just ask Kilkenny and their football team - it just breeds insane contempt.

Tiernster7

The situation in Antrim is very strange . Loughgiel being all ireland club champions and not because they cakewalked ulster makes me think hurling isn't struggling there .

It sounds simple but the bigger teams really know how to bang in goals against the middle tier teams

Emmet Ryan

There's an economic argument as well. In a recession the weaker counties will feel the hit of players missing, either for emigration or other reasons, more than traditional powers who can usually absorb the hit. Anecdotally the runs for Wexford, Clare, Limerick, and Offaly in the mid 90s coincided with a big improvement on that front. The big counties wouldn't feel the benefit to the same degree as, they were never too far off their top level.

Now I'd be the first to say there's definitely an argument that all of that is bunk but it'd be interesting to see some research into it.

Flukey

The old "we can't support two games" argument is rubbish. If counties put the effort in, they can. Obviously counties like Cork have the resources for both, but lots of smaller counties, like Offaly, seem well able to support both. The will is there. "There is no interest" is another ridiculous one. Are you telling me that on All-Ireland Football final day that every radio and TV in Kilkenny is either off or tuned in to some completely different channel, or it is the same in Tyrone on Hurling final day? Every county has teams in both codes. Are you saying that you went up to a player on the weaker sport in a county and asked if he'd like to win an All-Ireland medal, that he'd say "No"? The interest is there, but it is not tapped into and promoted.

In some ways the counties that excel at one actually have an advantage. There are Kilkenny hurlers that would walk on to any county team in the country, but haven't a hope in hell of getting on their own county team. Rather than losing them altogether, give them the big ball! Many of the members of the Kilkenny hurling panel are well known locally to be pretty handy with the big ball too. Plenty of footballers in strong football counties are pretty good with a hurley too. Any successful county has the structures in place to give them that success. Those structures can easily be used to promote the weaker game. A county that is strong in one is actually better placed for success in the other than counties that are only average in both.

If certain county boards won't promote both sports and are therefore not doing their job, sack them and get in a county board that will. Micko is currently available. The county board in Waterford or Kilkenny or any other weaker football county, should be either ringing him or resigning. He could at least make them competitive, if nothing else. Some of the available top hurling people should also be getting phone calls from county boards. Any county is capable of getting their teams to a competitive level, if they get off their assess instead of peddling lame excuses.

premierstone

Flukey wrote: »

The old "we can't support two games" argument is rubbish. If counties put the effort in, they can. Obviously counties like Cork have the resources for both, but lots of smaller counties, like Offaly, seem well able to support both.

Micko is currently available. The county board in Waterford or Kilkenny or any other weaker football county, should be either ringing him or resigning.

Have you seen Offaly in either code in the last 10 years, they may be a dual county, but only in the sense that they are equally hopeless at both codes!

As for Micko and Waterford, Waterford couldnt afford to hire Mick Wallace never mind Mick O Dwyer.

Flukey

True, Offaly are not particularly good at present, but they are putting in the effort and they have shown in the past that it can be done. At the start of any year really only Cork and Galway would be considered of having some chance of doing the double, but there are a group of counties not far behind them and some have closed in on the bigger two. Offaly 1981 and 1982 being the great examples. They were in both finals in 1981, winning the Hurling, and but for a total cock-up by the Offaly goalkeeper Damien Martin in the last minute of the Leinster final against Kilkenny, they'd have been in the 1982 final and won it, and we know what happened in the football final that year. 30 years ago now, but only a few years before that you'd have been crazy to have suggested it could happen for the hurlers.

A weaker county has never and never will win an All-Ireland. However, former weaker counties have done and will do so in the future. A lot of counties out there now are weaker counties, but with a bit of effort they could be stronger counties walking up the steps of one stand or other to receive a trophy in the next few years or getting very, very close to doing so. You certainly don't have to go back 30 years to see examples. There have been several in the last decade alone. All it needs is a few county boards to get their fingers out, following the lead of those that have done it.

Syferus

It was alot easier to be good at two codes 15 to 30 years ago than it is now and most Offaly people will tell you that they simply lucked out with a completely exceptional bunch of hurlers in the 80's-90's -they were drawn from such a small pool compared to other hurling counties. They hadn't even won a single Leinster title until 1980.

It's pretty clear than their hurling success in that decade or so was the glorious anomaly the proved the rule.

You seem to assume every county has a population of 170,00 and all it takes is a bit of graft to be successful - the hurlers in Roscommon, Leitrim, Donegal, Westmeath, Mayo, Louth and Meath put in plenty of hard work but when there simply isn't enough players to go around no amount of well-wishing will change their lot.

I think Willie Hyland pretty much hit the nail on the head the other day when he made reference to his many tussles with Stephen Hiney down the years and the condition Hyland is in at present. Basically the overall preparation and investment that goes into the stronger counties couldnt be compared to the weaker ones

doc_17

As the effort and commitment has increased dramatically in the past 10 years or so I don't think the will is there from players in middle of the road counties to train as hard as everyone else and still lose. It's a massive commitment. And what do they get out of it? Apart from the pride of representing (and getting hammered in some cases) their counties and testing themselves at the highest level. In about 4 counties in hurling it's about winning an all Ireland. About 8 max in football. What is there for the weaker counties?

Making Wexford play Dublin 3 years running in croke park as well might be a contributing factor. Going after the buck instead of what the GAA should be about. Weaker counties need help, not odds being stacked against them.

In Donegal we can't even get the football club fixtures sorted. U don't no one what would happen there if there were an equal number of hurling matches to be played.

buck65

It's hardly the GAA's fault that Wexford have let Dublin slip past them 3 times in a row?!

doc_17

All I'm saying is that it's a huge disadvantage for Wexford to play championship matches at their opponents ground every year.

And there's talk now that the Munster football championship might go back to a seeded draw, further increasing the difficulty for weaker teams.

The added costs of preparing now are a huge problem for counties now

ft9

Have Kilkenny not been blamed yet?

doc_17

ft9 wrote: »

Have Kilkenny not been blamed yet?

Persecution complex!

But the qualifiers have also made it a bit more difficult for middle of the road teams. Bad enough trying to beat the likes of cork and Kerry once in the football without having to do it twice in the same year!

robbiezero

I think the introduction of the back door has hugely helped stronger counties also. they are no longer going to be out of the championship in May/ Early June so it is worth the huge investment, and an early championship surprise beating of a strong county by a weaker county usually just serves as a wake up call.
Makes it much harder for a weaker county to make a breakthrough.