Internet very poor after moving router. Please help!

RMWaters

Hi there,

I'd bet this has been answered a thousand times, but any help you can give me would be massively appreciated. This internet problem is doing my head in!

We recently had our router replaced by Eircom with a commercial router (Netgear). The signal from it is supposed to be stronger than a typical one. The problem is that it is at one end of the house, whereas the laptops that need the signal are in the other end of the house (probably about 18m away through walls). Now, the laptops WERE receiving signal, and I could even play Youtube videos handy enough, but the signal was weak and kept dropping.

We used to have the router halfway through the house, but apparently there was some issue with that and the Eircom technician who fixed it set it up in the one end of the house. I asked if there was any way to move it back out to the middle of the house, so it would work everywhere in the house, and he said I just needed to get a new phone cable, and even said I could get one for a few euro in Tesco that would be fine. I know you aren't supposed to have too long a cable really, but he said it wouldn't be a problem at all, so I bought a 20m cable from Harvey Norman and ran it directly from the phone access point to the middle of the house (I had to run it up through the attic, so it needed to be at least 10m long, but the choice was either 8m or 20m).

My laptop says the signal strength is good and the speed it typically around 48mbps, but I have noticed it has been considerably worse than when the router was further away from me. The easy way to notice it is that Youtube videos no longer load well enough; I have to pause and wait sometimes 3 or 4 times the length of a video for it to load.

I'm pretty sure it has to do with the length of my cable, but I am not really knowledgeable on these things at all. If anyone can help me figure out how to get the router from the end of the house to the middle of the house and have the maximum signal we can get, that'd be really appreciated!

Oh, finally, it's not just my laptop; it's everyone in the house. And I did a speed test last night. We are only getting a maximum 2mb down, but last night it was somewhere around 300kbs... http://speedtest.net/result/2025701425.png

I've included a (very!) crude pic in case I am really confusing with what I have said! Thank you for any help!

Cuddlesworth

Sounds like there is a problem with the copper going into the house and the added length is making it worse. You could try for a powerline adapter kit.

You would leave the netgear(not a great make btw) in the preferred location, plug it into one of the homeplugs, leave the other homeplug(the wifi one) at the far end. Then you name the wireless SSID(name) and password to be the same as the netgear router. The laptops will switch between them as the signal degrades.

Overheal

I've never had to test the reliability of powerline ethernet... for the same price you can get a wireless range extender such as these:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/NETGEAR+-+Universal+Wi-Fi+Range+Extender+with+4-port+Ethernet+Switch/1243081.p?id=1218240386270&skuId=1243081&st=range%20extender&cp=1&lp=1

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/NETGEAR+-+Universal+Wi-Fi+Range+Extender+with+Ethernet+port/2733324.p?id=1218349687077&skuId=2733324&st=range%20extender&cp=1&lp=2

You leave the original box where the tech left it, and where you've marked where you need it to be, thats where you place the range extender.

ED E

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Sounds like there is a problem with the copper going into the house and the added length is making it worse. You could try for a powerline adapter kit.

You would leave the netgear(not a great make btw) in the preferred location, plug it into one of the homeplugs, leave the other homeplug(the wifi one) at the far end. Then you name the wireless SSID(name) and password to be the same as the netgear router. The laptops will switch between them as the signal degrades.

Netgear are fine, its budget hardware that eircom provide thats dud.

Agree with powerlines though, use them in a three story house to great effect.

Wifi extender would work two, but bridging can be a little pernickity to set up for a not so technical person.

DublinDilbert

ED E wrote: »

Netgear are fine, its budget hardware that eircom provide thats dud.

Agree with powerlines though, use them in a three story house to great effect.

Wifi extender would work two, but bridging can be a little pernickity to set up for a not so technical person.

If the ADSL modem is working well in its current location i would tend to leave it where it is.

What you do will depend on the configuration of the house, as the guys above have said the power line adapters do work well and you could pop an ethernet to wifi bridge down that end of the house.

The house is 60ft long so i would guess its a bungalow, so i would run a CATV cable up into the attic then run it to the other end of the house and pop it out at the other end and place a bridge down there. I'd probably run two cables while i was at it, CATV is dirt cheap.

RMWaters

Hi everyone, thanks very much for your fast replies!

I'm thinking I might have to leave the box where the technician left it, unless a higher quality phone cable might help? We've been having massive issues with the Eircom broadband for months now (and I'd agree with Cuddlesworth that there is a problem with it before it even gets in to the house), and comparatively, the signal when it is plugged in at the end of the house is very good, it just isn't consistent down the other end of the house... I like the sound of the powerlines, but it is pretty expensive (I know that is an ignorant thing for someone who doesn't know what they're at to say!), and would like to try the least expensive method.

I'm interested in the CATV method. Running this along the attic, what do I put it in to at the other end? Is it a wifi range extender or something else?

Sorry for my lack of knowledge on any of this, I really appreciate all the advice!

BionicRasher

Why not just get a range extender and put it in repeat mode before you go running CAt5

something like this is dirt cheap
http://www.dabs.ie/products/edimax-ew-7228apn-wireless-n-150-range-extender-5-port-sw-7BJQ.html?src=17

RMWaters

Oh, that seems very promising! Do I pretty much just hook that in to my router and it boosts the signal? Like I say, it seems to be working fine at the end of the house, just not strong enough to make it all the way without becoming inconsistent.

BionicRasher

This is like a booster that you can plug in the far end of the house and it acts like another wifi router at the far end of the house

Cuddlesworth

tui0hcg wrote: »

Why not just get a range extender and put it in repeat mode before you go running CAt5

I'm not a fan of range extenders for a variety of reasons, mainly because of how wireless works. Drop two laptops and two phones* connected to the bridge at wireless G at 2.4ghz, coupled with a constant connection to the base station and 2mb would be at the upper edge of the bandwidth limit. Place that in a city residential area with 10+ signals active close by, at least three in the same frequency channel(or overlapping into one of the three main channels) and the bandwidth drops lower, the devices spend more energy working through the signal interference and battery life drops.

*not unreasonable now, in the future may be far more devices.

Out of the possible options, CAT5E across the roof into a wireless bridge seems like more work then necessary and would cost a similar amount to the powerline units. If it was a UPC 120mb line it would be the no1 option.

For the powerline units, I've used and tested quite a few types. The newer models are quite good now days, even through our superior mains fuse standards. Even the older cheap hardware models are a good use case for piping crap 2mb broadband in 99.9% of situations.

Extending the telephone cable I wouldn't bother with. It sounds like your on the limit for line length from the exchange, I'd say its simply the distance rather then the quality of your internal wiring. You could have been using straight cables rather then twisted but for a ADSL line, a cable over that distance shouldn't have that mush effect either way.

BionicRasher

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I'm not a fan of range extenders for a variety of reasons, mainly because of how wireless works. Drop two laptops and two phones* connected to the bridge at wireless G at 2.4ghz, coupled with a constant connection to the base station and 2mb would be at the upper edge of the bandwidth limit. Place that in a city residential area with 10+ signals active close by, at least three in the same frequency channel(or overlapping into one of the three main channels) and the bandwidth drops lower, the devices spend more energy working through the signal interference and battery life drops.

*not unreasonable now, in the future may be far more devices.

Out of the possible options, CAT5E across the roof into a wireless bridge seems like more work then necessary and would cost a similar amount to the powerline units. If it was a UPC 120mb line it would be the no1 option.

For the powerline units, I've used and tested quite a few types. The newer models are quite good now days, even through our superior mains fuse standards. Even the older cheap hardware models are a good use case for piping crap 2mb broadband in 99.9% of situations.

Extending the telephone cable I wouldn't bother with. It sounds like your on the limit for line length from the exchange, I'd say its simply the distance rather then the quality of your internal wiring. You could have been using straight cables rather then twisted but for a ADSL line, a cable over that distance shouldn't have that mush effect either way.

unless you are in a high density apartment block I would imagine that you can pick a channel that will give you a bit of space on the wireless range and I suppose it depends on what you want to spend.

The wireless extender will do a decent job 90% of the time and if needed you could run the cat5 or even cat6 for a few quid more if the wireless option is not up to scratch

RMWaters

I wouldn't be too worried about signals around me, I'm a bit out of the way and there's only a few houses around me. I get that it could still end up a problem, but it wouldn't be like apartments (yet!).

I am at the end of the exchange for sure (on the 25mbps plan but can only get a max 2mbps). I'm guessing the current router stays put in the end of the house, and then it is one of these options you guys are suggesting to reinforce the signal, pretty much?

The powerline unit sounds good, but the only thing putting me off is the price. Then again, Cuddlesworth, you mentioned there being cheap crap ones that could possibly do the trick? Would I be right in saying Cat5 is plugged directly into the computer/laptop? I'd love to stay wireless if possible (which I guess is the powerline option).

Sup08

First thing I would do is make sure the drivers are up to date on your laptops/PC's NIC/Wifi card and then change the channel on the router to exclude any interference, change it to either channel 6 or 11 (13 if available), never leave this setting at auto, which is the default.

Overheal

I suggested the range extender

Cuddles you make a valid point about interference, though lets assume Wireless N. If Eircom is still dicking with G they need to discontinue it: last thursday we just got in the first commercial unit of a Netgear Gigabit Wireless 802.11ac router. That is, 500Mbps on 2.4ghz and 500Mbps on the 5.0ghz. Either way, this is the new ****. Point being it's now at the point where G should be considered obsolete.

On signal interference woes you have a couple options: if you have an Andoroid smart device such as a tablet or a phone you can download the WiFi Analyzer app which is basically the tricorder of wifi. Or on a PC a similar utility is InSSIDer. Using that info it's pretty easy to determine what channel to use. I find my neighbors regularly use channels 1 and 12, leaving 6 and 7 all for me.

even through our superior mains fuse standards

hah!

I am told they won't work with surge protectors though and they aren't reccomended in apartment/duplex arrangements.

PogMoThoin

tui0hcg wrote: »

The wireless extender will do a decent job 90% of the time and if needed you could run the cat5 or even cat6 for a few quid more if the wireless option is not up to scratch

I disagree with this, Wireless repeaters are never worth the hassle. Wireless is half duplex, it will only pass traffic to one device at a time, in one direction at a time. Most web traffic is http which is sent using tcp, where packets are sent in groups and an acknowledgement must be received before more is sent, it's two way traffic. Packets also get lost (it's wireless, no avoiding this), requests for resends must be sent and the packet resent. This is the reason a cable will always perform many times faster than wireless, a cable does full duplex. Adding a repeater to an existing wireless network halves the throughput of the network, just by being there. Then there's the added latency they create. More than one laptop or phone connected to the repeater would bring the whole network to a crawl. It's never a good option.

Wireless is pretty crap really, even wireless "n", it should only be used when mobility is needed. Anything static should be cabled.

BionicRasher

Overheal wrote: »

I suggested the range extender

Cuddles you make a valid point about interference, though lets assume Wireless N. If Eircom is still dicking with G they need to discontinue it: last thursday we just got in the first commercial unit of a Netgear Gigabit Wireless 802.11ac router. That is, 500Mbps on 2.4ghz and 500Mbps on the 5.0ghz. Either way, this is the new ****. Point being it's now at the point where G should be considered obsolete.

On signal interference woes you have a couple options: if you have an Andoroid smart device such as a tablet or a phone you can download the WiFi Analyzer app which is basically the tricorder of wifi. Or on a PC a similar utility is InSSIDer. Using that info it's pretty easy to determine what channel to use. I find my neighbors regularly use channels 1 and 12, leaving 6 and 7 all for me. hah!

I am told they won't work with surge protectors though and they aren't reccomended in apartment/duplex arrangements.

apologies if I offended by suggesting the repeater again but just thought it was the best option for both price and set up and would be the first thing I would try before I ran cables.

AC looks great but I don't think there are too many PC's or gadgets with the capabilities of the protocol available yet

PogMoThoin

Overheal wrote: »

Cuddles you make a valid point about interference, though lets assume Wireless N. If Eircom is still dicking with G they need to discontinue it: last thursday we just got in the first commercial unit of a Netgear Gigabit Wireless 802.11ac router. That is, 500Mbps on 2.4ghz and 500Mbps on the 5.0ghz. Either way, this is the new ****. Point being it's now at the point where G should be considered obsolete.

It's very early days for "ac". Is there even a laptop or phone available that supports it yet? Much like "n", if every single device in the house isn't "n" then it falls back to "g" speeds, "ac falls back to "n" and "g". So having one "g" device in your house will bring your "ac" router to "g" speeds. 500Mbps is completely optimistic, maybe in a lab, in a Faraday tube with no interference, but never achievable IRL, it's just a little better than "n" but still does not come anywhere close to a cat5 cable.

Cuddlesworth

tui0hcg wrote: »

unless you are in a high density apartment block I would imagine that you can pick a channel that will give you a bit of space on the wireless range and I suppose it depends on what you want to spend.

The wireless extender will do a decent job 90% of the time and if needed you could run the cat5 or even cat6 for a few quid more if the wireless option is not up to scratch

Contrary to popular opinion there are only three valid 2.4ghz wireless channels. Less when you start talking about wide band wireless. But as said above by pog, wireless is half duplex, meaning a huge amount of collisions. The general rule of thumb is to reduce the available bandwidth by 66% for every device connected. Half it, if its a range extender.

RMWaters wrote: »

I am at the end of the exchange for sure (on the 25mbps plan but can only get a max 2mbps). I'm guessing the current router stays put in the end of the house, and then it is one of these options you guys are suggesting to reinforce the signal, pretty much?

You can have two wireless signals in a house. If they both have the same name, same password and are on the same network devices connected to them swap between as one signal gets worse and the other stronger.

The CAT5E option involves leaving the current router in its best spot, running a network cables between it and a wireless access point in the other end of the house(basically the same type of device, but just doing wireless). Then perfect signal across the entire house with decent broadband. The bridges cost are 50 quid plus delivery, then you have the cost and time of running and crimping the cable.

The powerline adapters plug into wall sockets and pass the network/internet across the power cables in your house. This does not effect the electricity supply, it only removes the use of a plug. You would try to not plug them in to lines with high use electronics(microwave) as they cause interference. I've not seen this to any huge degree when I use them.

In essence, they replace the CAT5E cable. The pack I linked to has a wireless access point built in to one of the units. This would be located in the far end of the house, providing full wireless signal there the same as above. Its also fairly discreet. Some people have had bad experiences with Powerline adapters, I have found that most had used the early Gen1 technology coupled with really cheap hardware. They are not that bad now days, surge protectors merely reduce the overall bandwidth available. Not a huge issue for you, as you have none. As for price, the one linked above is a good deal, considering that it includes a wireless access point in it.

RMWaters wrote: »

The powerline unit sounds good, but the only thing putting me off is the price. Then again, Cuddlesworth, you mentioned there being cheap crap ones that could possibly do the trick? Would I be right in saying Cat5 is plugged directly into the computer/laptop? I'd love to stay wireless if possible (which I guess is the powerline option).

See above

Overheal wrote: »

I suggested the range extender

Cuddles you make a valid point about interference, though lets assume Wireless N. If Eircom is still dicking with G they need to discontinue it: last thursday we just got in the first commercial unit of a Netgear Gigabit Wireless 802.11ac router. That is, 500Mbps on 2.4ghz and 500Mbps on the 5.0ghz. Either way, this is the new ****. Point being it's now at the point where G should be considered obsolete.

I am told they won't work with surge protectors though and they aren't reccomended in apartment/duplex arrangements.

Since G was the standard for 5+ years I'd hesitate to say its obsolete in terms of current use. I still encounter it regularly. My girlfriends 3GS Iphone would be a good example. I wasn't even aware that AC was out in a commercial sense.

As for powerline units, I used them in apartments they are fine. You have to encrypt the signal so a neighbour can't stumble upon your network buying similar units. Its understandable as they are in essence just acting as a switch. Not a worry for the OP as he would be back into 3 phase power before hitting any of his neighbours in the same phase for miles.

BionicRasher

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Contrary to popular opinion there are only three valid 2.4ghz wireless channels. Less when you start talking about wide band wireless. But as said above by pog, wireless is half duplex, meaning a huge amount of collisions. The general rule of thumb is to reduce the available bandwidth by 66% for every device connected. Half it, if its a range extender.

Are there not 14 channels in the 2.4Ghz range? I am using Channel 9 at home and its perfect as none of the neighbours are using it (most in the area are on Channel 6) I get near perfect speeds and am able to stream data around the house to an Xbox, Wii, HTPC, 2 Android phones, 1 Blackberry, 2 laptops and an Internet Radio and although all these are never running at the same time I have yet to have an issue when there are any major bottlenecks and all with 8Mb Vodafone broadband


Of course a cable is the best option as it will give best results – I am just suggesting as a cheap option you could get a range extender and if it isn’t working then turn it in to an access point by running some cat5/6 up in the attic between your router and the access point

Cuddlesworth

tui0hcg wrote: »

Are there not 14 channels in the 2.4Ghz range? I am using Channel 9 at home and its perfect as none of the neighbours are using it (most in the area are on Channel 6) I get near perfect speeds and am able to stream data around the house to an Xbox, Wii, HTPC, 2 Android phones, 1 Blackberry, 2 laptops and an Internet Radio and although all these are never running at the same time I have yet to have an issue when there are any major bottlenecks and all with 8Mb Vodafone broadband

There are 14 channels and each channel is a frequency point. But when you choose a channel, you don't choose a specific frequency but a range. So if all your neighbours are on channel 6 and 12, with you on 9 then your getting interference from all of them. The only three realistic channels are 1, 6 and 11/12. Interference is a hard thing to see in real life terms outside of bandwidth limitations, the cards do it all for us. But some of them are getting very stressed now days with demands placed on them that should have never happened.

As for the above set-up, put a wireless bridge on the above network and the majority of your devices on that bridge and watch the available bandwidth tank. It duplicates every signal, halving the bandwidth immediately.
G is only really capable of 20mb, so now your on 10mb. With three active devices you would be lucky to see 3mb each, with a huge amount of overhead and collisions.

BionicRasher

Yes collisions and bottlenecks would be common the more nodes that you have on the network but as I say with all the devices above I really haven’t had an issue with anything on the network so far and if the OP is just about getting a few Mb Internet connection then I don’t see why things need to be overly complex when a basic set up will work 99 times out of 100. It would be different if someone wants to stream movies and music around the house and have Sky Go running on an Xbox and transfer files between PCs and send a document to a wireless printer all at the same time but the OP is looking to boost the signal at one end of the house – thats why I suggested the cheaper option without getting overly complicated

RMWaters

It seems this might not be as big a problem for me soon. I'd been hearing this for ages, but apparently Eircom are putting the exchange just down the road from me, as opposed to the miles away it is at the moment. That should mean I'd get a lot more than 2mbps maximum in, which should make things more stable, right!?

I moved the router back to the end of the house, where it is working much better than in the middle of the house (the signal is a lot weaker and can cut out, but still a hell of a lot better than what was there before). Fingers crossed it should become more stable, and if not, I will go ahead with tui0hcg's suggestions first, and go on the results from there.

Thank you all so much! You have been amazing and informative help!!