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The Compsognathid and early coelurosaur thread

Comments

  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Adam Khor


    No comments to this still?

    I asked Darren Naish what kind of dino he thinks this is- he confirmed what I thought, that its most likely a compsognathid or at least close to them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,551 Rubecula


    Not sure what comment to make to be honest Adam. It is a nice spot by yourself and it is is in remarkable condition. But I know next to nothing about these things so dunno what else to say I am afraid.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Adam Khor


    Rubecula wrote: »
    Not sure what comment to make to be honest Adam. It is a nice spot by yourself and it is is in remarkable condition. But I know next to nothing about these things so dunno what else to say I am afraid.

    Haha its not like u have to say anything... I was simply expecting more excited reactions, after all this is probably the best preserved dinosaur found in a long time...


  • Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 31,127 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭ Mickeroo


    Pretty impressive fossil alright!


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,747 ✭✭✭✭ Galvasean


    Marvelous specimen!

    *twiddles mustache*

    (would have commented / added thread tags sooner, but I've been busy)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭ Allosaur


    THat was one heck of a prep job too..


  • Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 31,127 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭ Mickeroo


    Here's another pic of the skeleton, easier to make out the details in it I think:

    WOxHV.jpg


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Adam Khor


    New coelurosaur is nicknamed "Bicentenaria argentina" but the name isn´t yet official. It is, of course, being called a "T-Rex ancestor" already. It is not; according to paleontologists, it seems to be the first example of a new coelurosaur linneage, so it is only distantly related to T-Rex or to dromaeosaurs.


    It was three meters long, and seemingly a small game predator.

    http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2012/06/27/new-species-carnivorous-dinosaur-found-in-argentina/

    argentina%20dinosaur.jpg


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Adam Khor


    The little guy (28 inches long) is back in the headlines, and has a name already: Sciurumimus albersdoerferi, the genus name meaning "squirrel mimic".

    This may be a small specimen but it has HUGE implications. It seems to be a baby megalosaur, but it shows traces of long fur-like feathers on its body and tail (the tail being fluffy enough to give it its name), thus confirming that theropods other than coelurosaurs were feathered at least during a stage of their lives, and that we can expect more feather evidence from any group of theropods now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,747 ✭✭✭✭ Galvasean


    That's fantastic news Adam (and a great name too I might ad!). I think it may be quicker to list all the types of dinosaurs that did not have feathers at this stage.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 30,747 ✭✭✭✭ Galvasean




    I must say I'm not loving the 'ancestor of birds' hyperbole. It clearly isn't the ancestor of birds since we know of birds which lived much earlier than Bicenteneria.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Adam Khor


    I'm surprised Novas would say something like that... I wish I could hear the original audio instead of the English dub to see if he's actually saying that...:(


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,747 ✭✭✭✭ Galvasean


    Perhaps he said something along the lines of, "this new dinosaur is related to those which are related to birds" and the finesse got lost in translation?


  • Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 31,127 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭ Mickeroo


    Galvasean wrote: »
    That's fantastic news Adam (and a great name too I might ad!). I think it may be quicker to list all the types of dinosaurs that did not have feathers at this stage.

    Just spotted this article on reddit, goes as far as saying that all dinosaurs had feathers: http://io9.com/5923231/paleontologists-now-say-all-dinosaurs-had-feathers?utm_campaign=socialflow_io9_facebook&utm_source=io9_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,747 ✭✭✭✭ Galvasean


    Hmmm, still can't imagine sauropods with feathers at any stage in life.
    Prove me wring science, prove me wrong....


  • Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 31,127 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭ Mickeroo


    Galvasean wrote: »
    Hmmm, still can't imagine sauropods with feathers at any stage in life.
    Prove me wring science, prove me wrong....

    Yea it doesn't sound right to me either.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,551 Rubecula


    Big feathered dinosaurs still seem a bit odd to me, but I won't argue the facts as I am sure most folks know a bit more than me.

    I found this link, although I think it has been put up before (Probably by Adam.)

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/apr/04/giant-feathered-dinosaur-china-big-fly


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,747 ✭✭✭✭ Galvasean


    Oh yes, there was a thread about him here.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Adam Khor


    Galvasean wrote: »
    Hmmm, still can't imagine sauropods with feathers at any stage in life.
    Prove me wring science, prove me wrong....

    Well, all skin impressions of sauropods thus far show scales, and we know some of them had plenty of osteoderms. Maybe the most significant find is the fossilized skin in the titanosaur embryos found in Auca Mahuevo, showing that unlike Sciurumimus (and presumably, most if not all baby theropods), baby sauropods were born scaly.

    But who knows? If the common ancestor of all dinosaurs had some sort of proto-feather covering, it may be possible that some prosauropods had them too, maybe even the odd sauropod here and there- perhaps not extensively, but maybe like the sparse hair of an elephant or rhino. I know it sounds crazy and unlikely, but consider baurusuchids, a group of land-dwelling Cretaceous crocs; they have a series of pits in their snouts that suggest the presence of complex facial tissues, most likely sensory structures. Crocodiles today have a series of pits too that allow them detect prey in murky water, but this only works when submerged, apparently, so it is possible that land-dwelling baurusuchids developed more complex structures, perhaps analogous to mammalian whiskers. Sounds bizarre but let's remember many of these land crocs developed very similar traits to mammals, including differenciated, cusped teeth, and even perhaps fleshy snouts and noses, as well as an erect posture; some of them, like Pakasuchus, have been said to be cat-like in both shape and presumed lifestyle. If this idea is correct and crocodylomorphs developed whiskers at one point, giant dinosaurs with fuzz may not be so far fetched after all.

    2dc8b50ff3ad3d419cf2657dde2008c4CROCOILO.JPG


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,551 Rubecula


    Galvasean wrote: »
    Oh yes, there was a thread about him here.

    Thanks for that. I knew it was in here somewhere.

    I used to hate the idea of T.rex possibly having feathers as it just didn't seem right. Nowadays however I sort of think of them with feathers, well sometimes I do, and it doesn't irritate me that they are depicted that way. It is what you get used to. So although I really don't think there were feathered sauropods flitting in and out of the scenery I am more than happy to keep an open mind that maybe, just maybe one or more species had possibly a merest glimmer of a feather. Just do not expect me to think of one having a giant version of a peacock on it's backside, that would just be a bit too much even for my weird imagination. :D


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Adam Khor


    Giant compsognathid Sinocalliopteryx was about the size of a wolf, ate birds and small raptor dinosaurs.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48833110/ns/technology_and_science-science/

    1063px-Sinocalliopteryx_gigas_feeding_on_the_primitive_bird_Confuciusornis_-_journal.pone.0044012.g008.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,747 ✭✭✭✭ Galvasean


    Hungry buggers weren't they?

    120829-DinosaurPhoto-hmed-0220p_files.grid-6x2.jpg


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Adam Khor


    Thanks for posting the pic :D Couldn´t do it the usual way and didn´t have time to google for it XD


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,747 ✭✭✭✭ Galvasean


    A couple more thoughts:
    - I really like the name Sinocalliopteryx. It really rolls off the tongue.
    - Based on reconstructions, I find it remarkable how much a large compsognathid looks like a small tyrannosauroid. It probably shouldn't be too surprising though, what with them both being coelurosaurs. The skull reminds me of Alioramus, while the little arms are self explanatory.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Adam Khor


    There's a thought... perhaps compys and tyrannosaurs are closer than we think...


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Adam Khor


    1200px-9121_-_Milano%2C_Museo_storia_naturale_-_Scipionyx_samniticus_-_Foto_Giovanni_Dall%27Orto_22-Apr-2007a.jpg

    Scipionyx is notable for being one of the best preserved and most complete dinosaur fossils ever found- preserving even petrified internal organs such as the heart, liver and thymus, as well as cartilage, muscle and gut tissue. Even the keratinous sheats of the claws are preserved. It is believed to have been a juvenile compsognathid.

    Article is in Italian:

    https://www.ilmattino.it/benevento/operazione_per_valorizzare_ciro_governo_in_campo_per_il_dinosauro-4267362.html


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Adam Khor


    A new coelurosaur, Aratasaurus, from early Cretaceous Brazil, 115 million years ago. It would've been over 3 meters long (certainly not 3 meters tall as the article says).

    https://amp.dw.com/en/scientists-discover-115-million-year-old-fossil-of-new-dinosaur-species-in-brazil/a-54134961?fbclid=IwAR1Uh4-09WGehDLrNlJA3cTOicmCmjFrnh3-M8m0KmgANvNAws87f8Ow2wk

    54134486_103.jpg


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Adam Khor


    Very interesting study on the late Jurassic theropod Juravenator and the possibility of it being a semiaquatic hunter.

    Juravenator was originally classified as a compsognathid. It has a long snout and tail and relatively short legs, as well as large eyes with scleral rings that have been suggested as nocturnal adaptations.

    This study finds what seem to be sensorial organs on the skin of the animal's tail, similar to modern crocodilians. In crocodiles these organs (called ISOs, or integumentary sense organs) are known to detect pressure changes in the water, as well as temperature and even chemicals, and help crocodilians hunt and navigate underwater. The study suggests Juravenator, which lived around coastal lagoons in what is today Germany, used these organs the same way, and probably waded or swam for prey in shallow water, probably at night. They also suggest there may have been similar organs elsewhere in the animal's body which weren´t preserved.

    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/10/dinosaur-scales-reveal-small-organs-used-to-sense-surroundings/

    juravenatorrender_1altlight.jpg

    It is important to note that Juravenator is only known from a juvenile specimen meaning we don´t know how big it grew, whether its proportions changed as it aged, or just what kind of theropod, exactly, it was.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Adam Khor


    Bizarre new compsognathid from Brazil, Ubirajara jubatus ("maned lord of the spear") had what appears to be a mane of filaments on its back as well as four long ribbon-like display structures coming out from its shoulders. The closest thing in modern times would be some birds of paradise.

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0195667120303736

    450?cb=20201213174453


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