Small overlap crash testing, Lexus IS vs Volvo S60

BrianD3

The IIHS are in the process of introducing a small overlap frontal crash test procedure. It isn't fully introduced yet but there are already some interesting results. Check out the difference in intrusion between the Volvo S60 and Lexus IS. Both cars are 5 star NCAP cars but the Volvo is obviously better in this test.
http://www.iihs.org/Lifesavers/presentations/Jermakian_Advanced%20Occupant%20Protection%20Technology_SmallOverlap.pdf

The Volvo is a newer design and maybe Volvo have paid more attention to non standard tests than Lexus have. Also, based on what I've seen previously, cars with transverse engines and front wheel drive can perform better in this sort of crash than cars with longitudinal engines and rear wheel drive.

I wonder if this small overlap test was repeated a few times using identical vehicles how close would the results be. It looks like the front wheel movement is very important here. If the wheel follows a slightly different path or shears off completely in one test but not another that might have quite an effect on the outcome.

colm_mcm

5 star isn't always the same as 5 star, it depends on when the car was tested. Bear in mind the IS is out since 2005 and the S60 is only out since 2010

The current ncap test is a LOT stricter than it was then, the IS wouldn't get 5 stars if tested today, same with a lot of 5 star cars.

mickdw

Something else that needs to be considered and given some type of rating is the actual mass of various cars as it has a significant affect on the forces experienced by occupants in a head on. Crash head on into something of greater mass than your vehicle, all travelling the same speed and you will be pushed backwards, meaning you suffer much greater deceleration than the heavier car even if your passenger compartment holds up perfectly.

BrianD3

The first results of this have been published today.
http://www.automotiveaddicts.com/31554/iihs-implements-new-small-overlap-crash-test-video

Nasty looking crashes and the majority of the cars got marginal or worse ratings. Reminds me of 1997 when the first EuroNCAP results came out and most cars did poorly.

Volvo S60 and Acura TL were the best performers in these new tests.



More pics here
http://wot.motortrend.com/acura-tl-aces-stricter-iihs-frontal-crash-test-vw-cc-loses-a-door-246439.html/2012-infiniti-g-small-overlap-crash-footwell/

Turbulent Bill

I wonder if this will lead to the same "design for EuroNCAP" that happened previously, i.e., car safety is improved in specific areas just to pass the test, rather than generally as a selling point. Volvo are one of the few to really sell on safety features - their image is built on this. From the S60 result they've obviously done their homework.

It's a really tough test given how little structure there is to absorb/deflect the impact.

BrianD3

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

I wonder if this will lead to the same "design for EuroNCAP" that happened previously, i.e., car safety is improved in specific areas just to pass the test, rather than generally as a selling point.

"Design for EuroNCAP" and the marketing associated with it has had a very positive effect on car safety though. The type of collision (offset head on, side impact, pole) that EuroNCAP tries to simulate were/are the ones killing lots of car occupants. Of course its not perfect and these latest IIHS tests illustrate this.

However if a car is designed to do well in the moderate overlap test that EuroNCAP perform it may also have beneficial effects for collisions not covered by EuroNCAP. Eg strong A pillars for the offset test may have the side effect of improving rollover protection too. Also, if cars were not being designed for the moderate overlap test they might have performed even worse in this IIHS small overlap one.

Anyway this is indeed a great result for Volvo. The S60 has a excellent result in EuroNCAP, excellent result in the IIHS roof strength test and now it has had one of the best results in the small overlap test too.

BrianD3

Videos of each car are on you tube. The Lexus IS performs very poorly. Judging by the intrusion there would be life changing injuries for the driver.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnK-TovPgrc

The tests are being discussed on various car forums and while there are some good points made there's a lot of crap too eg saying that the E90 3 series woud have performed better than the F30 because the F30 feels more flimsy :rolleyes: And attempting to fudge the issue by alleging that the BMW has better brakes than the Volvo so the BMW would have crashed at a lower speed :rolleyes:

sundodger5

What a coincidence, Last company car IS220 which i changed for an S60.
Still dont want to try out the airbags though..

Turbulent Bill

BrianD3 wrote: »

"Design for EuroNCAP" and the marketing associated with it has had a very positive effect on car safety though. The type of collision (offset head on, side impact, pole) that EuroNCAP tries to simulate were/are the ones killing lots of car occupants. Of course its not perfect and these latest IIHS tests illustrate this.

However if a car is designed to do well in the moderate overlap test that EuroNCAP perform it may also have beneficial effects for collisions not covered by EuroNCAP. Eg strong A pillars for the offset test may have the side effect of improving rollover protection too. Also, if cars were not being designed for the moderate overlap test they might have performed even worse in this IIHS small overlap one.

I agree that EuroNCAP has been very beneficial for safety in general, but I'm not convinced that there's a strong correlation between the EuroNCAP tests and similar (but different) ones like the small overlap. Manufacturers know the tests inside out at this stage, and I wouldn't be surprised if the car structures are designed to crumple correctly for specific tests, while offering much lower performance in slightly different scenarios.

Could be talking through my hat here, and haven't compared the large and small overlap test results from these cars, but it's interesting stuff.

BrianD3

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

I agree that EuroNCAP has been very beneficial for safety in general, but I'm not convinced that there's a strong correlation between the EuroNCAP tests and similar (but different) ones like the small overlap. Manufacturers know the tests inside out at this stage, and I wouldn't be surprised if the car structures are designed to crumple correctly for specific tests, while offering much lower performance in slightly different scenarios.

Could be talking through my hat here, and haven't compared the large and small overlap test results from these cars, but it's interesting stuff.

You do have a point and this is one of the criticisms that has been made against EuroNCAP. One thing that you may notice is that some cars seem to have "softer" passenger compartments in the offset test than others. The question is then asked, are some cars optimised to minimise the forces on the occupants in a 40 mph crash at the expense of passenger compartment integrity in a higher speed crash.

The ADAC and others have carried out some tests which are more severe or at different angles than the EuroNCAP ones. Eg
Golf MkV offset test but at 60 mph instead of 40 mph
Renault Laguna III offset test but at 50 mph instead of 40 mph

The Golf had very impressive strength considering the 60 mph impact but the occupants would have been dead due to high forces and the restraint systems being overwhelmed. The Laguna had considerable deformation but the occupants would likely have survived with injuries. The question could then be asked, if the Golf had been crashed at 50 mph like the Laguna, would the occupants have been better off or worse off than the Laguna occupants.

Another interesting test carried out was Ford Fiesta vs Peugeot 308 where the cars were lined up so that the longitudinal and transverse members missed each other as much as possible. This lack of crash compatibility resulted in both cars being relatively vulnerable in the test. Then there's the question of cars performing differently depending on whether they are tested as LHD or RHD.

Overall though I think EuroNCAP is excellent and these new IIHS small overlap tests are a great development. It does remind me of 1997 when EuroNCAP started. Back then there was very little objective info on car safety available to consumers. Manufacturers could make various claims which were not questioned. There was an idea that the more expensive the car, the safer it was. When the first results for mid sized cars were published it was an eye opener to see the likes of Mercedes, BMW and Saab doing badly while Volvo and Nissan did well. If I recall, back then Mercedes did not want to accept the result of the tests and tried to excuse the poor performance of the first gen C Class. Now in 2012 a C Class has again done poorly in a new crash test and this is what Mercedes said in response

As a leader in automotive safety, we have full confidence in the protection that the C-Class affords its occupants -- and less confidence in any test that doesn't reflect that

ShiresV2

On a related note these folks in Sweden compared the outcomes of 105,000 real world car crashes and rated common cars for safety based on their research.

Unsurprisingly Volvos do very well.

http://www.folksam.se/polopoly_fs/1.11226!/webbversioneng_R6546.pdf

BrianD3

The latest set of results has been published - family saloons. the best cars in this group are the Honda Accord (US) and Suzuki Kizashi. The worst are the Toyota Camry and Prius V. Most of the rest of the cars got acceptable ratings and in general this group performed better than the "midsize near luxury" group which included the Volvo S60, Audi A4, Lexus IS etc.

Videos here
http://www.youtube.com/user/iihs/videos?view=0

I haven't compared all the measurements but it looks like the Suzuki Kizashi and Volvo S60 have similar passenger compartment integrity and occupant protection in this test. No doubt many people would be surprised by this, we all know about Volvo's safety reputation but Suzuki doesn't have anything like this reputation.

Kizashi


Prius