My Idea for All ireland Senoir Hurling Tier 1 Championship

PTH2009

Liam Mccarthy Cup (10 teams)- Munster- Clare/Cork/Limerick/Waterford/Tipperary.
Leinster- Dublin/Kilkenny/Galway/Offaly/Wexford


Liam Mccarthy B Cup (6 teams)- Antrim/Carlow/Laois/London/Wiclow/Westmeath.



Liam Mccarthy Cup


Provincial Championships (Munster and Leinster)

Quarter Finals- 2 teams paired off- Winners Qualify for Provincial Semi Final – Losers Goes to All Ireland Qualifiers.

Semi Finals- 2 matches/ 3 teams and 1 winner of QF- Winners Qualify for Provincial Final and All Ireland Quarter Finals - Losers goes to All Ireland Qualifiers.

Final- 2 Semi finals winners-

All Ireland Qualifiers

6 teams (3 Leinster and 3 Munster) - contains teams that failed to make Provincial final.

Open draw – 2 groups of 3 teams. Teams are named A1/A2/A3 and B1/B2/B3. Each team will play 1 home game and 1 away game.

Match day 1- A1 vs. A2- B1 vs. B2
Match day 2- A2 vs. A3- B2 vs. B3
Match day 3- A3 vs. A1- B3 vs. B1

The 2 Teams that finish 1st place in Group A and Group B will qualify for the All Ireland Quarter finals.
The 2 Teams that finish 2nd place in Group A and Group B will qualify for the All Ireland Quarter Final playoffs
The 2 teams that Finish 3rd Place in Group A and Group B will be eliminated from the Championship.

All Ireland Quarter Final Playoffs- 4 teams- 2 matches

2 teams that finish 2nd in Group A and Group B will be paired against the 2 Liam McCarthy B finalists. The 2 winners will qualify for the All Ireland Quarter Finals.

All Ireland Quarter finals- 8 teams- 4 matches
2 Provincial Champions
2 Provincial Runners Up
2 Group A and Group B Winners
2 QF playoff winners

2 Provincial champions vs. 2 QF Playoff Winners (Open Draw)
2 Provincial runners up vs. 2 Group A and Group B Winners (Open Draw)

All Ireland Semi Finals- 4 teams- 2 matches
4 teams will be paired off, 2 winners Qualify for All Ireland Final



Liam McCarthy B Championship.

6 teams- Antrim/Carlow/Laois/London/Westmeath/Wicklow. (Wicklow and London Qualify as Christy Ring finalists 2012).

Open draw – 2 groups of 3 teams. Teams are named A1/A2/A3 and B1/B2/B3. Each team will play 1 home game and 1 away game.

Match day 1- A1 vs. A2- B1 vs. B2
Match day 2- A2 vs. A3- B2 vs. B3
Match day 3- A3 vs. A1- B3 vs. B1

The 2 Teams that finish 1st and 2nd place in Group A and Group B will qualify for the Semi Finals
The 2 teams that Finish 3rd Place in Group A and Group B will playoff for Relegation. Loser of the Relegation playoff will play in the Christy Ring Cup next year and the Winner of the Christy Ring cup will take there place.


Semi finals-
1st Group A vs. 2nd Group B.
1st Group B vs. 2nd Group A.

The 2 winners will qualify for the Liam McCarthy B cup final and the All Ireland Quarter Final Playoffs.
The 2 losers will be eliminated from the Championship.


This is my idea for future Liam Mccarthy Championships. I was thinking of emailing the GAA with this but there more chance of an Alien invasion than them taking notice of this system lol.

Anyway i would like some feedback on this system ???

Clareman

This is very similar to the groups system they had in the past, the issues with is there can be a huge gap for provincial winners cause of the playoffs, also there were a number of dead rubbers in the playoffs, but I think it definitely has it's merits.

liammur

PTH2009 wrote: »

Liam Mccarthy Cup (10 teams)- Munster- Clare/Cork/Limerick/Waterford/Tipperary.
Leinster- Dublin/Kilkenny/Galway/Offaly/Wexford


Liam Mccarthy B Cup (6 teams)- Antrim/Carlow/Laois/London/Wiclow/Westmeath.



Liam Mccarthy Cup


Provincial Championships (Munster and Leinster)

Quarter Finals- 2 teams paired off- Winners Qualify for Provincial Semi Final – Losers Goes to All Ireland Qualifiers.

Semi Finals- 2 matches/ 3 teams and 1 winner of QF- Winners Qualify for Provincial Final and All Ireland Quarter Finals - Losers goes to All Ireland Qualifiers.

Final- 2 Semi finals winners-

All Ireland Qualifiers

6 teams (3 Leinster and 3 Munster) - contains teams that failed to make Provincial final.

Open draw – 2 groups of 3 teams. Teams are named A1/A2/A3 and B1/B2/B3. Each team will play 1 home game and 1 away game.

Match day 1- A1 vs. A2- B1 vs. B2
Match day 2- A2 vs. A3- B2 vs. B3
Match day 3- A3 vs. A1- B3 vs. B1

The 2 Teams that finish 1st place in Group A and Group B will qualify for the All Ireland Quarter finals.
The 2 Teams that finish 2nd place in Group A and Group B will qualify for the All Ireland Quarter Final playoffs
The 2 teams that Finish 3rd Place in Group A and Group B will be eliminated from the Championship.

All Ireland Quarter Final Playoffs- 4 teams- 2 matches

2 teams that finish 2nd in Group A and Group B will be paired against the 2 Liam McCarthy B finalists. The 2 winners will qualify for the All Ireland Quarter Finals.

All Ireland Quarter finals- 8 teams- 4 matches
2 Provincial Champions
2 Provincial Runners Up
2 Group A and Group B Winners
2 QF playoff winners

2 Provincial champions vs. 2 QF Playoff Winners (Open Draw)
2 Provincial runners up vs. 2 Group A and Group B Winners (Open Draw)

All Ireland Semi Finals- 4 teams- 2 matches
4 teams will be paired off, 2 winners Qualify for All Ireland Final



Liam McCarthy B Championship.

6 teams- Antrim/Carlow/Laois/London/Westmeath/Wicklow. (Wicklow and London Qualify as Christy Ring finalists 2012).

Open draw – 2 groups of 3 teams. Teams are named A1/A2/A3 and B1/B2/B3. Each team will play 1 home game and 1 away game.

Match day 1- A1 vs. A2- B1 vs. B2
Match day 2- A2 vs. A3- B2 vs. B3
Match day 3- A3 vs. A1- B3 vs. B1

The 2 Teams that finish 1st and 2nd place in Group A and Group B will qualify for the Semi Finals
The 2 teams that Finish 3rd Place in Group A and Group B will playoff for Relegation. Loser of the Relegation playoff will play in the Christy Ring Cup next year and the Winner of the Christy Ring cup will take there place.


Semi finals-
1st Group A vs. 2nd Group B.
1st Group B vs. 2nd Group A.

The 2 winners will qualify for the Liam McCarthy B cup final and the All Ireland Quarter Final Playoffs.
The 2 losers will be eliminated from the Championship.


This is my idea for future Liam Mccarthy Championships. I was thinking of emailing the GAA with this but there more chance of an Alien invasion than them taking notice of this system lol.

Anyway i would like some feedback on this system ???

Well when you see the ridiculous scoreline today between LK and Antrim, something needs to be done.

I think a CL group stage with 2 pots of 5 teams, play each other, top 2 progress to the semi's.

jordainius

liammur wrote: »

Well when you see the ridiculous scoreline today between LK and Antrim, something needs to be done.

I think a CL group stage with 2 pots of 5 teams, play each other, top 2 progress to the semi's.

Ah Christ not the "Group Stage" suggestion again. There was a group stage used in the qualifiers from 2005 to 2007 and the final round of group games more often than not was nothing but dead rubbers, your suggestion requires 5 rounds, after 3 rounds one team will most likely be a nailed on qualifer and two teams will most likely be out of contention, plenty of dead rubbers in the final two rounds.

Knock out hurling means NO dead rubbers. Every game matters.

liammur

jordainius wrote: »

Ah Christ not the "Group Stage" suggestion again. There was a group stage used in the qualifiers from 2005 to 2007 and the final round of group games more often than not was nothing but dead rubbers, your suggestion requires 5 rounds, after 3 rounds one team will most likely be a nailed on qualifer and two teams will most likely be out of contention, plenty of dead rubbers in the final two rounds.

Knock out hurling means NO dead rubbers. Every game matters.

There'd be no dead rubbers, basically get rid of munster/leinster finals.

Then, for example:
Cork/limerick/galway/wexord/waterford in 1 pot

Dub/kk/offaly/tipp/antrim

best 2 qualify, and that's ur semi final. Nothing else will work.

Clareman

If anyone wants to think of a new hurling format they will have to include the provincial championships, there is no way the provincial councils are ever going to give up their cash cows.

liammur

Clareman wrote: »

If anyone wants to think of a new hurling format they will have to include the provincial championships, there is no way the provincial councils are ever going to give up their cash cows.

I think you are correct in saying that, but once the provincial championships are included, you can't have a proper restructuring.

And as for the cash cows, well the attendance so far this year have been really poor. Maybe the public will force their hand eventually.

Clareman

The Munster council are never going to give up their championships cause they know they will fill 2 out of Cork, Thurles or Killarney every year and can wax lyrically about final days in each venue.

There is also no reason why dominant counties in some provinces (e.g. Kilkenny in hurling, Cork/Kerry in football) would vote to dismantle the provincial structures as it could impact on their success.

jordainius

liammur wrote: »

There'd be no dead rubbers, basically get rid of munster/leinster finals.

Then, for example:
Cork/limerick/galway/wexord/waterford in 1 pot

Dub/kk/offaly/tipp/antrim

best 2 qualify, and that's ur semi final. Nothing else will work.

Did you even read my post?:rolleyes:

I'll say it again, after three of the five rounds of group games, one team will probably have a semi final place sealed while at least one teams season will be over. It could happen that on the final round of group games the top two will already have qualified, making the last round of games pointless challenge matches.

That rubbish system you propose would guarantee dead rubbers in the latter rounds, there are no dead rubbers at the moment but for the fact that some teams are way stronger than others.

liammur

jordainius wrote: »

Did you even read my post?:rolleyes:

I'll say it again, after three of the five rounds of group games, one team will probably have a semi final place sealed while at least one teams season will be over. It could happen that on the final round of group games the top two will already have qualified, making the last round of games pointless challenge matches.

That rubbish system you propose would guarantee dead rubbers in the latter rounds, there are no dead rubbers at the moment but for the fact that some teams are way stronger than others.

I completely disagree with you.

jordainius

liammur wrote: »

I completely disagree with you.

Care to elaborate???

liammur

jordainius wrote: »

Care to elaborate???

It's hard to elaborate on something so simple. What exactly are you having difficulty with?

jordainius

liammur wrote: »

jordainius wrote: »

Care to elaborate???

It's hard to elaborate on something so simple. What exactly are you having difficulty with?

It's easy to elaborate on the simple things actually. it's difficult to elaborate on things that are complicated or things which make no sense. To summarise, I asked you to elaborate on why you disagreed with my criticisms of your terrible championship format suggestion. You were unable to defend your system, and you still are which is why you have resorted to posting in the manner you have in your last two posts.

I don't really have any more to say to you as I have no interest in discussing anything with someone who has demonstrated such a blatant inability to have an actual conversation in terms of actually reading what a person says and in terms of the maturity of your responses when your views are challenged. Cheerio now.

Big Ears

liammur wrote: »

I completely disagree with you.

Do you not believe that if the top 2 teams in a group had already secured their semi-final spot, that the final round of games would result in glorified challenge matches which don't really mean anything (aka dead rubbers) ?

Also I don't believe many Munster folk would be in favour of abolishing the Munster Championship.

jdooley28

What would anyone think of the provincial competitions having nothng to do with the All-Ireland?

For the All-Ireland I'd be in favor of having say two groups of 5 eg(kk, clare, cork, galway antrrim), (offaly, wexford, waterford, tipp limerick) with top 2 in each group playing semi final and final.

3rd and 4th in each group play a semi final and final in a sort of shield competition to keep everyone interested.

Bottom two in relegation play off.

I think would go some way to reducig the amount of games where nobody has anything to play for which happens in many league/group based competitions.

I would run this competition completely sepeate to the provincial competitions. Maybe people feel thats too many games do? for example it would take 8/9 games to win both the All-irland and the counties respective provincial title. I think everyone can agree at least there is room for improvement on the current system!

jordainius

jdooley28 wrote: »

What would anyone think of the provincial competitions having nothng to do with the All-Ireland?

For the All-Ireland I'd be in favor of having say two groups of 5 eg(kk, clare, cork, galway antrrim), (offaly, wexford, waterford, tipp limerick) with top 2 in each group playing semi final and final.

3rd and 4th in each group play a semi final and final in a sort of shield competition to keep everyone interested.

Bottom two in relegation play off.

I think would go some way to reducig the amount of games where nobody has anything to play for which happens in many league/group based competitions.

I would run this competition completely sepeate to the provincial competitions. Maybe people feel thats too many games do? for example it would take 8/9 games to win both the All-irland and the counties respective provincial title. I think everyone can agree at least there is room for improvement on the current system!

Current system is about as good as we'll get. You can't run the provincial championships separately as nobody would give a damn about them anymore. And while the intention of your shield championship is to cut down on pointless dead rubbers, I'd imagine that the shield competition in itself would be a dead rubber, as I can't see too many counties placing any importance on the chance to be crowned Ireland's 5th best team.

The current system is a happy medium, no system is perfect and there are question marks over the qualifiers in terms of scheduling and how it is structured. A few tweaks are required there alright but the current system works well, every game matters. provincial success gives a county a straightforward route to the all Ireland so there is plenty of incentive there and the qualifiers themselves are do or die.

we don't need a league structure because we already have the national hurling leagues for that.

liammur

Big Ears wrote: »

Do you not believe that if the top 2 teams in a group had already secured their semi-final spot, that the final round of games would result in glorified challenge matches which don't really mean anything (aka dead rubbers) ?

Also I don't believe many Munster folk would be in favour of abolishing the Munster Championship.

No, because a team could be relegated from the group, and maybe westmeath or someone from the next tier promoted.

As for your 2nd point: I'm from munster and wouldn't mind seeing it go. I wonder what others feel about it tho?