Modern trucks v 80's/90's trucks

newmug

Hi all. The other day I saw a Ford D-series lorry for sale, and it got me thinking. What (if any) are the main differences in older type trucks and their modern counterparts? Why would a fella fork out big money for a new enough Iveco when he could have a classic Hino for a third of the price, and probably get vintage insurance for a lot less aswell?

Is there something I'm missing? Nowadays all you see are either plasticy looking Daf's and Iveco's (I call these washing machines because they all look like the same, like white appliances), or big fancy Volvo's and Scania's. Technology hasn't moved on that much, surely there cant be that much of an advantage with newer yokes? If 30 year old Bedfords are still good enough to be used as cattle lorries, what is the obsession with brand new, shiny, plastic-cabbed trucks for delivering bread and oil? It just doesnt make sense. Is it power, fuel efficiency, cheaper parts? Or is there something else I'm missing altogether?

Eric Cartman

carrying capacity, comfort and fuel economy have come pretty far. Also the mileage that some articulated tractors would cover, buying 2nd hand would send maintainence through the roof.

you can blame the EU and RSA for everything being made out of plastic though, its those pesky pedestrians being so frail when hit that ruined that.

TrailerBob

The newer machines are considerably more powerful, eg the 500 bhp Scania v8 has no comparative model from its 80's ancestry. They would be more fuel efficient, not to mention infinitely more comfortable, especially important considering how much time the driver spends in it.
I do se a few guys still running early 90's Scania 143's but obviously with a lot of them doing 100k or more a year it makes sense to keep maintenance costs down by buying new, also prevents loss of business from down time etc.

Another thing I've heard haulage companies talk about is their image, especially the bigger ones. Apparently shiny new trucks attract more business than dirty older ones..

newmug

Hmmm I dunno. I can see what both of you's are saying for bigger companies, but for the small fella, I just cant see the point.

Take tractors for example. Most old yokes have no power steering, no 4WD, only one PTO and one hydraulic spool. Newer tractors have all those things plus automatic gears, arms on front, oversized tyres etc., just a miltitude of advantages. However, there's no comparason price wise. A small farmer could buy a decent "old" tractor which will do him fine, for small enough money. Big contractors could lash out E100K for a modern tractor, but there's so many advantages that for them it would make sense.

Now, back to trucks. Take my local hardware. They have an old 1993 flatbed scania, does the job fine, they only have enough work for one truck, its gets one or two runs a day. Grand. But my local oil delivery fella, he buys a new Daf every 2 years, but there doesn't seem to be any major differences between them. Surely a 2010 yoke is as comfortable and powerful as a 2012 yoke? Or even a 2000 yoke for that matter? Now he's in financial trouble!!!

So this is what I'm asking. Is there any massive, cant-do-without difference between old yokes and new yokes technology-wise?

TrailerBob

Your example of the Hardware shop is a good one for running an older truck as its doing little mileage on local runs. No benefit for laying out big money on them right enough. It's down to what you need, big mileage = big money truck for most people
Likewise our family business runs a 99 Daf for delivery of turf, it does about 5 weeks work in the year. No way an outlay of 40k on a newer machine could be considered. In the yard beside it is 200 grand worth of tractors and machines, but they are the main way to make a living, older machines need too much maintenance

As for technology, the basics are all the same but no more than cars, computer input has increased

Slidey

80's trucks are obsolete for any long distance work. They are simply underpowered and nobody will drive them for you.
Some of the 90's stuff can still compete, the 143s, FH12s and the likes can still hang with the newer stuff and get away with it but again, getting a driver to run them for you would not b easy.

If you were an owner driver and a mechanic who could do your own maintenance it could be a possibilty.

As others have said, the newer trucks run more economically and with the price of diesel being what it is that is very important. Also there is a restriction for trucks running over 40t that they must have EBS fitted I think. Cant remember the exact weight it comes in at but the legislation is there.

newmug

So this:

http://mackf786.picturepush.com/album/206886/8170443/hino/hino-fh-92mh2163.html#column2::/album/206886/detail/8170442


would be costlier to run than this:

http://www.google.ie/imgres?q=Daf+75&hl=en&biw=1280&bih=856&tbm=isch&tbnid=KSzwpRr2BEfGOM:&imgrefurl=http://www.goyalive.com/daf-75-cf-250.html&docid=0jJQvLASZcdWWM&imgurl=http://www.goyalive.com/img/daf_75-cf-250_3564.jpg&w=360&h=270&ei=q6vwT4-qGoKwhAfZt8mQDQ&zoom=1


eventhough price-wise, there's thousands between them?

Eric Cartman

newmug wrote: »

So this:

http://mackf786.picturepush.com/album/206886/8170443/hino/hino-fh-92mh2163.html#column2::/album/206886/detail/8170442


would be costlier to run than this:

http://www.google.ie/imgres?q=Daf+75&hl=en&biw=1280&bih=856&tbm=isch&tbnid=KSzwpRr2BEfGOM:&imgrefurl=http://www.goyalive.com/daf-75-cf-250.html&docid=0jJQvLASZcdWWM&imgurl=http://www.goyalive.com/img/daf_75-cf-250_3564.jpg&w=360&h=270&ei=q6vwT4-qGoKwhAfZt8mQDQ&zoom=1


eventhough price-wise, there's thousands between them?

parts are harder to get, harder on fuel , more to go wrong with higher mileage, rust is more of a concern, possibly needs updating for newer DOE requirements.

If you were to put 100,000km onto each of those id say the difference would easily cancel out in the extra fuel and work the older truck would be.

Pottler

I work in massive haulage yards day in and day out. If you have a 98 Scania, paid for, hauling, owner driver V's a 2012 Iveco financed, I'd say the major difference is that the lad with the Scania is getting a wage, the lad with the Iveco is getting the ride, err, in a new truck..

newmug

Pottler wrote: »

I work in massive haulage yards day in and day out. If you have a 98 Scania, paid for, hauling, owner driver V's a 2012 Iveco financed, I'd say the major difference is that the lad with the Scania is getting a wage, the lad with the Iveco is getting the ride, err, in a new truck..

Thats what I thought. Thats why I was aking is there some major difference in technology, something that would make a newer yoke worthwhile. Cos if there isnt, I cant for the life of me understand why lads are so keen to export / scrap perfectly good older yokes and spend a decade's profit on something shiny.

Pottler

It's a well known fact that the only reason anyone drives a lorry is because they love driving lorries, especially shiny ones. You do not drive a lorry for the money.

volvoman480

Pottler wrote: »

It's a well known fact that the only reason anyone drives a lorry is because they love driving lorries, especially shiny ones. You do not drive a lorry for the money.

Amen to that......

It's grand to have an old motor doing local work, lash of multi drop fairly close to base. I have a couple in the yard for that very purpose. However, I spent the weekend in an 05 R500 Scania (bucket of bolts but that's another story), she has just under a million kms on the clock. Starting to rattle a bit and developing a few problems. She'll be a goner in another year or so. Another new one will replace her (hopefully a 480 Globetrotter!!). What's the point in holding on to her and facing huge repair bills, a large amount of wear and tear from our roads and annual tests that will require more work every year when I can have the pleasure of the new machine with warranty, less chance of breakdown and, for me anyway, a far more pleasant environment to work in.

volvoman480

mmmmmmmmm.... shiny................

Slidey

Doesn't FH stand for Fancy Hino?

volvoman480

Slidey wrote: »

Doesn't FH stand for Fancy Hino?

SACRILEGE!!!!!!!

Wash your mouth out with soapy water for that.......

newmug

volvoman480 wrote: »

Amen to that......

It's grand to have an old motor doing local work, lash of multi drop fairly close to base. I have a couple in the yard for that very purpose. However, I spent the weekend in an 05 R500 Scania (bucket of bolts but that's another story), she has just under a million kms on the clock. Starting to rattle a bit and developing a few problems. She'll be a goner in another year or so. Another new one will replace her (hopefully a 480 Globetrotter!!). What's the point in holding on to her and facing huge repair bills, a large amount of wear and tear from our roads and annual tests that will require more work every year when I can have the pleasure of the new machine with warranty, less chance of breakdown and, for me anyway, a far more pleasant environment to work in.

I suppose it all depends on what you need it for, and your individual situation.

volvoman480

newmug wrote: »

I suppose it all depends on what you need it for, and your individual situation.

Spot on fella.

Pottler

Truckers don't do religion, they devide by Manufacturer. DAF, Volvo, Scania, MAN - every one of them has a favorite, and a reason why the others are rubbish. And there are no fancy Hinos - they are a big boys Dyna -tough, crude and uncomfy!

newmug

Pottler wrote: »

Truckers don't do religion, they devide by Manufacturer. DAF, Volvo, Scania, MAN - every one of them has a favorite, and a reason why the others are rubbish. And there are no fancy Hinos - they are a big boys Dyna -tough, crude and uncomfy!

I dont know why, but I always thought they looked the best, especially older ones. Loads of chrome, just the right proportions, the logo that looked like it had wings, loads of extras. Ah I think I'll get one as a toy!


hino.jpg

Pottler

That's just so they look the part when they begin their second life after being exported - when we finish running them in for the Indians etc.

101sean

Couple of pics from Charleville 2010

eire-kp

Some 80s trucks for example an F12 etc would stack up well compared to a lot of modern American Trucks...now thay are real old technology...eg Road ranger crash boxs non self adjusting breaks ets..spent a while on them and its lovely once you get used to them...no clutch needed:D

I guess another reason for keeping older trucks of international work is the rather steep charge if you enter Londons LEZ zone in most pre euro 4 trucks, I think its £200 from midnight to midnight...so If you went in at 10pm and got out at 1pm its £400 please:eek:

It would pay a bit of finance!

volvoman480

A couple of tidy 336's and a Sh1t Heap 280 in those pics. Very straight 141 too. I see the truck of my dreams there as well, I loved those old F10's, I've had a few of them. God I loved them. They were the living proof of the old saying "have volvo, have air leak"

Slidey

A crowd I worked for had a Volvo F12, think it was a 420 though I suspect someone had being tinkering.

I couldn't keep with it in an old Transit and he had a tri axle bulker behind it on the Ballina Rd

volvoman480

Slidey wrote: »

A crowd I worked for had a Volvo F12, think it was a 420 though I suspect someone had being tinkering.

I couldn't keep with it in an old Transit and he had a tri axle bulker behind it on the Ballina Rd

If she was a 12, she might have been the 405 with EDC, fellas used to go mad playing with the pump. I knew a guy who had one opened out to about 450 odd, she went like a train until she cracked a sleeve.

I preferred the 10's though. Maybe it's just because that's what I started out on. An '81 F10, originally a 278bhp but replaced with the 299. She was a lovely auld yoke. She was well past her best when I got her, I was only 4 when she was built!!!:D

eire-kp

volvoman480 wrote: »

I preferred the 10's though. Maybe it's just because that's what I started out on. An '81 F10, originally a 278bhp but replaced with the 299. She was a lovely auld yoke. She was well past her best when I got her, I was only 4 when she was built!!!:D

Had an F10 as my first truck..3 years ago...Proper old school truck with 3 wiper blades:)

In fairness they must have been some step up at the time from the British built trucks.

volvoman480

eire-kp wrote: »

volvoman480 wrote: »

I preferred the 10's though. Maybe it's just because that's what I started out on. An '81 F10, originally a 278bhp but replaced with the 299. She was a lovely auld yoke. She was well past her best when I got her, I was only 4 when she was built!!!:D

Had an F10 as my first truck..3 years ago...Proper old school truck with 3 wiper blades:)

In fairness they must have been some step up at the time from the British built trucks.

Lucky man.. I miss my F10's... Been through there or four of them. Was your one the last of them with the slight wrap around dash taken straight from the FL???

newmug

Whats the Hino on the far right in the first picture? They're the ones I remember most from childhood days!

Slidey

Thats a SH tractor unit

eire-kp

volvoman480 wrote: »

Lucky man.. I miss my F10's... Been through there or four of them. Was your one the last of them with the slight wrap around dash taken straight from the FL???

No it had the straight dash...I used to prefer driving it compared to an FL10 they had.

Best memory with it was it had a habit of sudden loss of air for no reason and getting stuck in the middle of a junction unable to rev it to build up air quickly:o

Remember the air operated accelerator pedal:D

scan143

86 DAF 2500 unit i started out with, doing tipper work. Old school tipper with the donkey engine. wasn't a bad yoke seldom a breakdown. more of a scania fan meself. neighbour had a few 142's great truck plenty of power.

newmug

The aul lad used to have a six cyl Dodge cattle lorry. Ah memories.

volvoman480

eire-kp wrote: »

No it had the straight dash...I used to prefer driving it compared to an FL10 they had.

Best memory with it was it had a habit of sudden loss of air for no reason and getting stuck in the middle of a junction unable to rev it to build up air quickly:o

Remember the air operated accelerator pedal:D

I'll bet you every bob I have (which is feck all!!) that she was leaking from one of two places, either the valve at the very top of the gear box just behind the bell housing, or the range change unit at the back of the box. They were constantly leaking, the range change valve used to stick every now and then too. Take the entire valve off, strip it down, clean it up put a smear of vaseline on it and away she went again. When the valve would stick, she'd p1ss air out of the shuttle and your throttle would be gone in no time.



Things were simpler then...... How I miss my F10s

bren11

Also I think Volvo FH version 1 's up to 2002 were more reliable, than the later version 2 's. Electrical problems due to cable quality in wiring looms on version 2.

volvoman480

bren11 wrote: »

Also I think Volvo FH version 1 's up to 2002 were more reliable, than the later version 2 's. Electrical problems due to cable quality in wiring looms on version 2.

Some of them were poor alright. I've an 03 FM12 and she's given me a few small problems with the wiring. Mostly just in front of both front wheels where the loom is routed to allow for the cab tilt. That's my experience of them anyway.

Slig

Right now I'm mostly driving brand new Scania G400's and they are about as close to driving a car as you can get, The minute I'm out of the seat there is someone else into it. They are about 4 weeks old and are pushing 15K to 20K kms on the clocks already but apart from damage and routine maintenance they keep going and its no effort to keep everything working as it should be.

Before this I was driving a 1996 Scania 143 for another firm. It was constantly needing work, something was always broken or on the way out, she leaked/burned oil, the radiator leaked and she consumed a some amount of diesel. To add to that there wasnt alot of poke out of the 450HP V8 although it was smoky and noisy enough, the steering was heavy the trottle cable kept coming off its pully, lights and ABS were intermittent at best and the cab electrics were practically a lottery. Its not that it was particularilly badly maintained its just that there was always something different just wearing out. To get a DOE cost a bomb and there was always a very real risk of it either not starting or breaking down half way through the day. It was inevitable that a garda checkpoint would involve at least one fine. I dont know how much money was lost because the truck broke down before a delivery and was late, broke down in a yard and needed a mobile mechanic or needed to stop at a scania garage to get a quick fix on the way somewhere.

I suppose the reliability of a brand new machine is what you are paying for, even a 2 year old truck could have easily clocked up 400'000 to 500'000 kms which is alot of wear and tear on alot of different components.

newmug

I was in Dublin city yesterday, on the Kylemore road, and I saw what looked like a depot for old ESB trucks, just behind Laydex. Anyone know what the story is there?

Slig

newmug wrote: »

I was in Dublin city yesterday, on the Kylemore road, and I saw what looked like a depot for old ESB trucks, just behind Laydex. Anyone know what the story is there?

I assume it's where they are assembled before being auctioned off or scrapped, Tesco had a similar set up on the Kilshane rd. where all their old fleet were gathered to be de-badged I think.
An Post don't even auction off their old vehicles, the go straight to scrap.

Slidey

Aussies keep them going. Spotted this at the lights the other day. It was the old model with the quad round headlights

volvoman480

Slidey wrote: »

Aussies keep them going. Spotted this at the lights the other day. It was the old model with the quad round headlights

They were a great auld motor.. She was built between 84 and the middle of 89. She has the more curved roof of the later models but the air intake and four round lights of the earlier models. Feck it, I love my auld volvos......