Email problem - could it be at the mail servers?

Fogmatic

A wide range of possible causes make it one for the more general Computers and Technology forum; but before posting there, it would be very helpful to eliminate (or otherwise) a problem at the servers.
(I've had plenty of helpful suggestions elsewhere, and have already tried lots of things that are outside the scope of this forum).

A week or so ago, receiving and sending mail suddenly started taking a long time. Normally, the preliminary communications between here and the server (handshaking?) take just seconds. But it's now taking about 2 minutes, whether sending or receiving, which is remarkably annoying. I've taken to putting off doing it until I have a bunch of them (like I used to on a substandard pay-as-you-go dialup connection!)

After that, the mail gets downloaded/sent at normal speed. And web browsing is normal.
The problem seems to be independant of ping results. Occasionally I get lost packets, but that coincides with the effects of weather on my connection. Since the email problem started, the average round-trip ping speeds to the mail servers are often faster than to the addresses I have no trouble with, such as Google.

Is it possible for such a problem to be at or both of the mail servers? I thought at first that it would be too much of a coincidence, as it's with both sending & receiving. But maybe both servers are involved in both, so 1 server with a problem would affect all mail movement?

Incoming server is mail1.eircom.net, outgoing mail.airspeed.ie.

Fogmatic

I have texted the question to my broadband provider by the way, but no answer yet (he may be on holiday).

Sorry, I wasn't thinking straight at the end of posting 1 (something to do with being embroiled in troubleshooting).
Incoming mail (at least) must be independant of the other server, as mail can still be received when the wrong outgoing server address is entered.

My problem occurs when sending and receiving as separate operations (as in Thunderbird), as well as with send/receive as 1 button (as in Windows Mail).

ARGINITE

Who is your services provider and are you using the server setting that they recommend?

Fogmatic

Thanks Argenite. Sorry re delay; lost connection yesterday due an different problem just resolved.

Provider replied later and answered my question. There's apparently a problem with mail, due to something at the servers. So it's the servers' fault after all, not mine.
(A rest from troubleshooting, but no rest for patience!).

I'm even more confused now about the roles of incoming & outgoing servers (but I'm sure a search of this forum(s) will enlighten me).

In case it's still of interest, the firm I pay for the broadband is a small, very local provider called Antenna/Antenna Electronics. Does that make it my ISP?
Antenna seems to be in partnership with Fastcom. Outgoing mail server is mail.airspeed.ie.
I couldn't find anyone with the same problem at the same time on boards.ie, so maybe the problem's quite local. And maybe affecting fixed-wireless but not ADSL (no-one I've asked around here is having the same problem, but I don't know anyone to ask who's on fixed-wireless)

Yes, first thing I looked at was server settings. For anyone else with the same problem, more suggestions in this topic (it's in a Thunderbird forum, but not all re Thunderbird). http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2490755&p=12086801 Two others there were having similar problems at the time (country unknown, though). I also checked with my other computer (same software; hadn't been used or updated for a while). Same problem there of course.

Fogmatic

Forgot to say the offending mail servers are upstream (if that's the right word?) from my local ISP, so out of its control. (And that the incoming server is mail1.eircom.net).
I'd be curious to know of anyone else having this problem (not that there's a lot we can do about it!).

ARGINITE

Fogmatic wrote: »

Does that make it my ISP?

Yes.

The problem you are experiencing will only effect other users of the same mail server and if Antenna/Antenna Electronics are as small as you say they are finding other users on boards with the same issue would be hard.

Is it possible for such a problem to be at or both of the mail servers

Yes, but the set up seems a bit unusual, as they are using the free Eircom server for incoming mail?

so 1 server with a problem would affect all mail movement?

Since the incoming and out going seem to be on different servers one should not effect the other.

It might be worth your while opening a gmail account and setting it up to forward mail from your current address. Google for it and you should be able to find a guide.

Fogmatic

Thanks ARGENITE.
I don't know how local the fault is, except not as local as Antenna's setup, I presume.

I wouldn't know what's usual or unusual about the setup (and can't remember what a free server is exactly?). But mail1.eircom.net has been my incoming server for at least 8 years, going back to when Eircom was my ISP (with pay-as-you-go dialup). Then I changed to UTV (phone/internet bundle, still with dialup). When a new Antenna mast made broadband available, I moved to it for internet (leaving UTV as just my phone provider). All I had to change for that was the outgoing server.

I do have a Gmail account, though don't use it yet.
I use mail2web.com when I want to get/send mail online. Tried it just now and it seems as speedy as ever (no new mail to test it on at the moment, but it was able to say that pretty well instantly). Would the Gmail method save more time than that?

gibo_ie

Can you post the header of the email when it is recieved, or if you dont want to post it simply check the times it hits each mail server, the big gap should point directly at where your issue lies!

Fogmatic

Is the header the same as the message source? This is the message source of the notification email from your last posting (so I just removed my name). I don't know if it any help though? The story all seems to be about the few seconds after you posted, except for the 1 time that relates to when I downloaded the email.

Fogmatic

Well, I tried to (edit it, that is), because the link/image disappeared when I posted. If I press 'edit' it's still there, but I press 'save' and it doesn't! Is it just me?

gibo_ie

Fogmatic wrote: »

Well, I tried to (edit it, that is), because the link/image disappeared when I posted. If I press 'edit' it's still there, but I press 'save' and it doesn't! Is it just me?

Ok so the header shows flow is fine.do you have any delays if you use webmail directly on eircoms site?
I think your issue is connection related.try done tests from speedtest.net regularly for a good overall picture?

Fogmatic

Tried sending myself an email from Eircom webmail; same 2-minute handshaking before downloading, same kind of timing in header.
I'm still a novice at interpreting things. There were 2 times given in the middle of it that were an hour earlier; is that normal? There was 1 of them in yesterday's header from the non-web email.
Yes, speedtest.net is an old friend here! The handshaking takes just as long when the connection's fast as when it's slow (it fluctuates with the weather). Average roughly 1.5mbps down, 1 up. Around the time of today's email it was only .52 up (1 down), and I think download was over 2 around the time of yesterday's email (which was pretty good considering I pay for a theoretical 2 up, .5 down).
Here's today's header (hopefully) from Eircom webmail (image inserting thing turned out to be a quirk of Flickr). If this works I'll insert yesterday's header next. (Still couldn't insert an image, & could only paste the links using the browser, not the icon here).
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7272/7493862660_7dbc18fa28_z.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8152/7489580334_ea28545f71_z.jpg

Fogmatic

Continued over in the 'Ask Eircom' forum..... (any more suggestions here still most welcome of course!).

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056692656

Fogmatic

Well, (after nearly 2 weeks lin the Eircom forum), there's a fix on the horizon. But I can't claim to understand why it'll fix it, or why the problem occurred.

It did indeed turn out to be because of something at a mail server (upstream from my ISP).

What will fix it is getting migrated from an old incarnation of Eircom's webmail facility (which I can't remember ever using) to 'New Webmail'. The old webmail can store only 5mb, and the new one has 5gb (I'm not clear if or how that's connected to the slow authentication I'm getting). I'll be getting on the new webmail in 6-8 weeks.

You were right ARGENITE, about my having the incorrect incoming server. On Eircom's advice I've changed it to webmail.eircom.net (though it didn't help with this particular problem). mail1.eircom.net is apparently used exclusively for outgoing mail. Why it's been working as my incoming one in that case, is one of the many things I still don't understand. (Why the problem also affects my outgoing mail is another).

For any more detail, all I can suggest is to read the (2 pages so far) thread linked to above. What the man from Eircom says might make more sense to you.

Fogmatic

Another week of unanswered questions in the Eircom forum. So can anyone tell me if their final answer makes any sense?

That is, that my problem is down to my being on an out-of-date version of Eircom's webmail facility, and that their New Webmail will fix it. I can vaguely remember signing up for it in the distant past (though can't remember ever using it, except as a diagnostic tool for this current problem). I'd be interested to learn why it should suddenly cause this problem (and if anyone else had it). The Eircom people lack the time or inclination to expand on the subject.

It would be just too annoying if I waited for my New Webmail to kick in (another 3 to 7 weeks according to Eircom), only to find it didn't fix the problem!
I can't even get Eircom to tell me if there'll be some sort of sign when the webmail migration happens, or how I'll know whether it's happened or not.

Snowbat

Does your Antivirus software intercept incoming/outgoing mail to scan it? Could be a problem with that.

To rule out a DNS issue, can you temporarily enter the IP addresses of the servers instead of their names in your email client and see if it works any faster?
mail1.eircom.net has address 159.134.198.135
mail.airspeed.ie has address 77.75.103.66

Can you install WinMTR, run a test to your incoming and to your outgoing mail server, and post the results here?

Fogmatic

Thanks, Snowbat.
Sorry I didn't reply before, but a new development today made it seem a good idea to post in the Eircom forum before they went home! It's at the bottom of this page http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056692656&page=2
Eircom responded (on the next page). I composed a reply, then thought I'd better hold it back until I'd at least tried your suggestions and read any comments you might have time to make.

I haven't had my antivirus (AVG Free) scanning outgoing mail for years; just incoming. And the delays affect both incoming & outgoing. I'd tried several times sending/receiving with AVG disabled, and it never helped. I now have email scanning disabled both ways (having read opinions that it's superfluous).
I've tried turning off the software firewall, bypassing the router, and both at once (it didn't help).

Neither did entering the IP addresses of the servers instead of their names.

These are WinMTR results for; webmail.eircom.net (the incoming server Eircom told me to change to), mail1.eircom.net (the incoming one I used to use), and mail.airspeed.ie.

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| WinMTR statistics |
| Host - % | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
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| 192.168.1.1 - 0 | 11 | 11 | 1 | 9 | 44 | 4 |
| 192.168.2.1 - 0 | 11 | 11 | 9 | 19 | 74 | 12 |
| 77.95.160.129 - 0 | 11 | 11 | 40 | 71 | 165 | 44 |
| c6-v9-so.fastcom.ie - 0 | 11 | 11 | 48 | 79 | 165 | 53 |
| c1-v7-so.fastcom.ie - 0 | 11 | 11 | 44 | 73 | 150 | 44 |
| s1-v9-so.fastcom.ie - 0 | 11 | 11 | 46 | 84 | 166 | 46 |
| 88.151.80.185 - 0 | 11 | 11 | 39 | 76 | 166 | 47 |
| 88.151.80.178 - 0 | 11 | 11 | 47 | 81 | 147 | 55 |
| No response from host - 100 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| tenge-3-1-1.pe1.6cr.6cr-6cr.eircom.net - 0 | 11 | 11 | 50 | 83 | 151 | 57 |
| tenge-7-2-1.core1.bdt.core.eircom.net - 0 | 11 | 11 | 55 | 96 | 181 | 55 |
| tenge-1-2-1.pe1.crz.crz-crz.eircom.net - 0 | 11 | 11 | 47 | 87 | 151 | 58 |
| ge1-9.service3.cra.dublin.eircom.net - 0 | 11 | 11 | 50 | 83 | 151 | 62 |
| webmail.eircom.net - 0 | 11 | 11 | 54 | 87 | 151 | 54 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider

||

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| WinMTR statistics |
| Host - % | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
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| 192.168.1.1 - 0 | 8 | 8 | 1 | 6 | 9 | 6 |
| 192.168.2.1 - 0 | 8 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 19 | 9 |
| 77.95.160.129 - 0 | 8 | 8 | 52 | 73 | 126 | 62 |
| c6-v9-so.fastcom.ie - 0 | 8 | 8 | 50 | 62 | 99 | 51 |
| c1-v7-so.fastcom.ie - 0 | 8 | 8 | 47 | 71 | 132 | 54 |
| s1-v9-so.fastcom.ie - 0 | 8 | 8 | 54 | 80 | 130 | 71 |
| 88.151.80.185 - 0 | 8 | 8 | 55 | 79 | 131 | 75 |
| 88.151.80.178 - 0 | 8 | 8 | 58 | 85 | 117 | 72 |
| No response from host - 100 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| tenge-3-1-1.pe1.6cr.6cr-6cr.eircom.net - 0 | 8 | 8 | 68 | 96 | 142 | 75 |
| tenge-7-2-1.core1.bdt.core.eircom.net - 0 | 8 | 8 | 68 | 91 | 131 | 75 |
| tenge-1-2-1.pe1.crz.crz-crz.eircom.net - 0 | 8 | 8 | 69 | 97 | 142 | 87 |
| ge1-9.service3.cra.dublin.eircom.net - 0 | 8 | 8 | 58 | 90 | 132 | 78 |
| mail1.eircom.net - 0 | 6 | 6 | 75 | 87 | 105 | 79 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider

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| WinMTR statistics |
| Host - % | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
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| 192.168.1.1 - 0 | 23 | 23 | 0 | 4 | 71 | 1 |
| 192.168.2.1 - 17 | 12 | 10 | 10 | 238 | 841 | 141 |
| 77.95.160.129 - 13 | 16 | 14 | 42 | 279 | 892 | 47 |
| c6-v9-so.fastcom.ie - 13 | 16 | 14 | 67 | 284 | 854 | 67 |
| c1-v7-so.fastcom.ie - 13 | 16 | 14 | 48 | 218 | 907 | 48 |
| s1-v9-so.fastcom.ie - 13 | 16 | 14 | 47 | 111 | 356 | 51 |
| r2-v6-so.fastcom.ie - 13 | 16 | 14 | 0 | 206 | 715 | 58 |
| 88.151.80.69 - 19 | 11 | 9 | 76 | 291 | 899 | 116 |
| as103037.airspeed.ie - 6 | 17 | 16 | 57 | 276 | 895 | 188 |
| No response from host - 100 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider

I did the webmail.eircom.net one a second time (thought I'd failed to save the above one). The second results were like the above
airspeed.ie one, except with the top block of numbers differing slightly, and a column of 2s where airspeed has 4s.

Snowbat

Everything appears to be in order until the last table where we see something interesting... 17% packet loss at 192.168.2.1. As there is no packet loss in the other results tables, it looks to be intermittent. Is your router (192.168.1.1) daisychained off another router (192.168.2.1)? The connection between the two is not 100%.

Occasional packet loss is normal but >10% will degrade your link significantly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packet_loss

As a rule of thumb derived from day-to-day practical experience, in general with TCP/IP protocols a packet loss below 0.1% (1 lost packet in every 1000 packets) can be tolerated; anything higher will have more or less impact (depending on circumstances) and needs to be addressed.

Fogmatic

Ah - so that 1st column of numbers is packet loss (faint memories emerging, from 1980s evening classes; not that we could afford to put the comms into practice then!).

Thank you for your advice, and the link.
I hadn't noticed there were 2 IP addresses at this end! The Wimax cable comes into the house and plugs into a little box that has one Lan port (and a power connection). Does that makes it a router? I never thought of it as one (there being no choice of routes, so to speak). Whatever it is, it seems to have an IP address, as confirmed by connecting it directly to the computer, removing the 192.168.2.1 address thus;

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| WinMTR statistics |
| Host - % | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
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| 192.168.2.1 - 0 | 27 | 27 | 6 | 7 | 18 | 6 |
| 77.95.160.129 - 0 | 27 | 27 | 40 | 64 | 121 | 52 |
| c6-v9-so.fastcom.ie - 0 | 27 | 27 | 38 | 62 | 121 | 48 |
| c1-v7-so.fastcom.ie - 0 | 27 | 27 | 39 | 65 | 125 | 45 |
| s1-v9-so.fastcom.ie - 0 | 27 | 27 | 43 | 62 | 123 | 60 |
| 88.151.80.185 - 0 | 27 | 27 | 44 | 67 | 135 | 46 |
| 88.151.80.178 - 0 | 27 | 27 | 49 | 69 | 116 | 96 |
| No response from host - 100 | 6 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| tenge-3-1-1.pe1.6cr.6cr-6cr.eircom.net - 0 | 27 | 27 | 54 | 73 | 107 | 101 |
| tenge-7-2-1.core1.bdt.core.eircom.net - 0 | 27 | 27 | 49 | 80 | 156 | 58 |
| tenge-1-2-1.pe1.crz.crz-crz.eircom.net - 0 | 27 | 27 | 50 | 78 | 127 | 104 |
| ge1-9.service3.cra.dublin.eircom.net - 0 | 27 | 27 | 47 | 77 | 156 | 113 |
| webmail.eircom.net - 0 | 27 | 27 | 51 | 75 | 131 | 54 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|

(Sorry about the columns being all over the place - I've only just noticed. I've got these ones (roughly) lined up, but I don't think they'll stay in line - I edited the previously posted ones but they wouldn't stay edited!).

Thank you for flagging the dodgy connection between the 2 devices. I was using an old LAN cable last night; I never did like the look of the way it was assembled. I'm now using the better-looking one that came with my Linksys router.

I must read up on comms, and how to interpret the various diagnostics. (Meanwhile, it seems ok to go ahead and post that reply to Eircom unedited!).

Snowbat

If it is handing out 192.168.x.x addresses and provides a connection to the internet, it is at least a NAT router.

Yes, the first column shows packet loss. MTR basically does a tracert to the destination host, then sends multiple pings to every hop along the way, displaying the results in terms of % loss, number sent and received, best, average, worst, and most recent ping time. It is very useful for uncovering sources of packet loss and jitter. If you wrap the table in CODE tags (the # symbol in the message editor) it will probably display with correct formatting in a fixed width font, though I haven't tried that yet. I managed to read it anyway

Does the email problem still exist when using the new cable (or when connected directly to the Wimax box)?

Fogmatic

Thank you for the info, Snowbat.
And the link to the clear & informative website. I got absorbed in it, and forgot you'd also asked a question!

To which the answer is yes; aside from the occasional lost packets with the old cable, the email problem exists whichever cable I use. And whether the laptop & Wimax box are cabled together directly, or the Linksys router sits between them. And whether the Linksys-laptop connection is wireless or cabled.
And in Thunderbird & Windows Mail. And it's same with my desktop computer, including the first time it was on since weeks before the problem appeared (and trying the mail first thing, before any updates etc could interfere).
I've tried every combination of the above (except connecting to the desktop wirelessly, which I haven't set up yet), and haven't been able to make the mail authentication business deviate at all from the 2 minutes.

I'm now on Eircom New Webmail, it didn't make any difference, and the Eircom man's now saying again that it must be my settings. I asked why being migrated to New Webmail was going to fix it, but.....

I'm not sure if this comms business has got any less maddening since the 1980s!

Snowbat

Can you bring your laptop to the house of a relative/friend and check if email works normally on their internet connection?

You can also try telnet to log in to wembail.eircom.net 110 and see where the delay occurs (in establishing the connection, after you send USER XXX, after you send PASS XXX, or after you send a command like LIST). http://techhelp.santovec.us/pop3telnet.htm
Some years ago there was a corrupt email on the POP3 server that caused a connection timeout when my email client tried to retrieve the waiting emails. I resolved by telnetting to port 110 (as above), logging in, running LIST to get the message ids and then RETR on each one until I identified the problem message. I then used DELE to remove it and normal operation was restored. I'm not saying that's your problem but it is something to consider.

You could also use Wireshark http://www.wireshark.org/ to monitor your connection while you start your email client and see what's happening "on the wire." The packet headers and contents just before the delay may help to identify why it occurs.