Dublin Bus Inspectors

brightboyalert

3 out of 5 mornings last week there was bus inspectors on my route (39/39a).

Personally I welcome this as I always pay the correct fair.

bc dub

Yeah I saw one last week on a 39. In the last 10 months, I can get up to 8 buses daily, this is the second time i've seen one.

As a matter of interest, how do bus conductors check leap cards? It doesn't seem like it holds the information adequate to prove to a conductor you paid the correct fair.

brightboyalert

I assume when the conductor scans the leap card it shows where you have touched-on and how much you have paid.

bc dub

Yeah possibly, I just think the cards are a bit 'flimsy' so storing such locations seems a bit out of its reach.

markpb

bc dub wrote: »

Yeah possibly, I just think the cards are a bit 'flimsy' so storing such locations seems a bit out of its reach.

They're anything but flimsy. It would be trivial to store the stage number (I'm sure they do) and the cards already store the last ten transactions - you can view them at any Luas TVM or by asking a DB driver.

The_Wrecker

bc dub wrote: »

Yeah possibly, I just think the cards are a bit 'flimsy' so storing such locations seems a bit out of its reach.

I can print your info on the ticket machine, surprised how much that little bit of plastic can hold/hide.

bc dub

Mystery solved! There goes my lifelong under paying bus fare dream

bmaxi

The_Wrecker wrote: »

I can print your info on the ticket machine, surprised how much that little bit of plastic can hold/hide.

Isn't that what made billionaires of the guys in Silicon Valley?
On the topic of Inspectors, when I worked for DCS they were lurking around every corner, now they are rarely seen. Personally I think it has to do with the demise of two man buses, everybody knew there were a few crooks operating at that time so DB probably feels the threat to revenue is not as great now, even on the heavily loaded routes.

Victor

bmaxi wrote: »

Isn't that what made billionaires of the guys in Silicon Valley?
On the topic of Inspectors, when I worked for DCS they were lurking around every corner, now they are rarely seen. Personally I think it has to do with the demise of two man buses, everybody knew there were a few crooks operating at that time so DB probably feels the threat to revenue is not as great now, even on the heavily loaded routes.

No so much OPO, but fare boxes - they only have to keep an eye on one side of the equation now.

The_Wrecker

bmaxi wrote: »

Isn't that what made billionaires of the guys in Silicon Valley?
On the topic of Inspectors, when I worked for DCS they were lurking around every corner, now they are rarely seen. Personally I think it has to do with the demise of two man buses, everybody knew there were a few crooks operating at that time so DB probably feels the threat to revenue is not as great now, even on the heavily loaded routes.

More than just cash, the rapid increase of Tesco style 'Buy one get one free' social welfare passes which every runner for a bus seems to equiped with.
Too many inspectors just sit in depots handing out defect dockets in the morning and awaiting sleepy drivers to phone in late ~ clerical duties.
Many believe a few crooks advanced the ladder to the spoken grade and higher!

corktina

Conductors ?

SHOVELLER

While there is definitely abuse with the social welfare passes I dont see the need for bus inspectors at all.

If people are trying to cheat on fares surely that is up to the driver to determine the fare.

markpb

SHOVELLER wrote: »

If people are trying to cheat on fares surely that is up to the driver to determine the fare.

It's just as well those good for nawt drivers are sitting there doing nothing. Now they can memorise the cash fare paid by every passenger and ensure they de-bus at the correct location :-)

SHOVELLER

markpb wrote: »

It's just as well those good for nawt drivers are sitting there doing nothing. Now they can memorise the cash fare paid by every passenger and ensure they de-bus at the correct location :-)

I've seen where a driver stopped the bus and got the passenger to de-bus at the correct location!

The_Wrecker

SHOVELLER wrote: »

I've seen where a driver stopped the bus and got the passenger to de-bus at the correct location!

Not many these days.
You may sit on mine for the duration.

bmaxi

The_Wrecker wrote: »

Many believe a few crooks advanced the ladder to the spoken grade and higher!

I could name a few. As the saying goes, "set a thief to catch a thief".

SandyfordGuy

There needs to be more inspectors really not less. Although a flat fare and proper smart cards would render fare evasion virtually dead. Any money lost from rounding fares up to one value would be close to be being recovered b the virtual end of fare evasion as by having a flat fare, underpaying simply won't be possible.

BenShermin

SHOVELLER wrote: »

If people are trying to cheat on fares surely that is up to the driver to determine the fare.

Maybe you should try driving the 27 or the 40 bus in Dublin and get back to us on how you get on with kicking passengers off your bus?

Terrontress

BenShermin wrote: »

SHOVELLER wrote: »

If people are trying to cheat on fares surely that is up to the driver to determine the fare.

Maybe you should try driving the 27 or the 40 bus in Dublin and get back to us on how you get on with kicking passengers off your bus?

At the end of the day, it is only money. The driver should sit in his cab, not leave it and if he sees any criminal behaviour, alert his control. If a Garda car catches the bus then fine but otherwise drive on like nothing has happened.

I suppose if someone vulnerable is being attacked then the bus driver has the same dilemma as any decent person, to assist or not. But fare evasion, vandalism to the bus or else flashing out the window should not be challenged.

To be honest, the drivers should operate the rear doors, where present, so the scumbags don't need to pass by them a second time! Get them down the stoors and out the door at their stop in as efficient a manner as possible!

SHOVELLER

BenShermin wrote: »

Maybe you should try driving the 27 or the 40 bus in Dublin and get back to us on how you get on with kicking passengers off your bus?

I was just saying I had seen it before. As mentioned a flat fare would stamp this out.

bk

Inspectors aren't necessary if they switched to a high single cash fare (e.g. €3) in conjunction with tag-on and tag-off with leap and the introduction of leap style free travel pass cards with tag-on by the driver side required.

You would pretty much eliminate all fare evasion overnight.

corktina

I dont want to upset anyone, but I always got the impression when I was associated with National Bus Co in the UK that Inspectors were there to check up on the Drivers as much as the Passengers... or is DB fiddle-proof?

bc dub

bk wrote: »

Inspectors aren't necessary if they switched to a high single cash fare (e.g. €3) in conjunction with tag-on and tag-off with leap and the introduction of leap style free travel pass cards with tag-on by the driver side required.

You would pretty much eliminate all fare evasion overnight.

Yeah I saw that in use before. It was $2.50 (i think) and that got you a ticket that could be used on any other buses for 90 minutes. The majority of people used monthly passes and or leap style cards.

LXFlyer

corktina wrote: »

I dont want to upset anyone, but I always got the impression when I was associated with National Bus Co in the UK that Inspectors were there to check up on the Drivers as much as the Passengers... or is DB fiddle-proof?

Well given the money goes into a locked safe that drivers have no access to I would suggest that there is little risk that drivers are "on the make"?

dfx-

bk wrote: »

Inspectors aren't necessary if they switched to a high single cash fare (e.g. €3) in conjunction with tag-on and tag-off with leap and the introduction of leap style free travel pass cards with tag-on by the driver side required.

You would pretty much eliminate all fare evasion overnight.

Fake passes, cards without ID..

Victor

dfx- wrote: »

Fake passes, cards without ID..

If the ID is the ticket and it need electronic validation, things become difficult to fake.

bk

dfx- wrote: »

Fake passes, cards without ID..

Like Victor said:

- Make the free travel pass a leap card that requires validation.
- Put photo id on this leap card
- Allow this card to only be validated at the validator next to the driver, so the driver can easily ask to check the id.

While it may not totally eliminate free travel pass fraud, it would massively reduce it. No more fake passes made out of cardboard, they won't validate.

The only type of fraud possible, would be a person with a valid pass, giving it to their friend to use or taking it off their granny, etc.

But with the ID on the card and people forced to validate by the driver, it would be easier for the driver to keep an eye on.

Also free passes that are reported lost or stolen can be black listed on the machines and therefore become useless. You could also black list cards of deceased people.

I think all this would reduce free travel pass fraud by about 90% Certainly way better then we have today and a far better amount then any inspectors could hope to reduce fraud by.

You could do the same with student, child passes, etc.

bmaxi

bk wrote: »

Like Victor said:

- Make the free travel pass a leap card that requires validation.
- Put photo id on this leap card
- Allow this card to only be validated at the validator next to the driver, so the driver can easily ask to check the id.

While it may not totally eliminate free travel pass fraud, it would massively reduce it. No more fake passes made out of cardboard, they won't validate.

The only type of fraud possible, would be a person with a valid pass, giving it to their friend to use or taking it off their granny, etc.

But with the ID on the card and people forced to validate by the driver, it would be easier for the driver to keep an eye on.


Also free passes that are reported lost or stolen can be black listed on the machines and therefore become useless. You could also black list cards of deceased people.

I think all this would reduce free travel pass fraud by about 90% Certainly way better then we have today and a far better amount then any inspectors could hope to reduce fraud by.

You could do the same with student, child passes, etc.

The opportunity to do this is there with the introduction of new PPS cards but AFAIK it's not being taken that far. Is this another example of CS incompetence? It seems everything we do in this country is half baked, more work for Government consultants and more expense for the taxpayer.

dublinbusdude

There was 3 Bus Inspectors on the 39a when I got on at Blackhall Place this afternoon as the passagers something wrong with their Free Travel Pass (me thinks its was a copy). Dont know the story but I havn't seen any in about 3 to 4 years ago

AlekSmart

dublinbusdude wrote: »

There was 3 Bus Inspectors on the 39a when I got on at Blackhall Place this afternoon as the passagers something wrong with their Free Travel Pass (me thinks its was a copy). Dont know the story but I havn't seen any in about 3 to 4 years ago

It's fair (:)) to say that the issue of DSP Free Travel Pass abuse is being treated (by the DSP) in a very low key manner.

The Bus Atha Cliath Revenue Control Team that Dublinbusdude encountered will go through the motions of recording the details supplied by the suspected offender and confiscating the document in question.

However,it would appear that the DSP remain remarkably reluctant to institute any form of legal proceedings against even those caught blatantly abusing the Free Travel Scheme's conditions.

With Dublin Bus now encountering ever an worsening financial situation,the ease with which the committed fraudster can operate is now becoming quite a talking point internally.

I am minded of a 1994 Hot Press quote made by a Summerhill Community Worker,which I feel is very relevant today in terms of Government policy regarding DSP benefits...

http://www.hotpress.com/archive/503365.html

“If you’re unemployed, they give you unemployment assistance. But I wish they didn’t. Because there’d be a ****in’ revolution in this country. Unemployment assistance buys off the revolution. It’s just a means of givin’ people just enough to stop them reactin’ against the system. The Albert Reynolds’ of this world, if they had their way you’d get **** all. But they know. Just give them enough, enough to survive on, or we’ll be ****in’ gone.”

• Summerhill community worker Paddy Malone explains the politics of inner city life

Some today would argue that the Free Travel Scheme is one of several such DSP schemes now being used as this safety-valve.

One major problem which continues to face Dublin Bus and latterly Veolia/Luas is the preception that nobody owns Public Transport and therefore one can do what one likes on board its vehicles.

I note in recent days some less than positive references to the "New Improved" Buis Routes 27 & 40 in the freesheets,to the effect that they now appear to run mainly to facilitate substance abusers and assorted other low-grade criminals rather than "Normal" folk.

Public Transport operators who find themselves in this situation,can impliment as many "Network Reviews" as they like,but once the ordinary Fare Paying customer loses confidence in the service then the situation becomes commercially fatal-FAST.

Dub13

The best thing Dublin bus could do to protect revenue is get a coin dispenser (or whatever its called) that counts the cash as it goes in.From talking to a number of drivers over the years they say this is a huge prob,they reckon loads of people just lump in a load of coins and they are aware the driver cant really count it.

AlekSmart

Dub13 wrote: »

The best thing Dublin bus could do to protect revenue is get a coin dispenser (or whatever its called) that counts the cash as it goes in.From talking to a number of drivers over the years they say this is a huge prob,they reckon loads of people just lump in a load of coins and they are aware the driver cant really count it.

I beg to differ.

The vast majority of my daily cash-paying customers are essentially honest in the amount they tender...ie: if they ask for a €1.40 they put in €1.40.

That is not the important issue....however,paying €1.40 and then travelling from darkest suburbia to An Lár IS an issue and one which nothing other than active inspection can combat.

As bk and others point out,there IS an easy fix......but this is Ireland and the fix just is'nt Irish enough so we are doomed to stumble along in perpetuity playing out a nonsensical screenplay.....:rolleyes: