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Road rage - 1st out of car "on the hook"

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  • 29-06-2012 12:25am
    #1
    Jame Gumb
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 802 ✭✭✭


    Hello Folks

    What's the legal position regarding physical road rage incidents (i.e. who's to blame)?

    Is it the person who gets out of their car first?

    Many thanks.

    Jame


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    #2
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,120 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    I presume it would be who hit who first. Not sure if that's the way it would be viewed but getting out of the car wouldn't be a crime.


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    #3
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Road rage in itself is not a crime associated actions that go as part of it can be criminal. I have yet to hear of a case where getting out of the Car has proved in any way useful to correct an other drivers bad driving skills.


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    #4
    Jame Gumb
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 802 ✭✭✭Jame Gumb


    I was involved in a road rage incident earlier this evening - Someone else got out of their car and it wasn't to correct my bad driving...I'm surprised at how shaken I was


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    #5
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    What Else happened?


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    #6
    Jame Gumb
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 802 ✭✭✭Jame Gumb


    Zambia wrote: »
    What Else happened?

    I was driving along with my wife and young kids in the car.

    The car in front of me slowed and indicated to turn right into a house.

    I moved to the left to see if I could go by the now stopped car but there wasn't enough room to get by. Plus I could see a break in the traffic coming the other way so the other car would be gone and there was a red light ahead anyway.

    A car then came behind me and then maybe another two or three. I became aware that one of the cars maybe two or three behind was beeping his / her horn.

    The car in front turned and I moved on to the red light. Some cars were turning and changed lanes and the car that had been beeping its horn was now directly behind me. The driver kept beeping the horn and started kind of accelerating at my car but maybe with the brakes on so it was lurching violently towards our car.

    I shook my head in my rear view mirror and the guy got out and came towards my car. I locked the doors and he started shouting "I'm gonna kill you and I'm gonna ram your car". My Mrs said whatever you do, don't get out of the car. I saw red, especially with the little girls in the back do I got out and said "go for it".

    The guy came at me and went to hit me (but missed). I hit him pretty hard and then kind of threw him on to the bonnet of his car. There was a woman in his car who seemed more annoyed with him although she started shouting about getting the guards to "do me". I ordered the guy back into his car and he went.

    Two witnesses offered me their numbers and agreed that he'd physically attacked me first. I got their details.

    I was coming from a kids party!

    Sorry for long post.

    Bit shaken by it all...never been in trouble with the guards in my life.


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    #7
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    the person who got out of the car first to have a go,if a car hit another you can always have a) a civil discussion exchange insurance etc or b) getting out of the car for fisti cuffs or an argy bargy,whoever instigates the road rage first or starts going down that route is at fault..


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    #8
    durano
    Registered Users Posts: 132 ✭✭durano


    Jame Gumb wrote: »
    I was driving along with my wife and young kids in the car.

    The car in front of me slowed and indicated to turn right into a house.

    I moved to the left to see if I could go by the now stopped car but there wasn't enough room to get by. Plus I could see a break in the traffic coming the other way so the other car would be gone and there was a red light ahead anyway.

    A car then came behind me and then maybe another two or three. I became aware that one of the cars maybe two or three behind was beeping his / her horn.

    The car in front turned and I moved on to the red light. Some cars were turning and changed lanes and the car that had been beeping its horn was now directly behind me. The driver kept beeping the horn and started kind of accelerating at my car but maybe with the brakes on so it was lurching violently towards our car.

    I shook my head in my rear view mirror and the guy got out and came towards my car. I locked the doors and he started shouting "I'm gonna kill you and I'm gonna ram your car". My Mrs said whatever you do, don't get out of the car. I saw red, especially with the little girls in the back do I got out and said "go for it".

    The guy came at me and went to hit me (but missed). I hit him pretty hard and then kind of threw him on to the bonnet of his car. There was a woman in his car who seemed more annoyed with him although she started shouting about getting the guards to "do me". I ordered the guy back into his car and he went.

    Two witnesses offered me their numbers and agreed that he'd physically attacked me first. I got their details.

    I was coming from a kids party!

    Sorry for long post.

    Bit shaken by it all...never been in trouble with the guards in my life.
    Nice,sounds like you taught the fool a lesson if your description of events is true,you hardly have anything to worry about if he approached you and swung at you first.


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    #9
    Jame Gumb
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 802 ✭✭✭Jame Gumb


    durano wrote: »
    Jame Gumb wrote: »
    I was driving along with my wife and young kids in the car.

    The car in front of me slowed and indicated to turn right into a house.

    I moved to the left to see if I could go by the now stopped car but there wasn't enough room to get by. Plus I could see a break in the traffic coming the other way so the other car would be gone and there was a red light ahead anyway.

    A car then came behind me and then maybe another two or three. I became aware that one of the cars maybe two or three behind was beeping his / her horn.

    The car in front turned and I moved on to the red light. Some cars were turning and changed lanes and the car that had been beeping its horn was now directly behind me. The driver kept beeping the horn and started kind of accelerating at my car but maybe with the brakes on so it was lurching violently towards our car.

    I shook my head in my rear view mirror and the guy got out and came towards my car. I locked the doors and he started shouting "I'm gonna kill you and I'm gonna ram your car". My Mrs said whatever you do, don't get out of the car. I saw red, especially with the little girls in the back do I got out and said "go for it".

    The guy came at me and went to hit me (but missed). I hit him pretty hard and then kind of threw him on to the bonnet of his car. There was a woman in his car who seemed more annoyed with him although she started shouting about getting the guards to "do me". I ordered the guy back into his car and he went.

    Two witnesses offered me their numbers and agreed that he'd physically attacked me first. I got their details.

    I was coming from a kids party!

    Sorry for long post.

    Bit shaken by it all...never been in trouble with the guards in my life.
    Nice,sounds like you taught the fool a lesson if your description of events is true,you hardly have anything to worry about if he approached you and swung at you first.

    It is.

    My Mrs reckoned that he was coked out of it. He wasn't very big either.
    Has to have been on something (drunk maybe) 'cause the whole thing was bonkers and the attempted punch was very strange.

    In retrospect, getting out of the car was probably a mistake but I just saw red. It was the crashing into the car stuff - Not cause of the car - Cause of the girls - One's a baby. To be honest that made me livid.


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    #10
    Grolschevik
    Registered Users Posts: 3,472 ✭✭✭Grolschevik


    Not something I would recommend doing after the hurley-to-the-head manslaughter case a few weeks back.


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    #11
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    The long and the short of it is if you want him charged you have to go to the police and report him. That's if you want
    Him charged. Chances are he may go to the police report something completely different however if you have witnesses be sure you keep the numbers handy. I personally would be happy to leave it as it is.


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    #12
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Grolschevik wrote: »
    Not something I would recommend doing after the hurley-to-the-head manslaughter case a few weeks back.
    Have you a link to that?


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    #13
    Homer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,267 ✭✭✭Homer


    Zambia wrote: »
    Have you a link to that?
    conviction was back in April of this year. Linky...


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    #14
    Grolschevik
    Registered Users Posts: 3,472 ✭✭✭Grolschevik


    Zambia wrote: »
    Have you a link to that?
    Homer wrote: »
    conviction was back in April of this year. Linky...

    That long ago already? There was a huge thread in Motors (and also in AH) if you fancy getting yourself incensed at some of the opinions floating around this site.


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    #15
    durano
    Registered Users Posts: 132 ✭✭durano


    Jame Gumb wrote: »
    It is.

    My Mrs reckoned that he was coked out of it. He wasn't very big either.
    Has to have been on something (drunk maybe) 'cause the whole thing was bonkers and the attempted punch was very strange.

    In retrospect, getting out of the car was probably a mistake but I just saw red. It was the crashing into the car stuff - Not cause of the car - Cause of the girls - One's a baby. To be honest that made me livid.
    No mistake,people like this need to be stood up to and shown the error of their ways,it always happens sooner or later,you may have saved him a serious kicking further down the road where he might not get off so lightly.


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    #16
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Homer wrote: »
    Zambia wrote: »
    Have you a link to that?
    conviction was back in April of this year. Linky...
    I would agree if the bloke is that mad call police.


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    #17
    Homer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,267 ✭✭✭Homer


    Few years ago I wouldn't have thought twice about getting out of my car and standing up to a bully, or stopping on the street to help somebody in distress out. But times have sure changed and as much as it kills me to turn the other cheek sometimes there are some proper nut-cases out there carrying weapons and prepared to use them!
    If in doubt, call the guards. That's what they get paid for!


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    #18
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Two things. An assault requires lack of consent. Telling someone to "go for it" is a bad idea. And if you are that worried about your kids you would drive on. Getting out and fighting him is hardly doing them any good.


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    #19
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    MagicSean wrote: »
    Two things. An assault requires lack of consent. Telling someone to "go for it" is a bad idea. And if you are that worried about your kids you would drive on. Getting out and fighting him is hardly doing them any good.
    One could argue that the threat to smash into his car if he got back into it would negate the consent and force a conflict.


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    #20
    Jame Gumb
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 802 ✭✭✭Jame Gumb


    Thanks for your input, Folks


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    #21
    Farcear
    Registered Users Posts: 618 ✭✭✭Farcear


    MagicSean wrote: »
    Two things. An assault requires lack of consent. Telling someone to "go for it" is a bad idea.

    Not quite...

    Section 2 assault (Applying force to another person) can be defended on the basis of consent.

    However, Section 3 (Assault causing harm) or Section 4 Assault (Assault causing serious harm) are strict offences and cannot be defended, even on the basis that the victim consented. It does place hardcore S&M-type practices on shaky legal footing!


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    #22
    jblack
    Registered Users Posts: 476 ✭✭jblack


    christmas2012 wrote: »
    ,whoever instigates the road rage first or starts going down that route is at fault..

    Not necessarily true at all. There is no distilling this down into some american style "upstairs-downstairs" rule or castle doctrine; assault will be judged on the circumstances and, if necessary the proportionate response of the non-initiator.

    Someone getting out of a car in itself, even in an aggressive manner may not amount to an assault. Normal statutory provisions such as NFOAPA apply. No magic set formula.


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    #23
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Farcear wrote: »
    Not quite...

    Section 2 assault (Applying force to another person) can be defended on the basis of consent.

    However, Section 3 (Assault causing harm) or Section 4 Assault (Assault causing serious harm) are strict offences and cannot be defended, even on the basis that the victim consented. It does place hardcore S&M-type practices on shaky legal footing!

    The definition of assault is the application of force without consent. Lack of consent is an ingerdient in the charge. The defense included in the statute is for if the force is normal as part of everday contact.

    Section 3 is simply a section 2 assault which results in harm. It has the same basic ingredients but requires an harm as an additional one.

    Section 4 is not an assault, it is simply "Causing serious harm" so is not relevant.

    So theoretically if you tell someone to hit you and they do you have given them consent and they should not be punishable under section 2 or 3. although wether that theory would translate into court is doubtful.


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    #24
    size5
    Registered Users Posts: 266 ✭✭size5


    The question is should he not be going to the guards to report itASAP. The danger of leaving it as it is, is that the other guy will report the incident with his slide on the story.

    Even if u don't want to take any action, I think it needs to be reported in order to safeguard yourself from action


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    #25
    wmpdd3
    Registered Users Posts: 9,624 ✭✭✭wmpdd3


    Id report that straight away and get the witness names to the guards.


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    #26
    lomb
    Registered Users Posts: 6,031 ✭✭✭lomb


    After an 'altercation' a little while ago with someone I annoyed behind me who annoyed me unfairly in my opinion they overtook me and jammed on the breaks in front of and jumped out and hit my car with a strap of some kind. I certainly wasnt getting out and basically from a halt I revved the engine and made a motion towards him that if he didnt get out of my way Id consider driving over him(actually I would have reversed if he didnt get out of my way). He did actually jump out of the way quite quickly...
    No way Id get out to deal with any lunatic, cant really evaluate the situation.


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    #27
    RATM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭RATM


    OP I'd report this asap. He will do it again. Also tell the Gardai that you think he might have been on coke / drunk- he might have previous convictions for these which will help your case in the event of him making up a pack of lies about what actually happened. He is likely to do that but you have the witnesses- give the info to the Gardai too and let them interview them to corroborate the facts.


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    #28
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,303 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    lomb wrote: »
    After an 'altercation' a little while ago with someone I annoyed behind me who annoyed me unfairly in my opinion they overtook me and jammed on the breaks in front of and jumped out and hit my car with a strap of some kind. I certainly wasnt getting out and basically from a halt I revved the engine and made a motion towards him that if he didnt get out of my way Id consider driving over him(actually I would have reversed if he didnt get out of my way). He did actually jump out of the way quite quickly...
    No way Id get out to deal with any lunatic, cant really evaluate the situation.

    You mean you upped the ante by threatening him with the car? :)


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