Is MHEG-5 mandatory for Saorview approval?

LongJAH

Hi,

I purchased a Saorview-approved Samsung UE37D5000 LED TV some months ago. I was unaware of digital teletext at the time, but assumed that approved TVs could avail of all Saorview services both now and into the foreseeable future.

Having subsequently seen digital teletext in another house, I quickly learned that this function was not present in my TV. Further investigation revealed that MHEG-5 middleware is required for digital teletext, and the UE37D5000 TV does not have it. However, according to Saorview, approved sets must have MHEG-5 (here) and this model is indeed listed as Saorview-approved (here).

Is MHEG-5 not mandatory?

Thanks,
John.

Are you sure you don't have it? I have a C530 which isn't Saorview approved and it does have MHEG-5. There's an option to disable it in the setup menus, maybe that's what it is in your case? What country is the TV set to?

LongJAH

Karsini wrote: »

Are you sure you don't have it? I have a C530 which isn't Saorview approved and it does have MHEG-5. There's an option to disable it in the setup menus, maybe that's what it is in your case? What country is the TV set to?

I emailed Samsung and they stated the following:
"The TV that you have purhcased is not MHEG compatible and therefore will not receive the digital text services. This is clearly stated on the Samsung website."

It is indeed listed on their website as having no MHEG.
The option to edit the country is locked with a long password, which Samsung would not provide.

MHEG-5 is mandatory for Saorview approval. So if the TV was advertised as being Saorview approved then someone must be telling porkies somewhere.

LongJAH

Karsini wrote: »

MHEG-5 is mandatory for Saorview approval. So if the TV was advertised as being Saorview approved then someone must be telling porkies somewhere.

Thanks for the feedback. I suspect the retailer will blame Saorview given that the model is listed on the Saorview website. Samsung are pointing the finger at both. I wonder how many more under-spec units have slipped through this net? I also wonder if Saorview will pay for a replacement that does indeed meet the requirements. I emailed them several days ago, but no reply yet.

The Cush

This from the Saorview Minimum Receiver Requirements

To conform to the minimum receiver specification the IRD shall be compliant with the following standards:

1) NorDig 2.2 Basic Profile @ High Definition Level
2) MHEG-5 UK Profile, version 1.06
3) Additions and clarifications as set out in this document

Contact Saorview in relation to this - http://www.saorview.ie/help-support/

Were you given the option on setup to select the country/region? In Europe only the UK and Ireland use MHEG-5.

STB

Same answer as the other thread. If it is not enabled by default in choosing Ireland at setup, then Samsung need to release a firmware update to enable MHEG5 in Irish Country profile.

I note from the UK profile of this model that you can turn on/off mheg5. Have you seen this option in the menu's and is it turned off.

If as you say the country profile is locked (I have never heard of this, ever) then this TV is Ireland specific and should have it enabled by default.

The people in Samsung that you have been talking to are obviously the clever people in call centres who are about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

Teracom irdtest@teracom.se did the tests. They dont get the Saorview approval unless they pass all the mandatory requirements.

Contact Saorview. info@saorview.ie or ring RTENL and ask for Brian Geraghty (Saorview Digtial reception manager). Do not use the Saorview helpline, they are useless.

LongJAH

STB wrote: »

Same answer as the other thread. If it is not enabled by default in choosing Ireland at setup, then Samsung need to release a firmware update to enable MHEG5 in Irish Country profile.

I note from the UK profile of this model that you can turn on/off mheg5. Have you seen this option in the menu's and is it turned off.

If as you say the country profile is locked (I have never heard of this, ever) then this TV is Ireland specific and should have it enabled by default.

The people in Samsung that you have been talking to are obviously the clever people in call centres who are about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

Teracom irdtest@teracom.se did the tests. They dont get the Saorview approval unless they pass all the mandatory requirements.

Contact Saorview. info@saorview.ie or ring RTENL and ask for Brian Geraghty (Saorview Digtial reception manager). Do not use the Saorview helpline, they are useless.

Thanks for the information. Tech support in both Samsung and Saorview is hopeless indeed. The spec for the TV can be found here. It's not initially obvious, but click 'Table View' just underneath and to the left of the picture. Then scroll down to the 'System' heading and see the third entry.

LongJAH

The Cush wrote: »

This from the Saorview Minimum Receiver Requirements


Contact Saorview in relation to this - http://www.saorview.ie/help-support/

Were you given the option on setup to select the country/region? In Europe only the UK and Ireland use MHEG-5.

Thanks. No option was given to select country/region.

jonnygee

Press Menu,
Scroll down to plug and play section,
Go across to digital text and if it shows disabled, then enable it.

jonnygee

Country option should be in Menu-Antenna-Country

LongJAH

jonnygee wrote: »

Country option should be in Menu-Antenna-Country

I had tried this before, but it prompted me for a PIN, so I asked Samsung for this, but to no avail. I chose this option again after reading your reply and tried '0000' for the PIN. It worked! I changed country to Ireland and re-tuned. I now have digital teletext on RTE2. So this TV is MHEG compatible after all, despite Samsung's feedback. Thanks.

LongJAH

Thanks to everyone for your feedback and also to Saorview, who in response to my email (sent to address provided by 'STB'), quickly established that Samsung had made a mistake on their web site specifications and subsequently in their support emails.

After entering '0000' for a PIN prompt on the TV menu option highlighted by 'jonnygee', I was able to change the country to 'Ireland' and after a subsequent re-tune, digital teletext is working!

I am happy to confirm that the Samsung UE37D5000 is MHEG-5 compatible after all.

The Cush

LongJAH wrote: »

After entering '0000' for a PIN prompt on the TV menu option highlighted by 'jonnygee', I was able to change the country to 'Ireland' and after a subsequent re-tune, digital teletext is working!

I am happy to confirm that the Samsung UE37D5000 is MHEG-5 compatible after all.

Which text service do you get on RTÉ1 - digital Aertel or the traditional Aertel?

LongJAH

The Cush wrote: »

Which text service do you get on RTÉ1 - digital Aertel or the traditional Aertel?

I get traditional Aertel on RTE1, digital Aertel on RTE2 and RTEjr, selected P888 subtitles on RTE News Now, and traditional-style teletext on TG4, TV3 and 3e.

watty

LongJAH wrote: »

I get traditional Aertel on RTE1, digital Aertel on RTE2 and RTEjr, selected P888 subtitles on RTE News Now, and traditional-style teletext on TG4, TV3 and 3e.

This is correct behaviour for Saorview. A non "Saorview" set that does MHEG5 and Teletext and a "Freeview HD" set will show MHEG5 text on RTE1 instead of Teletext.

Some non-Saorview sets have option to select Teletext if available.
All "Freeview HD" set boxes and many "Freeview HD" Tvs will not do Teletext at all.

(It's stupid that it's called "Digital Aertel" as traditional Teletext is actually a Digital signal and always has been.)

STB

Whoever is selling these TVs in Ireland should make sure the country is set to Ireland, so no-one has to jump through these hoops.

Especially if you are locking the Country profile with a PIN no. Not everyone hangs out in technical fora.

The Cush

LongJAH wrote: »

I get traditional Aertel on RTE1, digital Aertel on RTE2 and RTEjr, selected P888 subtitles on RTE News Now, and traditional-style teletext on TG4, TV3 and 3e.

watty wrote: »

This is correct behaviour for Saorview. A non "Saorview" set that does MHEG5 and Teletext and a "Freeview HD" set will show MHEG5 text on RTE1 instead of Teletext.

That's not correct Watty, the correct behaviour for a Saorview product is MHEG-5 text is given priority if available, if not available traditional text is displayed. It's in the Nordig/Saorview Min Specs.

My brother has a non-approved Samsung combi TV that behave like that, don't know how the TV above passed the approval process if the text works like that.

jonnygee

The set is fine, when digital text is enabled in the menu as it is by default iirc then mheg5 text is displayed on rte1. Disable digital text and the set reverts to traditional text.
The op should check his settings as i described in previous posts.

jonnygee

STB wrote: »

Whoever is selling these TVs in Ireland should make sure the country is set to Ireland, so no-one has to jump through these hoops.

Especially if you are locking the Country profile with a PIN no. Not everyone hangs out in technical fora.

The country setting is not preset and the correct country setting is selected by the user upon inital setup, a menu of different countries is shown to the user and they are supposed to select their country from this list. Unfortunatly some users incorrectly press ok when presented with this list instead of selecting the correct country and the tv then continues with setup which is pretty much automated.
The pin number request is only presented when a user wishes to change the original selected country choice which is a fair enough security measure as the user is assumed to have selected the correct country upon setup and changing it to anything else could cause problems.

byte

STB wrote: »

Whoever is selling these TVs in Ireland should make sure the country is set to Ireland, so no-one has to jump through these hoops.

Especially if you are locking the Country profile with a PIN no. Not everyone hangs out in technical fora.

That would be wholly unpractical. Plus, then people would have issue with the TV boxes having all been opened and resealed again.

Might as well do it to all the Vestel STB's too, since it's part of the initial setup process to choose country.

It's best if the buyer obeys the onscreen commands on initial setup!

If there are issues after that, the buyer should immediately contact the retailer to have it sorted out.

jonnygee

Agree Byte,
One fault that i would have with these tv,s is the amount of settings that can be changed by the user,far far too many adjustments are there for the user to play with and mess up, what does a non techno user know about shadow detail, white balance, flesh tone, dynamic contrast, etc. etc.
Give them a tv with best picture setup preset and minimal adjustment available.
Brightness, contrast and colour adjustment is all that,s needed.

STB

Byte/Jonnygee

I was assuming that these TVs by default were set to UK/Not Ireland without choice at the setup start. (the OP stated this in his response to The Cush - No option was given to select country/region)

Hence the OP stating that they couldn't reset the country without a PIN code that even the support centre would not supply (I said I had never seen this before). Whether or not this PIN code is clearly labelled in the manual I do not know.

If the PIN is not clearly stated in the manual then they should remove the code. Factory reset shouldn't require one.
Most TVs allow for a factory reset that re-enables Country profile to be chosen without a PIN code (mine certainly are).

I agree it would be impractical for retailers to unbox TVs etc. The consumer doesn't want opened boxes either.

How this thread got this far points to the unfriendliness of their software setup, given someone had to come to a technical forum to find out the answer to what should be a simple question, having been to Samsung support in the first instance.

Saorview approved equipment should work out of the box, with little customer (or return to retailer) interaction.

For what its worth one of my TVs is a Samsung (Unapproved) LE40C530 and these issues dont arise (Pin etc).

jonnygee

I understand fully what you are saying STB, It is a problem that arises when tv,s are designed to be pan european rather than region specific.
The software writers need to be reigned in a bit and make it more simple for ordinary people to understand what they are saying, like the first question should be something along the lines of "Firstly please select what country you are living in from the following list and then press the ok button".
Reset information and pin number are available from an inbuilt e-manual which are accesed from the menu but again most people find this difficult to access, far to many options are available.
I think it was Ford motor company that used to have a slogan "Simple but effiecient" unfortunatly technology is becoming efficent but not simple.

winston_1

watty wrote: »

All "Freeview HD" set boxes and many "Freeview HD" Tvs will not do Teletext at all.

Not quite true. The Icecrypt T2200 HD set top box does EBU teletext and MHEG 5. Not mentioned in the manual but it does do teletext on French channels.

Johnboy1951

jonnygee wrote: »

Agree Byte,
One fault that i would have with these tv,s is the amount of settings that can be changed by the user,far far too many adjustments are there for the user to play with and mess up, what does a non techno user know about shadow detail, white balance, flesh tone, dynamic contrast, etc. etc.
Give them a tv with best picture setup preset and minimal adjustment available.
Brightness, contrast and colour adjustment is all that,s needed.

I would have to disagree with limiting the number of adjustments for users.

On the other hand going some way towards what you appear to want, I would also agree that a lot of settings could be in an 'advanced' menu, for those who might wish to use them. Make entering the 'advanced' section a two stage process with suitable warning.

watty

LG TV has a "normal" and "advanced" settings menus.

Sam Russell

I used to have a TV that had a 'granny' button on the remote that reset the TV picture settings to 'normal' and restored the colour, contrast, and brightness to pre-interference by kids settings. Brilliant idea!

zg3409

Sam Russell wrote: »

I used to have a TV that had a 'granny' button

I hope it was not labelled that way. My grandad would be offended!

Sam Russell

zg3409 wrote: »

I hope it was not labelled that way. My grandad would be offended!

It probably was - it was a long time ago before all this PC lark. No mention of grandads.:)

If I remember, it was a Nordmende TV from about early 80s. It was a huge 25 inch.

lucernarian

A related problem...

I have the 40 inch equivalent of this TV set.

The MHEG 5 aspect is not working properly even though it's Saorview approved and the country is set to Ireland. Whenever I change channel (I think to RTÉ1) and then try the text button on RTE1 or RTE2, it only loads the almost-defunct EBU teletext aka Aertel text and the only thing carried on that is subtitles.

So far, I have to reinstall/reset the TV to factory settings to get the new version of Aertel to work when I want to use it and this is becoming very tiresome!

Does anyone have ideas or suggestions as to how to get this problem solved quickly?? Otherwise it's going to be a string of emails to Saorview and Samsung which sounds like a messy business going on what the OP had to do!

STB

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

A related problem...

I have the 40 inch equivalent of this TV set.

The MHEG 5 aspect is not working properly even though it's Saorview approved and the country is set to Ireland. Whenever I change channel (I think to RTÉ1) and then try the text button on RTE1 or RTE2, it only loads the almost-defunct EBU teletext aka Aertel text and the only thing carried on that is subtitles.

So far, I have to reinstall/reset the TV to factory settings to get the new version of Aertel to work when I want to use it and this is becoming very tiresome!

Does anyone have ideas or suggestions as to how to get this problem solved quickly?? Otherwise it's going to be a string of emails to Saorview and Samsung which sounds like a messy business going on what the OP had to do!

Are you saying that having selected Ireland in the Country setup that it is not keeping this setting ? Quite unusual.

I presume you have checked that digital (MHEG5) text is selected as the default in the setup menus, ie turned on ?

lucernarian

I am more or less saying that, STB. Though the country setting always remains at "Ireland" for the digital channels.

There is no option for MHEG5 as such, it's called Digital Text and it's switched to on.

I have since discovered that by selecting the channel again via the guide or even pressing the info button, then the red/"A" button and then "watch", I am able to load the MHEG5 text again. Not nearly as tedious as before but still an unfortunate quirk that might affect many Irish customers...

watty

This is really Saorview certified?

JonathonS

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

I have the 40 inch equivalent of this TV set.

The MHEG 5 aspect is not working properly even though it's Saorview approved and the country is set to Ireland.

Have you tried the solution that the OP says solved the problem (post #13)?

STB

JonathonS wrote: »

Have you tried the solution that the OP says solved the problem (post #13)?

He already says he has done a factory reset and set it to Ireland.

Mr Cumulonimbus

@To be confirmed

I know you shouldn't have to as the set is listed as Saorview approved, but have you tried setting the country to UK just to see what happens?

EDIT: this may throw your Saorview channels into the 800's. Can you re-arrange channels with this tv? Awkward if you have many Freeview channels too.