Garda Checkpoints

Mr Simpson

Firstly, I want to say, I do not intend this as a Garda bashing thread.

Yesterday after work, I was driving through Dublin City Centre. A car broke the red light left hand turning light, narrowly missing a pedestrian crossing the road. The car also had two rear lights out.

Anyway, I was driving behind the car for a while until we reached a checkpoint, at the checkpoint I said it to the guard, but he didn't seem interested at all.

So, my question is, if he had taken my details and the details of the other car could he have done something, or is it as he said; "Theres not much I can do about it"?

goldie fish

What you should have done was taken the number of the vehicle, and made a complaint via statement. Are you willing to go to court to give evidence?
A garda cannot give a fixed penalty notice to someone just based in your say so. He's have to prepare a file for prosecution, including a statement from you and other witnesses,(if any) and go to court with it. If prosecuted, other driver will get no more than what an on the spot would have been, i.e no more than 40 euro. As it would cost a morning in court for both of you, It genuinely isn't worth the time.

Mr Simpson

goldie fish wrote: »

What you should have done was taken the number of the vehicle, and made a complaint via statement. Are you willing to go to court to give evidence?
A garda cannot give a fixed penalty notice to someone just based in your say so. He's have to prepare a file for prosecution, including a statement from you and other witnesses,(if any) and go to court with it. If prosecuted, other driver will get no more than what an on the spot would have been, i.e no more than 40 euro. As it would cost a morning in court for both of you, It genuinely isn't worth the time.

I thought about it afterwards, and I know it probably wasn't worth it but it was more the guards attitude that annoyed me than anything else. He was more interested in my tax than the fact the car in front only had rear lights when the brake lights were on. I know its only a minor thing, its just to an independent observer, lately it seem guards are being told to give priority to catching tax dodgers than other motoring offences. In the last month, I've been through 15 motor tax checkpoints, In 2 years driving, I have never been through a mandatory breathalyzing checkpoint.

I'm sorry if it seems like I'm having a go at the Garda, I'm not. After talking to a few guards in Croke park yesterday, I really saw the frustration on the frontline. It probably wasn't the individual Gardas fault.

mmcn90

mmcn90 wrote: »

lately it seem guards are being told to give priority to catching tax dodgers than other motoring offences. In the last month, I've been through 15 motor tax checkpoints, In 2 years driving, I have never been through a mandatory breathalyzing checkpoint.

Eh, no we haven't. How often do you drive between 10pm and 6am? You would be more likely to encounter MAT checkpoints between those hours.

sdanseo

foreign wrote: »

Eh, no we haven't. How often do you drive between 10pm and 6am? You would be more likely to encounter MAT checkpoints between those hours.

I'd do about 50% of my driving later at night, very frequently through town, and I've been breathalysed 3 times in 6 years driving. Not a huge frequency, given the miles I cover, I would have thought. In that time, I'd say I've been through less than 20 checkpoints of any variety too.

POGAN

Breathlizye 20 times in 3 years don't mind at all it's great to see them.

Mr Simpson

foreign wrote: »

mmcn90 wrote: »

lately it seem guards are being told to give priority to catching tax dodgers than other motoring offences. In the last month, I've been through 15 motor tax checkpoints, In 2 years driving, I have never been through a mandatory breathalyzing checkpoint.

Eh, no we haven't. How often do you drive between 10pm and 6am? You would be more likely to encounter MAT checkpoints between those hours.

Im sorry if my statement offended, it wasnt meant to, just an observation. I do about 90% of my driving during those times, so maybe I just havent come across them. I'm not trying to insult gardai, I hope to join the Gardai when the recruitment ban ends (eventually).

Mr Simpson

POGAN wrote: »

Breathlizye 20 times in 3 years don't mind at all it's great to see them.

I wouldn't mind that either, I despise drink driving. Unfortunately in my area (C & J districts) they don't seem to be as frequent.

Zambia

mmcn90 wrote: »

POGAN wrote: »

Breathlizye 20 times in 3 years don't mind at all it's great to see them.

I wouldn't mind that either, I despise drink driving. Unfortunately in my area (C & J districts) they don't seem to be as frequent.

Where was the other car when you mentioned this to the Garda?

Mr Simpson

Zambia wrote: »

Where was the other car when you mentioned this to the Garda?

About 20 yards in front of me, with a Garda car parked up beyond him with Guards in it.

Zambia

mmcn90 wrote: »

Zambia wrote: »

Where was the other car when you mentioned this to the Garda?

About 20 yards in front of me, with a Garda car parked up beyond him with Guards in it.

Was it stopped or pulling away? How easy would it be to have the driver stopped?

Mr Simpson

Zambia wrote: »

Was it stopped or pulling away? How easy would it be to have the driver stopped?

Pulling away from the checkpoint, imho it wouldnt have been hard to stop, as it had to stop at traffic lights ahead.

Zambia

mmcn90 wrote: »

Pulling away from the checkpoint, imho it wouldnt have been hard to stop, as it had to stop at traffic lights ahead.

Your disclosing 2 Offences here.

Faulty lights and Break red light.

In the case of the 1st offence the car has gone while not far away its gone. The Garda car has another purpose. If the car was pulled in for something else by another officer maybe it could be handled. However here its gone.

In the case of the second offence this would be like paying a euro for a cent return. As described above with statements etc. A lot of work for a simple ticket that would be denied and would tie up the garda for some time. When lets face it he will be caught another time and date by a Garda if he drives like that.

Now most importantly the Garda was dealing with you at the time for that was his main task. Along with the fact if he spends to long with you traffic backs up and folk start to get annoyed.

So he was probably short in his disregarding your info on the other car for the above reasons. He knows them but he does not have time on the roadside to explain all this.

Put yourself in his position and imagine what you would do?

Mr Simpson

Looking back I accept he was there to do a tax checkpoint, and thats his job. I suppose the Garda car beyond was there to catch cars who try to avoid the checkpoint, thats fair enough. There were four guards at the checkpoint. Also I fully accept it wasn't worth the bother taking a statement etc for the red light offence.

Out of interest, because I haven't seen it before, do any Gardai here have a quick look at lights etc on a car when at a standard checkpoint or are they told to purely check Tax, Insurance and NCT and any other serious offences which may present themselves?

unichall

mmcn90 wrote: »

Looking back I accept he was there to do a tax checkpoint, and thats his job. I suppose the Garda car beyond was there to catch cars who try to avoid the checkpoint, thats fair enough. There were four guards at the checkpoint. Also I fully accept it wasn't worth the bother taking a statement etc for the red light offence.

Out of interest, because I haven't seen it before, do any Gardai here have a quick look at lights etc on a car when at a standard checkpoint or are they told to purely check Tax, Insurance and NCT and any other serious offences which may present themselves?

Dont forget when a car at a checkpoint is poiting out flaws on other cars or trying to distract with general chit chat or being overly nice they can sometimes be diverting attention from themselves for obvious reasons.

Checkpoints are not usually set up with specific targets i.e tax etc. with the exception of drink drive checkpoints. Checkpoints in general are to stop cars and prosecute any offence however the focus naturally tends to fall on tax, insurance and NCT because they are what are easy to identify and pick up on as they are in plain sight

irishrgr

Have to weigh in here....we don't get to have checkpoints in TX..but pulling a car over for expired registration (car tax) inspection (NCT) is simply a legal way to stop them and "see what esle is going on". I've nicked drunken drivers, blokes with warrants and my favourite was a 2lb bag of weed literally in plain sight on the passenger seat.

If a citizen reports a violation, I may or may not intervene, as was stated above, it all depends on what else we have going on, available officers, etc. In the US, unless I observe the bad driving, I can't intervene on a report of "he was driving badly"...your word against his, no probable cause for the stop. In your case, the Garda car may have been the dedicated "chase car" for a higher offense.

I know it may come accross as a crappy attitude, you have to remember the human factor. You've been on your feet for hours, it's hot (today here is is 45 degress celsius) or cold, two thirds of the people almost hit you (being invisible in the dayglo jacket & flashing baton) as they drive up and then they give you crap for "not chasing the real criminals".

Timothy McVeigh, the Oklahoma City bomber was caught as a result of a traffic stop for an expired reg plate.....A

Eru

mmcn90 wrote: »

Out of interest, because I haven't seen it before, do any Gardai here have a quick look at lights etc on a car when at a standard checkpoint or are they told to purely check Tax, Insurance and NCT and any other serious offences which may present themselves?

we are not told to deal with any specific incident and most checkpoints are setup by Gardai on the beat at random because its a quiet night and they feel like actually doing some work instead of just walking around aimlessly.

Thats also why you see ten times more 'normal' checkpoints than mat ones, mat ones require Gardai with specific training and a specific pre-planned order from a senior officer compared to any Garda just getting a bit bored so throwing up a checkpoint to see who he can see coming and going.

Also try to remember, regardless of the purpose, a drunk can still be arrested on suspicion of drink driving.

in regards how many you go through, when your on Oconnell Street the checkpoint could be on Capel Street, when your on Capel Street it could be on Parnell Street, when your on Parnell Street it could be on Marlborough Street and thats only in the C district. in the J it could be even more as its a bigger district, outside the Ceders, at any stage of the Howth road, in and around any of the estates or St Anns or down towards Bull Island and the Coast road.

Plenty of roads but not plenty of Gardai I'm afraid.

newuser89

What would you do if you pulled over a learner driver at 3 in the morning driving on there own
They did nothing wrong but were just passing thru the checkpoint
Because the story's I've heard differ from what policeman they come across

Eru

newuser89 wrote: »

What would you do if you pulled over a learner driver at 3 in the morning driving on there own
They did nothing wrong but were just passing thru the checkpoint
Because the story's I've heard differ from what policeman they come across

12000 Gardai so I assume 12000 answers to that question, which sounds pretty loaded to me but then you only 'heard' what the Gardai supposedly said and did.

And they are doing something wrong, its a permit to learn, not a temporary license to drive.

newuser89

But surely you pull over learner drivers on there own most days
In your experience would they just get a warning or is it a fine straight away

Eru

newuser89 wrote: »

But surely you pull over learner drivers on there own most days
In your experience would they just get a warning or is it a fine straight away

Whats the point in warning someone who has been warned or fined before? Individual situations merit individual decisions.

newuser89

I'm just wondering what I should expect if I'm stopped
I very rarely drive on my own
But tonight I have too because I've to work
I know I should do the lessons but it's so expensive
I've been driving a year and I've have never gone through a checkpoint
I know it's goin to happen on the way home now lol

Mr Simpson

Thanks for the answers and feedback, its been very informative. I still think it would be nice to see more MAT checkpoints though. I know J District is big, but through work I cover upwards of 300 km per week in that district alone, and have never seen one. Have they been affected by cutbacks? ie. Less trained Gardai, less equipment?

source

mmcn90 wrote: »

Thanks for the answers and feedback, its been very informative. I still think it would be nice to see more MAT checkpoints though. I know J District is big, but through work I cover upwards of 300 km per week in that district alone, and have never seen one. Have they been affected by cutbacks? ie. Less trained Gardai, less equipment?

They still happen, you may drive upwards of 300km per week in that district, but if for arguments sake, I took that figure as a 5 day working week on an 8 hour day. That only averages out at 60km a day, you're only on the road for 8 hours and there's another 16 hours in the day, mat checkpoints can pop up for 15/20 mins in one location and then move to another depending on orders that day. I always say to people that just because they don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

There's other factors too, the working unit may not have the time to do a mat due to high call volumes. The working senior officer may like to focus on public order, or theft etc... There's too many reasons to list as to why you see more standard cp's than mat. But trust me they are out there.

Mr Simpson

Well, I finally encountered a MAT checkpoint this evening on my way home from a party. Stopped on Alfie Byrne Road and breathalyzed, even had time for a quick chat with the Garda, absolute gent. Good to see them out and about.

.243

irishrgr wrote: »

Timothy McVeigh, the Oklahoma City bomber was caught as a result of a traffic stop for an expired reg plate.....A

wasnt it the terroists as well that tried blowing up the airport in scotland caught from a motorway anpr reg check too ???

King Ludvig

Some hard facts re MAT checkpoints:

There were 71,122 checkpoints conducted in
2011 compared to 57,523 checkpoints in 2010,
an increase of 24%. At these checkpoints in 2011,
538,392 breath tests were carried out compared
to 565,132 in 2010. On average, in 2011, 1 in
492 drivers (0.2%) tested at a checkpoint were
positive for alcohol or refused/failed to provide
a sample. This ratio is trending downward from
0.25% in 2010.

http://www.garda.ie/Documents/User/Annual%20Report%202011%20English.pdf (p. 18)

Over half a million people breath tested (+ those breathalysed after being pulled over) in one year is fantastic work, well done folks.

My own personal experience has seen me breathalysed 3 times in four years of driving approx 15k p/a. Once around 2am, once around midnight and once at around 12 midday. It's great to see them.